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Rissole25

What evidence is there to support TranZit being in the 1960's and/or 2025?

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Kino der Toten has been theorized to have been set in an alternate reality. Because in that situation, it's the only instance where anyone in the Zombies universe has traveled back through time (and the MTD is only capable of traveling forward in time as far as we're concerned). The only way that backwards travel is possible is via Agartha. That being said, it's relatively safe to say that Kino occurs on a separate timeline.

So the loading screen of Nacht Der Untoten, the easter egg of Shangri-La and the Time Bomb use Agartha...?

We honestly have no idea what's happening in NDU's loading screen, so it's hard to create concrete evidence in that. Shangri-la definitely uses a power with more...power(?) compared to, say, the MTD. The Time Bomb is composed of ethereal energy - the same essence that Agartha flows with. In fact, we only begun experimenting with ethereal energy as an alternate power source instead of Element 115 in Black Ops 2.

@DeathBringerZen Ah, so their language then? That's still an iffy piece of evidence to even call support but I can see that. My bad for not understanding what you previously meant.

Kino was determined to be in a different reality because the Furnsehturm a.k.a. Berlin TV Tower was still not completed although in construction. The tower was being built between 1965 and 1969. The paradox is that JFK was assassinated in 1963, so that would make FIVE before that date. For a long while, we believed that Ascension and FIVE occurred at the same time and thus, would mean Kino happened before Ascension. But we know backward time travel during that period was considered impossible by 115 limitations. @Shooter just posted a very logical reason how Ascension could actually be after FIVE instead of a simultaneous event. Now the question becomes how far exactly was Ascension from FIVE?

There are only one conclusion to dispute Kino NOT being in an alternate reality and/or traveled back in time: Five > Ascension > Kino should Shooter's presumption be correct. This would make sense as to how the O4 teleported to Call of the Dead, let alone "spawned" in a teleporter room. Because there is no evidence of backwards time travel via 115, we know it could not have been done without the help of ethereal energy (which was not present in the Kino/Ascension jump).

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So what do we make of us using the teleporter in Kino to get to the Pack-A-Punch room. We go to Samantha's room unscathed then a different version that is bloodied and tarnished. I always assumed this was us moving backward and forward in time, albeit briefly. Is there a theory on what is going on when we teleport? Would be interesting to read peoples take on that one.

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Kino is like the quintessential zombies map and yet it's like an irregular shaped jigsaw puzzle piece in terms of story. I think this is the only map that is never referenced at all in quotes.

Is the guy in the radios actually Maxis? There was a debate a while back that the voice didn't sound like his. And what is happening in those radios and film reels. It kind of sounds like they were close at times to being able to control the zombie themselves.

There are only one conclusion to dispute Kino NOT being in an alternate reality and/or traveled back in time: Five > Ascension > Kino should Shooter's presumption be correct. This would make sense as to how the O4 teleported to Call of the Dead, let alone "spawned" in a teleporter room. Because there is no evidence of backwards time travel via 115, we know it could not have been done without the help of ethereal energy (which was not present in the Kino/Ascension jump).

I've never heard that way before. It's interesting, but the Kino loading screen seems to suggest after Der Riese they just go straight to Kino. The Shi No Numa BO1 radio (why is it even in that map?) doesn't say where they are though, only that went into the future.

So what do we make of us using the teleporter in Kino to get to the Pack-A-Punch room. We go to Samantha's room unscathed then a different version that is bloodied and tarnished. I always assumed this was us moving backward and forward in time, albeit briefly. Is there a theory on what is going on when we teleport? Would be interesting to read peoples take on that one.

I don't know if this is right, but I just always considered it a metaphor of Samantha going from a normal innocent girl into a disturbed demonic being.

Honestly this whole Kino stuff could even use a thread itself haha (not be rude or anything, it's just a whole nother can of worms).

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I don't know if this is right, but I just always considered it a metaphor of Samantha going from a normal innocent girl into a disturbed demonic being.

Honestly this whole Kino stuff could even use a thread itself haha (not be rude or anything, it's just a whole nother can of worms).

 

The thing about the zombie community is that they like to try and theorize over even the smallest of things so something as big as the rooms we teleport to temporarily or what time frame they exist in cannot be ignored or put down to being a metophor. As far as I can see we go to these rooms using an MTD which is known to have time travelling abilities and at no point anywhere does any messages or information confirm the MTD is only capable of forward travel.

