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Top 5 Dropped Story Threads | Podcast Der Toten


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Come check out the latest Podcast Der Toten, the official CoDz podcast, featuring myself, @Mattzs, and @Tac. In this week's episode, we walk through five different abandoned story threads by Treyarch, and explain how we might pick them up.

 

 

When and why did Gersh join up with Ultimis? How deep did Maxis' Vril experiments go? What was George Romero really up to? Post a comment below!

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Talking about Gersch + Ultimis potentially occuring in another fracture, there's that Ascension menu screen that once changed to a static television screen variant, nobody knows why.

NewAscensionStatic.png.4661fc8b52534a12aeafaf778f65b386.png

Could it have something to do with an alternate course of the events of Ascension?

 

There's also this picture:

Ascensionleak.png.0d332378d251ed518cf275a782d2a2aa.png

I consider that bald man to be Gersch, maybe being the same guy as in the Zombie Labs trailers. There's also 'Five' written beneath. Maybe they were planning to add five players rather than four? Or Gersch, a Soviet scientist perfectly fitting in BO1's theme, was fully gonna replace Richtofen, a Nazi remnant of WaW?

 

Other dropped story threads could be the Hanford Sanatorium/identical zombie neckwounds in Tranzit, Shadowman replacing Richtofen in BotD, the sudden disappearance of GK Medical Company and the lack of clarity about the Apothicon Sun. Just trowing some random subjects here

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Cool vid.  I don't think those are the top 5 but those are some.
 

8 minutes ago, anonymous said:

 

Other dropped story threads could be the Hanford Sanatorium/identical zombie neckwounds in Tranzit, Shadowman replacing Richtofen in BotD, the sudden disappearance of GK Medical Company and the lack of clarity about the Apothicon Sun. Just trowing some random subjects here

Other examples for topics that weren't formally resolved i.e Treyarch did not provide an explicit answer for them (as far as I'm aware)-
The Giant: The radioactive beacon, what Richtofen picked from the corpse, the exact location of the test subjects, "Plan B", Nikolai killing 3 Richtofens, the significance of zombie Richtofen in The Giant, H. Porter, Brazil map and pack a punch on the moon ... 
Shadows of Evil: Poisened SoE crew, green light before sins, reporter artifacts from Russia and the south pacific + the exact origins of the summoning key, The impossible EE, the city under the sacred place, Nero's book, ... 

Some questions here can be addressed but be replaced with others. For some of them there may not even be a chance at addressing, but I'm hopeful.

Quote

Mysteries will reveal themselves in time, they always do. This is the... nature of our quest.

 

Also, as for the Gersh thing, he doesn't have to fight with Ultimis. I checked that Monty reference and he also refers to a Richtofen quote from Der Eisendrache: "Who doesn't love a monkey?"
I'm not sure if Monty even tries to distinguish Ultimis and Primis when he talks. Overall he is not to be trusted as he has no incentive of providing the truth directly.
I think that questions regards Gersh's path can be somewhat addressed but not fully. Perhaps there's more information on that matter in GK that can provide a more detailed route.

 

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Donor
26 minutes ago, RichKiller said:

Cool vid.  I don't think those are the top 5 but those are some.

The beauty of crafting YouTube titles haha

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11 hours ago, RichKiller said:

Shadows of Evil: Poisened SoE crew, green light before sins, reporter artifacts from Russia and the south pacific + the exact origins of the summoning key, The impossible EE, the city under the sacred place, Nero's book, ... 

Ohh, I really like these. SoE's mysteries are so underrated in my opinion. 

 

My personal assumption is that the boxes containing the Cthulu statues and the box containing the Summoning Key are the artifacts the Reporter had to find in the Pacific. After all, the sunken continent of Lemuria/Atlantis and the remnant of it, Pohnpei/Zetsubou, are also said to be the lair of an Apothicon monster (Cthulu) that is trapped there. Combining this with the myths of the Atlanteans going to Hollow Earth/Agartha, the supposed endless subterrean tunnel off the shore of Pohnpei and the hieroglyphics we see in Zetsubou, I think the lost Pacific continent was where the Apothicons were banished to the formless Aether. Bearing this in mind, this could be why the area is filled with Apothicon and proto-Keeper artifacts. In the Zetsubou intro we also see that the the Summoning Key almost falls off the boat in the ocean, only to be grabbed just in time by Takeo. Maybe this whole area is still cursed, and all the ancient artifacts try to find their way back to it.

