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bagel_

MotD Date Found - 2/26/1932 UPDATED w/ Confusion

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Well, I've found something in the escape plan that confirms the exact date our map takes place. The escape plan seems to be in a diary, right? And the diary appears to be Al Arlington's, because of the "REMEMBER THIS AL DON'T FORGET!" at the top. Either that or they're sharing it. But none the matter. One would date a diary, yes? Well, why didn't he/they date his/theirs? Oh wait. He/they did.

Feb 26, 1932.

Looked up the date on Google. Nothing really happened in 1932, however, the same day in 1933, the ceremony for the beginning of construction on the Golden Gate Bridge occurred.

Construction began on January 5, 1933. This was followed by the official ground breaking ceremony held on February 26, 1933, at nearby Crissy Field (now part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area). The start of construction was met with great delight. A celebration at nearby Crissy Field went on for hours with at least 100,000 people in attendance. The San Francisco newspaper wrote the next day, “Two hundred and fifty carrier pigeons, provided by the San Francisco Racing Pigeon Club to carry the message of groundbreaking to every corner of California, were so frightened by the surging human mass that small boys had to crawl into their compartments in the bridge replica to shoo them out with sticks.”

http://goldengatebridge.org/research/GroundBreaking.php

That must be a 2 in the date. So if construction started the year after, then why do we see the bridge in MotD?

Well, to put it frankly, that can't be the Golden Gate Bridge. So here's my question for you: What could it be? Maybe the effects of a time rift? A building being built? Docks? Either whatever we can come up with, or 3arc doesn't have their facts right. Which is unlikely.

-bagel_, out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE.

For those of you who haven't been reading the replies, or are late to the party, some good points were made about this recently, and I had put in some definitely false information. I apologize in advance for being ignorant to some of these, especially you, EJ.

The Golden Gate Bridge is 100% confirmed to be in the map.

We can use this to pinpoint the approximate time period this takes place in.

ETEI2NAL407 did a really good job on this.

I have been researching this and have some insights.

Here is a timeline for the life of the GGB

As I was skimming through these, I found one entry that perked my intrigue.

"April 1934: Ray Strong’s panoramic depiction of the Golden Gate Bridge under construction pays tribute to the feat of engineering required to span the Golden Gate Strait."

In April 1934, Ray Strong painted

Sorry, the file was too large to crop properly here...

So, there is just a lone section of the familiar bridge out in the water, very close to the images we are seeing of MotD. It's becoming clear that during the construction, that main piece was more than likely a huge starting point for the rest of the bridge.

As I've been reading this timeline, I've come to think that when they were constructing they started with these lone pieces, known as towers, and the following entry:

"June 18, 1936: Construction of the Bridge’s suspended structure began..."

leads me to believe that the bridge would have resembled the MotD images until this point.

We do see cables in the MotD images though and perhaps our timeline will tell us when the cables were ran? Yes. It does.

"August 1, 1935: For the first time since construction started, on August 2, 1935, the Golden Gate Strait was to be closed to shipping. Shipping was to be held up for 15 minutes while bridge workers strung the first tramway cable between the San Francisco and Marin towers as part of the operations to ready the span for the construction of footwalks (catwalks) that had to be constructed before cable spinning could begin. Shipping would be held while a barge sunk a one-inch cable to the 350-foot bottom and the cable was hoisted into the air between the towers."

So, if Alcatraz was not a federal prison until 1934 and the cabling for the GGB started in 1935, but the suspended structure of the bridge began constrcution in 1936, we'd have to place MotD between those dates.

Per wikipedia: Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary opened August 11th, 1934

Per the timeline: GGB cabling construction began August 1st, 1935

and GGB suspended structure construction began June 18th, 1936

MotD must occur between August 1st, 1935 and June 18th, 1936.

This works out, assuming that the bridge is not complete in MotD, which it appears to be here:

However, we can't be sure yet. We do see completed cable construction, and they appear to go all the way down to where the suspended structure would be. Maybe it is finished. If it was, we'd be at year 1937 minimum. However, FatedTiten also pointed out something very important.

This could have originally been an escape plan to just get off the island in general.

Also, another reason I can't see this being correct is that we have a hellhound in the map. Hellhounds weren't born until the Fluffy incident, which happened in the 40s.

So, this would mean our map is dated after the 40's, meaning construction = finished for this.

However, the most mind boggling part is something Shooter brought in.