 

Based on the way the MTD works in Kino and with Ascension assumed to be taking place before Kino then I am inclined to believe the MTD is indeed capable of backward travel. We cannot write off Ascension not taking place at the same time as Five either just by assuming the red phones are pre-recordings. I am not saying they couldn't be, just that there is nothing to suggest they definitely are... just in the same way that prior to BO2 being released there was nothing concrete to confirm Moon took place in the future rather than the past.

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I personally don't think Kino was set in another reality. But I do think Kino doesn't really matter, like at all lol. I know we have to take it as canon and all, but it serves no purpose.

We go there for no apparent reason and accomplish nothing. And the story contradicts itself during Kino as well. During the loading screen Richtofen says he doesn't know where Sam went, yet during the game he asks why Sam is helping him when he gets a power up.

Nothing about Kino makes sense, and I'm pretty sure it's because they didn't know what they were doing with Kino in terms of the story. Since it was originally planned for WAW, the story behind Kino was simple. But then we never saw a DLC4 and it got pushed back to Black Ops, where the story got very complex and Kino didn't really fit in.

And that's why Kino pisses me off. But since we can't just ignore it, this is how I see the whole Kino-Five-Ascension going down:

-In 1945 we're fighting zombies at Der Riese and get overrun. In a last ditch effort to escape, Richtofen and the O3 use the MTD to travel to another location. But someone has the Wunderwaffe and ends up overloading the system, sending them forward in time to 1968 Kino.

-During the 23 years that the O4 skip, the Pentagon is attacked in 1963. During the fight, the Five 4 lose all communication with the outside world. The only option left to communicate is the Moscow Washigton hotline, so they send a message to 1963 Ascension.

-The O4 arrive at 1968 Kino and accomplish nothing. Richtofen then uses the MTD to travel to 1968(or later) Ascension. When they arrive, they discover a red telephone with an old message from the night the Pentagon was attacked, back in 1963.

That's the way I see it going down. That, or you can just discredit Kino entirely.

Is what I'm saying just a theory? Sure. But it's just as much a theory as Ascension occurring in 1963 at the same time as Five is. The fact is the one and only evidence of Ascension being in 1963 is the red telephone, and it quite easily could have been a recording from a long time ago.

The phone could have been black, or grey, or blue, or any other color. But it's red. Just like the real life Moscow Washington hotline. I don't think that's a coincidence by Treyarch. What they were referencing was the MW hotline, and in real life, it was not a phone.

And yes, there's never any mention that the MTD isn't capable of backwards time travel, but you have to look at the big picture. Every map has been forward time travel, except for MotD and Origins, both of which end in cycles being broken and the player surviving. There's not one quote, radio, transcript, map description, anything that mentions the MTD going back in time, only forward.

That doesn't mean that it wasn't capable of backwards time travel. It could have been. Hell it could of been capable of turning people into bottled nose dolphins. But since there's zero evidence to support either one of those claims, you have to assume that it wasn't possible. It's all about the bigger picture.

 

Ok Rissole, you can shoot me now for dragging this thread completely off topic. 

 

Edited by Shooter
Because I'm cool.

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Actually @Shooter, you didn't go off-topic. We have very substantial evidence of forward time travel but not backwards. With that being the case, it can further conclude Moon to take place in the future and thus mean Tranzit being in the future as well (but like maps before it, have a desolated environment infested with secret government operations and experiments). Even when ruling in Shangri-la's ability to travel back in time, you're only allowed in the past for a short duration until you're moved back to the present (in the same exact location where you stand, mind you). If we conclude that continuous time travel must only be done going forward, then we can assume everything Moon and beyond is indefinitely in the future.

I agree with Shooter, though; Kino did nothing truly beneficial other than introduce us to Gas Zombies, NOVA 6 in the Zombies universe, mind control, and the Wii version's playback of a foretold Great Leap Forward map. These were all things we could've very well speculated on our own without being told except the latter of the items. No Easter Egg, no actual narrative behind the map, nada - just another Nazi facility meant to fit World at War's theme. The O4 arrived via teleporter, and left via teleporter. No matter which direction you choose to face, there will always be a contradiction.

