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BaronVonBeau    11

there is lots of talk about the red eyes in Gorod Krovi, some youtubers are saying it doesn't matter some are saying its massive. I was putting some thought into this yesterday and what if, Nikolai 1.0 is in control of the zombies, what if the red eyed zombies are Nikolai's?

 

I'm sure i have missed plenty of facts while coming up with this theory, but my evidence is as follows.

 

1. in the opening of the trailer we see 'Belinski Square' signage, this is what set me off. we know that originally Nikolai was working his way up the political ranks in Moscow, he was marrying women with wealth and power to take steps up the ladder. at some point Stalin decides he is jealous or worried about Nikolai's climb to power so ships him off to fight on the front lines where he is captured by 935. What if in this universe that divide between Nik and Stalin never came up and he was actually put in charge of the military / ascension group!

 

2. Red eyes on zombies and the robots - soviets/communists famous for the colour red. 

 

3. Nikolai is mentioned in Mob of the Dead.

 

4. We know from what has been previously said that Nikolai 1.0 will never go down without a fight, we know there is no way it'll be as easy as killing Tank or Takeo, so what if Nikolai 1.0 is using the zombies/robots/Brutus type guys to try stop the crew from killing him. 

 

side note. we know that the original blood vials came from Mob of the Dead Characters so makes sense that the backup plan be set in motion in this map which is seemingly the same universe.

 

I'm sure i have more to add but in a hurry. I  would absolutely love to hear what everyone else thinks even if you think i'm horrifically wrong but let me know!

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jiipee95    35

Hopefully the EE will have a badass boss fight against Nikolai at the end... but just the EE. I want it to be optional like DE boss fight.

 

The red eyes... MOTD zombies had red eyes too so I guess there's gonna be some sort of connection to that map in Gorod Krovi. Alsothe fact that Nikolai is mentioned in MOTD.

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Lauren    15

I hate that xbox has to wait a whole month longer than ps4!

 

But the electric wonder weapon looked pretty cool. The wonder weapons are always my favorite part of a map.

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Castun50    16

@MrDalekJD thinks this is purgatory so it would make sense it would be styled like MOTD such as the red eyes

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BaronVonBeau    11
6 hours ago, Castun50 said:

@MrDalekJD thinks this is purgatory so it would make sense it would be styled like MOTD such as the red eyes

I saw that video, it's a very valid point. I forgot about the whole purgatory thing ha. But he does also say that the brothers are the crew characters. I believe the brothers cipher refers to the dragons. I am absolutely buzzing to find out what is going on. 

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Castun50    16
On 7/4/2016 at 0:00 AM, BaronVonBeau said:

I saw that video, it's a very valid point. I forgot about the whole purgatory thing ha. But he does also say that the brothers are the crew characters. I believe the brothers cipher refers to the dragons. I am absolutely buzzing to find out what is going on. 

 amen brother! I am very curious on how the brother thing works. one side of me says the dragon the next says nik. But speculation for now. xbox needs to drop the dlc asap i want to play!!!!!!!!!!!

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On 7/3/2016 at 5:19 PM, Castun50 said:

@MrDalekJD thinks this is purgatory so it would make sense it would be styled like MOTD such as the red eyes

I personally disagree. It was never confirmed to be purgatory or hell (and from what I have seen this theory has little to no solid evidence), so assuming that this map is in "Nikolai's Hell/Purgatory" could be true, but I find it quite unlikely. Although they have implemented many mythological concepts into zombies, about 95% of them have "scientific" backing through old real-life theories. I find the concept of Hell/Purgatory to be very far fetched, and I would be genuinely disappointed if Treyarch took that route.

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Castun50    16
4 hours ago, AetherialVoices said:

I personally disagree. It was never confirmed to be purgatory or hell (and from what I have seen this theory has little to no solid evidence), so assuming that this map is in "Nikolai's Hell/Purgatory" could be true, but I find it quite unlikely. Although they have implemented many mythological concepts into zombies, about 95% of them have "scientific" backing through old real-life theories. I find the concept of Hell/Purgatory to be very far fetched, and I would be genuinely disappointed if Treyarch took that route.

 how else do you explain MOTD? Just trying to pick your brain

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On 30/06/2016 at 8:00 AM, BaronVonBeau said:

what if, Nikolai 1.0 is in control of the zombies, what if the red eyed zombies are Nikolai's?