Alcatraz was NOT a federal penitentiary in 1932. it wasn't until 1934 that it was opened as a penitentary. So how could an inmate make these blueprints in 1932 if the prison wasn't even opened until 1934. Before 34, it was a military prison, but we know these mobsters we play as wouldn't be in there for military crimes. The dates don't add up.

Either Treyarch royally screwed up these dates, or there's something yet to be found that will make things make sense.

So, this means that this escape plan to get away from the prison was made before it was a prison...? As he said, maybe 3arc just got their dates wrong.

Whatever it may be, keep it comin', guys.

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Oh my! Would you look at that down there!

This was obviously posted in 1776!

July 4, 1776

NOPE.

Just because you see a date written down doesn't mean that is the actual date.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but which is more likely? Someone wrote something on an old piece of paper, or the golden gate bridge freaking tore through a rift in the time space continuum?

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Donor

Don't answer that...

And Im still firmly beleiving this map is held outside of time... It makes no sense to have a map that far back.. It wouldn't effect the present situation at all... and to have new perks developed past this time (such as stamin up, phd Flopper, deadshot, whos who, tombstone, or mule kick) just there? (Given we don't have confirmation on these perks, but come on! One of these will be there... They have to be) It just makes sense for things to be outside of time... Otherwise you have a mass amount of conflicting dates! None of which can be right, due to one fact or the other! Outside of time:Outside of locked dates... You can all be right...

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Don't answer that...

And Im still firmly beleiving this map is held outside of time... It makes no sense to have a map that far back.. It wouldn't effect the present situation at all... and to have new perks developed past this time (such as stamin up, phd Flopper, deadshot, whos who, tombstone, or mule kick) just there? (Given we don't have confirmation on these perks, but come on! One of these will be there... They have to be) It just makes sense for things to be outside of time... Otherwise you have a mass amount of conflicting dates! None of which can be right, due to one fact or the other! Outside of time:Outside of locked dates... You can all be right...

Unless this is not a story map, they could very well want to keep the story going over a 4th game

So they make a side map that is still pretty big and cool so fans are not disappointed.

BUT, I could be totally wrong and there will be a side mission, other than building the plane

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That doesn't mean that's the date of when the map takes place. Those plans could have been written YEARS before. All this confirms is that the map takes place sometime AFTER the date above.

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Oh my! Would you look at that down there!

This was obviously posted in 1776!

July 4, 1776

NOPE.

Just because you see a date written down doesn't mean that is the actual date.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but which is more likely? Someone wrote something on an old piece of paper, or the golden gate bridge freaking tore through a rift in the time space continuum?

Okay, well look next to the date. Is that not the symbol for Afterlife that he "can't get out of his head?" I honestly don't believe this is a rift. The idea of one isn't ridiculous either, considering in Die Rise, we are told to mend the rift. I put it in there to hear other's theories about it. I am leaning towards docks on this, now. Plus, why would we receive something like that, but it happened to be someone else's diary? There is zero evidence to prove that. My evidence is the symbol, the similar handwriting, same color written on the paper, the fact that the date would be the only thing written by someone else on the paper, and the fact that it'd be someone else's diary would be very misleading. We should at least receive something else with it before we say that. Don't worry, you don't sound like a jerk, and I understand where you're coming from :)

...Or this page in the diary is years old..

Valid point. This idea also ties in with the fact that he wrote "REMEMBER THIS." My understanding was that they would be making these plans to get away from the zombies, but it also could work for a jailbreak. I've just been thinking it's a blueprint they've pitched together to get off the island while they are on the run.

Don't answer that...

And Im still firmly beleiving this map is held outside of time... It makes no sense to have a map that far back.. It wouldn't effect the present situation at all... and to have new perks developed past this time (such as stamin up, phd Flopper, deadshot, whos who, tombstone, or mule kick) just there? (Given we don't have confirmation on these perks, but come on! One of these will be there... They have to be) It just makes sense for things to be outside of time... Otherwise you have a mass amount of conflicting dates! None of which can be right, due to one fact or the other! Outside of time:Outside of locked dates... You can all be right...

Well, this map existing so far back could possibly explain other things happening. Maybe the first found 115, or eyes changing, or even who was originally in charge. I just have trouble with the idea of it not being in the storyline. But, the possibility sure is out there.

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Donor

Being outside of time can greatly effect the storyline... There are no rules where there is no time my freind...