But to me, @Shooter nailed it. 

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True true. So with that said. If they can only time travel forwards, Shangri-La and Moon/Nuketown would be 2011 onwards?

Edited by Rissole25

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I firmly believe that Nuketown is in the 1960's (only logical explanation, as aboveground nuclear testing was banned after the 1960's, as was the creation of places like Nuketown); meaning Moon has to take place then as well.

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True true. So with that said. If they can only time travel forwards, Shangri-La and Moon/Nuketown would be 2011 onwards?

Yes, they would be 2011 onwards. We know Shangri La matched up with this time frame, based on the type of electronic voice recorders left by Brock and Gary.

Moon was the questionable one. But given the fact we can't move backwards in time with the MTD, along with other supporting evidence, I think we can conclude that Moon/NTZ occured 2011 or later. And thus Tranzit is post-2011 as well.

 

I firmly believe that Nuketown is in the 1960's (only logical explanation, as aboveground nuclear testing was banned after the 1960's, as was the creation of places like Nuketown); meaning Moon has to take place then as well.

Keep in mind that the map description for NTZ does not specify how long after the original Nuketown that NTZ occurs. All it says is "after the end of Nuketown". It could be days after or decades after, it's not very clear.

Also, there is plenty of solid evidence against it being in the 60's, namely the "since 1996" poster on Die Rise, and Marlton's calculator watch from the 1980's.

There's a lot of evidence that contradicts itself. The best thing we can do is go by the most solid evidence presented, and look at the bigger picture.

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Considering that the zombie skins on NTZ are the same as the multiplayer characters from Bo2, I think it's safe to say that it occurs right after the 60's mp map from Bo1, and the poster and calculator watch don't prove anything either; as the former is an easter egg relating to Treyarch's founding and the latter is jsut a character design. 

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Considering that the zombie skins on NTZ are the same as the multiplayer characters from Bo2, I think it's safe to say that it occurs right after the 60's mp map from Bo1, and the poster and calculator watch don't prove anything either; as the former is an easter egg relating to Treyarch's founding and the latter is jsut a character design. 

What about Russman leaving Broken Arrow? Or the fridge in Die Rise? Those seem pretty modern.
 

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Considering that the zombie skins on NTZ are the same as the multiplayer characters from Bo2, I think it's safe to say that it occurs right after the 60's mp map from Bo1, and the poster and calculator watch don't prove anything either; as the former is an easter egg relating to Treyarch's founding and the latter is jsut a character design. 

You are of course entitled to your own opinion on what you consider canon or not. Personally, I wouldn't omit certain evidence while including  other evidence just to make a theory work, but that's just me.

If you want to ignore a certain calculator watch that was manufactured in 1980 (I doubt Zombies devs would be so specific with the texture to completely replicate a Casio C-80 for no reason), or a sign that says "since 1996", then that is your decision, and I can't criticize you for it.

But keep in mind I could easily just point out that the zombie's clothing in NTZ are the same one from multiplayer because the dead have been sitting in the ground for decades. I could also argue that the blast after the MP level would have destroyed whatever clothing they were wearing. The Zombies clothes are not a deciding factor in determining the date of NTZ in my opinion.

Also, not a lot of people brig this up, but the map description for NTZ might also hint at a date.

"Mass-energy equivalence, secret tests, crash-landing perks. Survive in the iconic Nuketown, where the past and the future come together."

"Where the past and future come together". If Nuketown and NTZ occured one right after another, the map description wouldn't make sense, it would all just be the past. Just something else to consider.

 

Edited by Shooter

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Considering that the zombie skins on NTZ are the same as the multiplayer characters from Bo2, I think it's safe to say that it occurs right after the 60's mp map from Bo1, and the poster and calculator watch don't prove anything either; as the former is an easter egg relating to Treyarch's founding and the latter is jsut a character design. 

You are of course entitled to your own opinion on what you consider canon or not. Personally, I wouldn't omit certain evidence while including  other evidence just to make a theory work, but that's just me.

If you want to ignore a certain calculator watch that was manufactured in 1980 (I doubt Zombies devs would be so specific with the texture to completely replicate a Casio C-80 for no reason), or a sign that says "since 1996", then that is your decision, and I can't criticize you for it.