I honestly let out a little scream when reading this whole thing, this is such a good theory. Great job! :smile:

 

On 30/06/2016 at 8:00 AM, BaronVonBeau said:

3. Nikolai is mentioned in Mob of the Dead.

There definitely has to be some connection with Nikolai and these red eyed zombies because it's so strange how Nikolai is mentioned in the map that first features these eye colors and then the map where they return is the map focused around Nikolai plus Weasel mentioning Nikolai without knowing why is really strange.

 

On 30/06/2016 at 2:41 PM, Doctor Richtofen said:

Some Zombies had Blue Eyes aswell the one's with electricity in them
 

 

122c2de13646eabf416102616b0c0110.png

Maybe there's a change in what's controlling the zombies in the map later on?

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InfestLithium    496
On 7/5/2016 at 7:09 PM, AetherialVoices said:

 I find the concept of Hell/Purgatory to be very far fetched, and I would be genuinely disappointed if Treyarch took that route.

 

But Mob of the Dead was indeed purgatory. You play as four dead mobsters in a rendition of Alcatraz that never existed. Now, you could argue that it's an alternate universe such as the ones in Black Ops 3, but that doesn't remove the fact that the characters are dead - in fact, the audio reels in the latter of the Easter Egg prove it.

 

Also, we know it to be Purgatory because they keep reliving the cycle of the night of their escape over and over until something new changes. When Al kills the nightguard Ferguson, it changes the next level in the cycle. Then when they finally build the plane and take off, that completes the next level. Lastly, Al killing the others as his "final vendetta" breaks the cycle - something that the controller of that realm wanted to happen. Why? We still don't know to this day.

 

I don't believe that Treyarch is completing using Purgatory as an excuse to validate certain maps; however, they are taking particular elements of "a world under different circumstances and realms" to justify where they are. If you think about it, Shadows of Evil is a torn, twisted version of itself and removed. Shadow Man confirms this right at the beginning of the game that the Morg City they're in is not the actual city the characters they know...just a "corrupted" version of it. That's a form of Purgatory.

 

But Gorod Krovi? It may or may not. We got away with Zetsubou no Shima because it was an isolated Pacific island that was completely broken (fighter planes in the sky appearing/disappearing, etc). Der Eisendrache falls in the "same" universe. Now we deal with a major city (Stalingrad) and it's harder to call that Purgatory...but it's very difficult to deny as well. Dragon, giant Russian-ized robots that were original from Group 935, and a city of the undead? That world is completely screwed compared to the other maps.

 

As far as I'm concerned, time travelling into a different realm is not possible...with teleporters, at least. However, Richtofen has used portals somehow even before acquiring the Summoning Key (i.e. Shadows of Evil), and thus, our heroes can flow into any realm through the aid of ethereal ______. So, it pretty much is possible to be in Purgatory here once more. But we won't know until we see what happens throughout the Easter Egg.

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41 minutes ago, InfestLithium said:

 

But Mob of the Dead was indeed purgatory. You play as four dead mobsters in a rendition of Alcatraz that never existed. Now, you could argue that it's an alternate universe such as the ones in Black Ops 3, but that doesn't remove the fact that the characters are dead - in fact, the audio reels in the latter of the Easter Egg prove it.

I would like to also point out that the audio reels also confirm that it is post 1942 and that Ferguson is alive. The characters are in fact dead. That is undeniable. However, this does not automatically make this purgatory or hell or any other pre-existing iteration of an afterlife. And besides that, where did the term purgatory come into this?

43 minutes ago, InfestLithium said:

Also, we know it to be Purgatory because they keep reliving the cycle of the night of their escape over and over until something new changes. When Al kills the nightguard Ferguson, it changes the next level in the cycle. Then when they finally build the plane and take off, that completes the next level. Lastly, Al killing the others as his "final vendetta" breaks the cycle - something that the controller of that realm wanted to happen. Why? We still don't know to this day.

What makes you think that the controller of that realm (I refer to it as the "Ancient Evil" but am still hoping for 3arc to give it a real name) wanted the cycle to be broken? Our characters are stuck in a cycle and have been for a very long time. The incorporeal forms we take on in the "afterlife mode" have been confirmed through wall writings to be the souls of our characters. And I would like to point out that our four characters are not the only ones trapped there. Ferguson is also trapped there "just like you". Also, although breaking the cycle is referred to as the "good ending" in code and the soundtrack, it has not been confirmed to be the canonical ending.