 

@RichKiller you said that in Lovecraft's "Dreams of the Witch House" an altar with statues of the Elder Gods, bones and a strange metal were used to bring to main character to travel to other dimensions (dreams), right? So maybe the Reporter was collecting all these artifacts and rocks of 115 from the Pacific and Siberia/Tunguaska river basin to make the altars in Morg City, which were needed to bring the Shadows crew to the twisted reality?

 

Concerning the underground city, my guess is that it is an ancient Illuminati/Ancient Order city similar to Shangri-La but hidden under an American metropolis, or something alike. Clearly it hides an incarcarated Apothicon Rift Stone which, when falling in the wrong hands, opens a rift for the Apothicons.

 

Edit: Another fun subject would be the role of the CDC and CIA, and Broken Arrows alignment with the SDC.

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24 minutes ago, anonymous said:

Clearly it hides an incarcarated Apothicon Rift Stone which, when falling in the wrong hands, opens a rift for the Apothicons.

The significance of the Buried Rift is another thing that fully quite addressed (Mend the rift etc.)

 

27 minutes ago, anonymous said:

 

@RichKiller you said that in Lovecraft's "Dreams of the Witch House" an altar with statues of the Elder Gods, bones and a strange metal were used to bring to main character to travel to other dimensions (dreams), right?

The statues are not as big as in SoE. They come from a city of the elders, which he visited in his dreams. That statue is also found in the walls of the house (alongside the other sacrificial items) 

"In other dreams, Gilman is taken to a city of the "Elder Things" and even brings back evidence that he has actually been there—a miniature statue of an "Elder Thing" which he breaks off from a balustrade within the city. The statue is made of unknown materials and a strange kind of alloy."

"A space between the walls is found filled with children's bones, a sacrificial knife and a bowl made of some metal which scientists are unable to identify. A strange stone-statuette of the star-headed "Elder Things" from Gilman's dreams is also discovered."

There's also the the book of azathoth, which kinda reminds me Richtofen and Nero: 
"Gilman's odd experiences seem to escalate as he dreams that he signs the "Book of Azathoth" under the commands of Keziah, Brown Jenkin, and the infamous "Black Man." Gilman is later taken to Azathoth's throne at the "Center of Chaos" by this group and is forced to be an accomplice in the kidnapping of an infant."

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5 minutes ago, RichKiller said:

There's also the the book of azathoth, which kinda reminds me Richtofen and Nero: 
"Gilman's odd experiences seem to escalate as he dreams that he signs the "Book of Azathoth" under the commands of Keziah, Brown Jenkin, and the infamous "Black Man." Gilman is later taken to Azathoth's throne at the "Center of Chaos" by this group and is forced to be an accomplice in the kidnapping of an infant."

Interesting, Nero also mentions to have seen the Shadowman and the Summoning Key in his "dreams".

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1 minute ago, anonymous said:

Interesting, Nero also mentions to have seen the Shadowman and the Summoning Key in his "dreams".

Nero says he couldn't finish reading the book because it caused him nightmares, or something like that (might be a cut quote, there's a lot of these in SoE, not sure).
Also this: 

Quote

 

Nero: No, I'm an illusionist, I-I deal in misdirection and theatrics. This, this is uh, well, this is something else... This seems familiar. I, I think I read about something like this, in a book.

Vincent: Wh-what book?

Nero: This is an inter-dimensional convergence. Other galaxies, other realities are bleeding into our own.

Vincent: So, you're talking about some book like it might explain all this?

Nero: Uh, yes Detective, I've read many books, but uh, forgive me if I don't remember the precise details of one specific book.

Vincent: You know what, shitbag? I'm starting to think you got no more idea what's happening than the rest of us.

Nero: I never claimed absolute knowledge, Detective, only... speculated. Like a, uh, positive theory... Detective! Detective? Are you avoiding me? You don't want to seem to talk.

Vincent: Know what? Why don't you just back the fuck off? I'm starting to get the feeling that you might be the fucking jinx!