But keep in mind I could easily just point out that the zombie's clothing in NTZ are the same one from multiplayer because the dead have been sitting in the ground for decades. I could also argue that the blast after the MP level would have destroyed whatever clothing they were wearing. The Zombies clothes are not a deciding factor in determining the date of NTZ in my opinion.

Also, not a lot of people brig this up, but the map description for NTZ might also hint at a date.

"Mass-energy equivalence, secret tests, crash-landing perks. Survive in the iconic Nuketown, where the past and the future come together."

"Where the past and future come together". If Nuketown and NTZ occured one right after another, the map description wouldn't make sense, it would all just be the past. Just something else to consider.

 

 

I think "where the past and the future come together" is likely referring to the events of Moon occurring simultaneously with the events of Nuketown  .  . . a metaphorical and literal bridging of the gap between Black Ops 1 (pre zombie apocalypse and blown up earth) and Black Ops 2 (post zombie apocalypse and blown up earth)

Edited by FabledVillain

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I am not exactly sure when Tranzit takes place and I don't believe the developers do either due to numerous contradictions. For example, The map looks like it is actually set in the 50's, not the 60's and The Driver even sounds like a stereotypical 50's radio voice actor. He may also be advanced for his time but if you look at the technology and engineering used to make him it looks dated. Even the Sedan billboard, the bus, posters around the map etc all remembled those of a 1950's environment.

 

The TV in the farm also has voice actors who all sound like they are from a 50's movie or radio programme. Again, I believe that was intentional to fit the theme of the map. The old fashioned music on the loading screen as well as the 50's style images all kind of make it seem more than likely that the map is definitely set in the early 60's but then Die Rise came along and screwed all of that up and the communities answer to this was to claim Tranzit was a fake town built to resemble a 50's style. Something I personally disagree with.

 

The reason why I doubt the Devs had a proper picture of the timeframe is simply because they intentionally tried to make Tranzit a 50/60's themed map then screwed it all up with Die Rise and then later Buried. Partly the reason why I really despise the storyline in BO2 and don't like even wasting much time on working things out that are impossible without adding stupid time bubble garbage into it, which is possible but ruins a once great storyline for me unfortunately.

This sums it up rather perfectly.

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How would you explain the appearance of a calculator watch from the 80's in 2025 then?

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So what do we make of us using the teleporter in Kino to get to the Pack-A-Punch room. We go to Samantha's room unscathed then a different version that is bloodied and tarnished. I always assumed this was us moving backward and forward in time, albeit briefly. Is there a theory on what is going on when we teleport? Would be interesting to read peoples take on that one.

I still think that Sam's room and other rooms we stopped at when teleporting in Kino were possibly places in the Aether. Der Riese had the writing on the wall about traveling through the Aether which we assume refers to the blue spiral efect when teleporting. In that blue spiral we see images of people and other stuff. So there is something in the Aether when we travel. Sam's room seems like an example of this. One version represents the child side of her thats still Maxis daughter and the other room represents her angry side and how something might be controlling her, hence the giant teddy with red eyes. These places seem like we are stepping into places Sam has created with her mind and memory as opposed to physical places in two different times. As if we are stepping into parts of her brain. The other rooms could be manifestations made by her or something else that's controlling the Aether like she does from the MPD. Who knows.

 

As far as Tranzit's timeline, what makes the most sense for me in regards to keeping the story how I like to think its going, is that its a town from the 50/60s that was a cover for a secret facility and something bad happened there so the town was abandoned. Whatever time period Die Rise is is what I'm  assuming the other maps take place in. If the world was nuked and falling apart, China wouldn't have gone on like nothing happened, creating new tech and waiting for their destruction. So if Die Rise is 2020 or whatever, I'm assuming Tranzit takes place then as well and the town was just sitting there since the 60s while perhaps the facility underground was still being used. But thats just me forcing my theory on the game's story since BO2 as so vague anything is possible and since I hate the idea of time bubbles and alternate universes. 