55 minutes ago, InfestLithium said:

I don't believe that Treyarch is completing using Purgatory as an excuse to validate certain maps; however, they are taking particular elements of "a world under different circumstances and realms" to justify where they are. If you think about it, Shadows of Evil is a torn, twisted version of itself and removed. Shadow Man confirms this right at the beginning of the game that the Morg City they're in is not the actual city the characters they know...just a "corrupted" version of it.

Precisely.

56 minutes ago, InfestLithium said:

That's a form of Purgatory.

NO NO NO! Sorry, but just no! NEVER, not ONCE has this been confirmed to be Purgatory. To be honest, it is NOTHING LIKE Purgatory! It could POSSIBLY be interpreted as a form of Hell, but not Purgatory.

 

1 hour ago, InfestLithium said:

But Gorod Krovi? It may or may not. We got away with Zetsubou no Shima because it was an isolated Pacific island that was completely broken (fighter planes in the sky appearing/disappearing, etc). Der Eisendrache falls in the "same" universe. Now we deal with a major city (Stalingrad) and it's harder to call that Purgatory...but it's very difficult to deny as well. Dragon, giant Russian-ized robots that were original from Group 935, and a city of the undead? That world is completely screwed compared to the other maps.

The continuity is all there. The production of the dragons, the Russians stealing 935 blueprints and manufacturing their own versions of them, and the dragons being loose in Stalingrad.

1 hour ago, InfestLithium said:

As far as I'm concerned, time travelling into a different realm is not possible...with teleporters, at least. However, Richtofen has used portals somehow even before acquiring the Summoning Key (i.e. Shadows of Evil), and thus, our heroes can flow into any realm through the aid of ethereal ______. So, it pretty much is possible to be in Purgatory here once more. But we won't know until we see what happens throughout the Easter Egg.

I will debunk this right here, right now.

"Richtofen must understand that using these teleporters to jump between dimensions is both dangerous and imprecise. At any point, the fabric of space-time could collapse if the proper amounts of 115 are not maintained."

That good enough?

If not, how about this one?

"EDWARD AS YOU KNOW IT IS IMPERATIVE YOU AND THE GROUP FIND THE EXACT VERSIONS OF YOURSELVES THAT I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED IN EACH UNIVERSE ONLY BY KILLING THAT VERSION OF YOURSELF IN THAT PARTICULAR UNIVERSE AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME WILL WE BE SUCCESSFUL ONCE EACH OF YOUR OTHER SELVES ARE KILLED ACROSS ALL UNIVERSES" 

 

But, aside from the arguing my point, I would like to apologize if I came across a bit agitated in this, it is just an insinuation that really irks me.

I was just about to make a formal post explaining these realms, however that day we got the Gorod Krovi trailer, and I saw the red eyes, so I had to wait to see if I am disproven in that map.

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InfestLithium    496

Realm =/= Dimension, friendo. The realm refers to sub-levels of reality, whereas dimensions is something different outside normal reality. I should've made it a bit clearer in my last post. Kinda like the difference between wheat bread vs white bread and bagel vs white bread.

 

And by the way, I also said "form" of Purgatory. Not indefinitely Purgatory. Again, a different use of terminology.

 

But you are correct about the teleport quote, my bad. However, I did say they cannot jump into realms. Dimensions are a different story, and we've seen that throughout many cases of Zombies. To give an example of what I mean, Aether is a realm that's the in-between place between ethereal existence and reality. When using a teleporter, we pass through the Aether, and back into reality. But because the teleporters are calibrated precisely, they allow us to pass back into the physical world. A clear indication of a worst-case scenario is Fluffy when she was teleported.

 

That's why that quote exists. The heroes jump into different dimensions of different universes, at the right timing. But yes, incorrect amounts of 115 would essentially cause the realm of Aether (or whatever the hell else there is) to be opened into the physical world and rip the universe apart as we know it. But still, Richtofen had been able to teleport without aid of a teleporter, so it's not specifically limited to that.

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11 minutes ago, InfestLithium said:

Realm =/= Dimension, friendo. The realm refers to sub-levels of reality, whereas dimensions is something different outside normal reality. I should've made it a bit clearer in my last post. Kinda like the difference between wheat bread vs white bread and bagel vs white bread.