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While I'm still not sure on the date, I don't believe this is correct. Remember that these men have been at Alcatraz for years. This could have originally been an escape plan to just get off the island in general.

Also, another reason I can't see this being correct is that we have a hellhound in the map. Hellhounds weren't born until the Fluffy incident, which happened in the 40s.

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Donor

There's only one date we should care about right now and that's April 16th, 2013.

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In prison you have nothing but time. It makes a lot more sense that this plan was conceived on the date written and perhaps the author of that plan amended his "notes" with all the afterlife stuff later. It could have been an ongoing thing. Keep in mind that also in prison your supplies are limited, so you may only have a few sheets of paper...It's not like you can just go to an office supply store for more.

The plans could have been written a good amount of time before we ever see them. It could be 1-2 years in the future from the date on the plans, but at least this date gives us a closer timeframe. I'm sure it's within 5 years of the date.

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Donor

There's only one date we should care about right now and that's April 16th, 2013.

The gospel of zombies.... Praise be richtofen....

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Donor

Ill just copy and paste what I wrote about this date from a different thread. Just my opinion, but the date on the note doesn't make any sense. See Point #2 below:

Onto this date on the note:

In the last day, this new date has been brought to light. February 26, 1932. A few things to keep in mind with this date:

1. This does not give us a date of the map, but merely the date when the plans were made. It's impossible to tell when the date was written on this piece of paper, or how old the plans themselves are. I don't know about you, but I imagine making up such detailed plans to escape a prison takes lots of time, maybe even years. Those doesn't make up for the 1941 date that correlates with the Water Tower, but still. My point is the date on the piece of paper is subjective.

But most importantly...

2. Alcatraz was NOT a federal penitentiary in 1932. it wasn't until 1934 that it was opened as a penitentary. So how could an inmate make these blueprints in 1932 if the prison wasn't even opened until 1934. Before 34, it was a military prison, but we know these mobsters we play as wouldn't be in there for military crimes. The dates don't add up.

Either Treyarch royally screwed up these dates, or there's something yet to be found that will make things make sense.

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I have been researching this and have some insights.

Here is a timeline for the life of the GGB

As I was skimming through these, I found one entry that perked my intrigue.

"April 1934: Ray Strong’s panoramic depiction of the Golden Gate Bridge under construction pays tribute to the feat of engineering required to span the Golden Gate Strait."

In April 1934, Ray Strong painted

Sorry, the file was too large to crop properly here...

So, there is just a lone section of the familiar bridge out in the water, very close to the images we are seeing of MotD. It's becoming clear that during the construction, that main piece was more than likely a huge starting point for the rest of the bridge.

As I've been reading this timeline, I've come to think that when they were constructing they started with these lone pieces, known as towers, and the following entry:

"June 18, 1936: Construction of the Bridge’s suspended structure began..."

leads me to believe that the bridge would have resembled the MotD images until this point.

We do see cables in the MotD images though and perhaps our timeline will tell us when the cables were ran? Yes. It does.

"August 1, 1935: For the first time since construction started, on August 2, 1935, the Golden Gate Strait was to be closed to shipping. Shipping was to be held up for 15 minutes while bridge workers strung the first tramway cable between the San Francisco and Marin towers as part of the operations to ready the span for the construction of footwalks (catwalks) that had to be constructed before cable spinning could begin. Shipping would be held while a barge sunk a one-inch cable to the 350-foot bottom and the cable was hoisted into the air between the towers."

So, if Alcatraz was not a federal prison until 1934 and the cabling for the GGB started in 1935, but the suspended structure of the bridge began constrcution in 1936, we'd have to place MotD between those dates.

Per wikipedia: Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary opened August 11th, 1934

Per the timeline: GGB cabling construction began August 1st, 1935

and GGB suspended structure construction began June 18th, 1936

MotD must occur between August 1st, 1935 and June 18th, 1936.

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Nice finds there ETEI2NAL. Lots of history

The 25th, February 1932 is an interesting date.

"Adolf Hitler obtains the German citizenship by naturalization, opening the opportunity for him to run in the 1932 election for Reichsprsident."

Hitler had formally renounced his Austrian citizenship on 7 April 1925, but at the time did not acquire German citizenship. For almost seven years he was stateless, unable to run for public office, and faced the risk of deportation. On 25 February 1932, the interior minister of Brunswick, who was a member of the NSDAP, appointed Hitler as administrator for the state's delegation to the Reichsrat in Berlin, making Hitler a citizen of Brunswick, and thus of Germany.