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On 8/23/2015, 2:23:21, Rissole25 said:

2025

  • When Russman is fired from Broken Arrow, he is standing in the middle of a modern street, before TranZit.
  • Die Rise wouldn't exist if the earth blew up in the 60's.
  • Marlton has knowledge of modern/futuristic BO2 weapons. (example: "First manufactured towards the end of the 20th century, but a fine piece of weaponry by any measures." Barrett M82A1)
  • Maxis says he has been searching for decades. (unused line, so it may not count)
  • Bus Driver is advanced, somewhat knows what is happening around him (bridge falling, etc). Seems to be able to travel to locations around the world.

I think bullet point three could be easily countered.  Rather, what other quotes exist that suggest Marlton knows about modern/futuristic weapons?  The quote listen in OP can't be taken as evidence because it can be applied to either the 1960s or 2025.

 

EDIT:

On 9/5/2015, 5:51:04, Nightmare Voyager said:

How would you explain the appearance of a calculator watch from the 80's in 2025 then?

What do you mean?  One could easily say that someone just still had the watch.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was a nerd in 2025 who wore a calculator watch.  As a case of reason-ability, you could possibly be on to something.  But, on a logical standpoint, that doesn't mean anything.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Tac said:

I think bullet point three could be easily countered.  Rather, what other quotes exist that suggest Marlton knows about modern/futuristic weapons?  The quote listen in OP can't be taken as evidence because it can be applied to either the 1960s or 2025.

Thing is, the Barrett M82 in real life was designed in 1980, produced in 1982, and was in service in 1984. The M82A1 (which is the gun in game) was than developed by 1986.

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I am not asking it like that, I literally mean why is he wearing it if it is in 2025? Like should he not have some mega I-Watch if he is a nerd? The whole of these three maps confuse me timeline wise, but I am sticking to the 60s and I am just putting something like the watch down to 3arch either not knowing what they are doing or putting it in as a mistake.

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I always thought Tranzit was in 60's but I think the are more facts proving that it is located in 2025.

 

Honestly I think we all should not let the weapons of the game influence us, if we look at Shadows of evil 

who actually is located on same timeline and universe of Mob of the dead, we have different guns on the two maps:

- futuristic on Shadows

- retro or actual on Mob

So I believe guns are just guns, Treyarch could not have a set of guns for zombie and a set for multiplayer so since

BO3 is located in future we handle futuristic weapons on zombies too but it means nothing. Gord Krovi is located

in 40's but we still can handle all the new weapons of multyplayer. 

 

 

Talking about Marlthon in the Nuketown Shelter I think that he moved across the time, Nuketown zombies is in 60's

but Tranzit is not. I believe Marlthon is a key character who could give many answers maybe in the new zombie comics.

 

When in Tranzit Richthofen starts to speak in Stulingher's head he says something about the long time passed who actually

would not make any sense if Nuke and Tranzit would be close in the timeline. Most important, the tranzit crew mission is

activate all towers in the same moment, that's why they move so quickly zone by zone and since Die Rise take places

surely after 1996 we can say that Tranzit and Buried too take place after that too.

 

 

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Just wanted to throw my future input here now that I've managed to read Issue #2 of the comics.

 

If you haven't read that issue yet...well, SPOILERS below.

 

The Tranzit crew are teleported to the Broken Arrow facility - the very same place that Russman talked about back when he used to be an agent. Through the comics, we learn that this facility was using blueprints and data from Division 9 to create bio-test subjects, labeled as "Bios" to help the Americans win the Cold War against the Russians. Russman was an agent involved with these experiments.

 

Now the important part to know about this explanation is that Russman clearly states the experiments were happening during the Cold War. I should also mention that he appeared as a middle-aged man with black hair, similar hair style to what he has now (but cleaner cut). This means that Tranzit could have in no way happened prior to the 1980s, as Russman looked completely different and the world hadn't been blown to shit yet.

 

But what about Russman, you ask. How old would that make him?

 

If we assume this event (the experiments) happened in the 1980s, we can assume that Russman was in his 30s at the time. Since the comics are happening after the events of Buried (or after Die Rise, more specifically), we know we are beyond the year 2025 at minimum. This makes Russman about 70-ish years old. Keep in mind that he was a former agent, so it's not difficult to consider he still have what strength and agility leftover despite age. Granted he's no 007, but he isn't a typical old homeless man either.

 

Therefore, it's heavily GIVEN to us that Tranzit would have to take place 2025 at least.

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