True, realms are not the same as dimensions. Also, dimensions are not the same as universes. Dimensions are like in real life (with us living in the third, and the fourth having the added variable of time) whereas universes are the different timelines. "Realm" is a generic term used many times when they don't want to be specific. A realm could be a dimension (like when Maxis refers to the Aether as the "Ethereal Realm") or the many times that universes are referred to as realms. It could also be a third possibility, what has been referred to as a "pocket dimension", a "shadow realm", a "purgatory", a "hell", an infinite loop, etc. (i.e. Mob of the Dead, Shadows of Evil, etc.) these, unlike the different timelines, are referred to as dimensions instead of universes, which shows a clear distinction. This third possibility is what I was going to make the post on, and I am still quite eager to make it, but nonetheless I have to wait for Gorod Krovi.

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Tac    462

I'd like to point out that in Shadows of Evil, Dr. Maxis seems to use the terms pretty interchangeably:

 

Quote

Dr. Ludvig Maxis: To any survivors of this realm, I am truly sorry.  I wish I could offer you some words of comfort, but I cannot.  It is my hope that I can rid the universe of the evil that has plagued us for so long.  But in my heart, I know many more dimensions will be lost forever as we continue our journey towards peace.  Forgive me.

 

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Trying to define the differences between realms, dimensions, timelines, and universes is a pointless task in my opinion. The characters, developers, even the dictionaries are going to both conflict and overlap. I think we should just accept that there is no point worrying over it. Treyarch doesn't take the story seriously enough for definitions, so why should we...

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Weasel mentions Nikolai. Nero mentions Nikolai. Also, I've heard that in moon Nikolai mentions weasel, although i could not find the quote for proof, so I'll disregard this. Most of neros knowledge of the crew seems to be rooted from the shadow man implanting this information during neros coma. Could the shadow man have implanted this knowledge in weasel? It would explain why he knows so much, and his mentioning Nikolai. But then again, it could be the corrupting of time that gave the weasel this information, much like what maxis said happened to him when the timeline became fucked, where he somehow gained knowledge that he never actually had. I like to think that dr Monty has some sort of affiliation with the shadow man, seeing as the design for the gum ball machine fits Shadows most specifically (it has that roaring 20's font much like the rest of the map), and because of the quote "I have seen your misdeeds" shared between monty and the shadow man. Shit, what if they are two sides of a coin, shadow man having been the median for the apothicans, whereas Monty is the medium for the vril? There's a lot of stuff to think about here. What if since they both technically have the same lineage in that sense, originally being vril (the apothicans are descendants of the vril that mutated), either of them having control over zombies means red eyes? So somehow, one of them had control during Mob, while the other has control in GK? Food for thought.

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Castun50    16
1 hour ago, Wafflegun'N'syrup said:

Weasel mentions Nikolai. Nero mentions Nikolai. Also, I've heard that in moon Nikolai mentions weasel, although i could not find the quote for proof, so I'll disregard this. Most of neros knowledge of the crew seems to be rooted from the shadow man implanting this information during neros coma. Could the shadow man have implanted this knowledge in weasel? It would explain why he knows so much, and his mentioning Nikolai. But then again, it could be the corrupting of time that gave the weasel this information, much like what maxis said happened to him when the timeline became fucked, where he somehow gained knowledge that he never actually had. I like to think that dr Monty has some sort of affiliation with the shadow man, seeing as the design for the gum ball machine fits Shadows most specifically (it has that roaring 20's font much like the rest of the map), and because of the quote "I have seen your misdeeds" shared between monty and the shadow man. Shit, what if they are two sides of a coin, shadow man having been the median for the apothicans, whereas Monty is the medium for the vril? There's a lot of stuff to think about here. What if since they both technically have the same lineage in that sense, originally being vril (the apothicans are descendants of the vril that mutated), either of them having control over zombies means red eyes? So somehow, one of them had control during Mob, while the other has control in GK? Food for thought.

I cant tell you how many times i have thought the same thing. shadow man the yin to montys yang. makes you wonder which one was in the original series or if either of them were. like maybe because of the change in the story, monty lost part of himself which later turned into the shadow man. really makes you wonder.

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10 hours ago, Castun50 said:

I cant tell you how many times i have thought the same thing. shadow man the yin to montys yang. makes you wonder which one was in the original series or if either of them were. like maybe because of the change in the story, monty lost part of himself which later turned into the shadow man. really makes you wonder.

It could be a situation where the shadow man and Monty are the same person, but different versions from different dimensions/timelines/whatever the fuck you'd like call it. Due to the ripples in time, shadows could be some sort of mixing ground for the different worlds, thus why there are yellow eyed zombies, apothicans intervening, Montys machines, the shadow man, and another cursed "purgatory crew", also explaining the connection to mob. That could explain everything- it's a literal shitstorm! If that irrationalized the story, it could also rationalize it as well.

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