There is also something about the date of October 29, 1929 on the paper "Brooklyn Daily Eagle - Wall Street in Panic as Stocks Crash". I think somewhere in here is the Keyword for decoding the cipher.

Though I really don't think this era is the setting of the map. I hope we can find out, but I highly doubt it.

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Moderator

but which is more likely? Someone wrote something on an old piece of paper, or the golden gate bridge freaking tore through a rift in the time space continuum?

To me it really looks like Treyarch is starting to pull the "time travel creates parallel universes" card.

So I wouldn't shoot bagel's theory down just yet.

But let me ask you this question.

Which option sounds more interesting?

Someone wrote something on an old piece of paper or the golden gate bridge freaking tore through a rift in the time space continuum? :P

Yes this will most likely be completely untrue.

But I am on team bagel. :3

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I understand that quantum stuff is really cool nowadays and some of the more popular games use alternate realities well (Assassin's Creed), but I honestly think the whole alternate reality notion for CoD Zombies has only come up as a result of their failures when it comes to being historically accurate.

Its an epidemic I notice with a lot of great stories...They start out awesome and get you so engaged, then the author doesn't know how to end it. Maybe because they've exhausted their creative efforts, or maybe because they (like their readers) have fallen in love with their characters so much that they subconsciously don't want to end the story, thus they don't ever find the proper mindset to adequately finish it, because they really don't want to.

I think CoD Zombies suffers the same fate, but some historical inaccuracies have lead this story down a path of, "Well, we can just make it up as we go along."

I'm only venting...I love CoD Zombies, but the incongruencies annoy me. I want this to be an awesome story, but I've been let down before (Lost) and I'm a bit weary of awesome storylines. Either my fears are true and they're just making it up as they go along now, or they have a plan, the incongruencies are by design, and they're going to deliver some epic story in the end that fits neatly together with everything else.

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Maybe that's just the day the plans were drawn up but they didn't execute them untill the bridge was finished and the zombie outbreak began in alcatraz

...But Alcatraz wasn't a federal penitentiary until 1934. So, why would you draft an escape plan from a place that you haven't been imprisoned in yet?

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Donor

I understand that quantum stuff is really cool nowadays and some of the more popular games use alternate realities well (Assassin's Creed), but I honestly think the whole alternate reality notion for CoD Zombies has only come up as a result of their failures when it comes to being historically accurate.

Its an epidemic I notice with a lot of great stories...They start out awesome and get you so engaged, then the author doesn't know how to end it. Maybe because they've exhausted their creative efforts, or maybe because they (like their readers) have fallen in love with their characters so much that they subconsciously don't want to end the story, thus they don't ever find the proper mindset to adequately finish it, because they really don't want to.

I think CoD Zombies suffers the same fate, but some historical inaccuracies have lead this story down a path of, "Well, we can just make it up as we go along."

I'm only venting...I love CoD Zombies, but the incongruencies annoy me. I want this to be an awesome story, but I've been let down before (Lost) and I'm a bit weary of awesome storylines. Either my fears are true and they're just making it up as they go along now, or they have a plan, the incongruencies are by design, and they're going to deliver some epic story in the end that fits neatly together with everything else.

I totally feel where you're coming from. Dealing with the story for the last two years, I've had my ups and downs with it. The frustration with it always comes from the fact some things simply do not add up. They just don't. There will always be parts of this story that we will never understand.

The reason for this, like you stated, is because Treyarch was making things up as they go along in the beginning. The community has basically built the story for the first couple years. Treyarch has never had a planned storyline up until the Black Ops DLC maps, so any maps before that will always result in unanswered questions. Black Ops 2, however, might be a different story. From my experience, it seems Treyarch does have somewhat of a planned storyline. We've seen them fill in the gaps from radios on CotD and Moon. I've got high hopes that we will have somewhat of an established story at the end of all this.

Unfortunately, there will always be incongruencies in zombies, we've just gotta use common sense and a little bit of creativity to explain them.

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Donor

...But Alcatraz wasn't a federal penitentiary until 1934. So, why would you draft an escape plan from a place that you haven't been imprisoned in yet?

This has bothered me too, and it could be possible the creative team did not do their homework on it properly, but any thought's on this are best left until we at least go into the game first.

It could be very possible that these escape plans were drawn up by previous prisoners, and are found by our new group.

This could explain the dates, but again, it is all mere speculation at the minute.

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