 

 

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6 minutes ago, RichKiller said:

Nero says he couldn't finish reading the book because it caused him nightmares, or something like that (might be a cut quote, there's a lot of these in SoE, not sure).

You think there was a reason Nero gained that book? Or did he accidentallu bumped upon it on a flee market in Morg City or something. Seems like the book, similar to Richtofen's diary and the Kronorium, gives the reader visions. Nyarlathotep, Lovecraft's interpretation of the Shadowman, is also said to give it's followers visions of destruction of the world. Do you think this book is influenced by the Shadowman or possibly its Overlords?

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Just now, anonymous said:

You think there was a reason Nero gained that book? Or did he accidentallu bumped upon it on a flee market in Morg City or something. Seems like the book, similar to Richtofen's diary and the Kronorium, gives the reader visions. Nyarlathotep, Lovecraft's interpretation of the Shadowman, is also said to give it's followers visions of destruction of the world. Do you think this book is influenced by the Shadowman or possibly its Overlords?

The book caused Nero to see the shadowman in his dreams. Unlike Maxis, Samuel, Richtofen, etc. , Nero seemingly couldn't finish reading the book. 
This may be the reason as to why Nero doesn't hear the voices of the damned and the doomed. 

 

I don't think he found it out of nowhere. If I had to guess then Zombie Richtofen lead him to find the book. 
The route of Zombie Richtofen is probably the biggest unsolved mystery for me at this time. 

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46 minutes ago, RichKiller said:

The route of Zombie Richtofen is probably the biggest unsolved mystery for me at this time. 

I think it's mostly what we see in the comics, ending with the Classified radios. It's origins, however, remain vague, as well as his ability to seemingly open up those blue portals (or is that Primis Richtofen's work?). Anyway, who knows what he did between the comics and Classified. Maybe he laid contact with Alcatraz's Warden, maybe he visited Morg City. He is another vague force that moves in the background the whole time.

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8 minutes ago, anonymous said:

I think it's mostly what we see in the comics, ending with the Classified radios.

Not sure. Take in mind the alternative loading screens and the Zombie Richtofen references relating to The Giant.  
If you mean origins as how Richtofen got into a zombie, then I think it's safe to assume it happened in Buried. If you ask how did he get his body back, that's a different question.
Zombie Richtofen is very much tied to what's going on and the vast majority of questions I have in the story reduce to him and his involvement. 

Edited by RichKiller
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2 hours ago, anonymous said:

It's origins, however, remain vague

+

15 hours ago, RichKiller said:

what Richtofen picked from the corpse, the significance of zombie Richtofen in The Giant

= That answers the question for me.

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3 minutes ago, Schrödinger said:

+

= That answers the question for me.

Richtofen got the summoning key from Shadows of Evil. Also he picked "Pictures". Also if it was the summoning key then what incentive he has for lying?
Also it doesn't answer the question of the Summoning key's origin because the reporter got it from the South Pacific.
Also this cipher: 

Quote

The Summoning Key is one of the oldest artifacts in all creation. It was used by the first one to mix all the dimensions with life, giving each one its unique balance. Under certain circumstances, it has the ability to form bridges between dimensions allowing the transfer of life forces back and forth. It resides in the 63rd dimensions of creation.

 

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... What ?
We don't talking about the same thing, I think.

16 hours ago, RichKiller said:

what Richtofen picked from the corpse,

I thought it was for The Giant cutscene when Richtofen does something to the corpse of his version 1.0.
I'm just talking about Zombichtofen.

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4 hours ago, Schrödinger said:

... What ?
We don't talking about the same thing, I think.

I thought it was for The Giant cutscene when Richtofen does something to the corpse of his version 1.0.
I'm just talking about Zombichtofen.

Sorry my bad I thought it was about the origins of the summoning key.
I think Zombie Richtofen arrived at The Giant but he wasn't "made" there.
In The Giant you have an affect of the telaporter where you see the normal Richtofen and the Zombie Richtofen split.
This ties up with the believe that the universe got fractured at the moment Richtofen telaports Sam and Maxis, and the same point in which Primis gets to by the dimensional insertion. 
So what I'm trying to say is that somehow, at the moment of the split, Zombie Richtofen managed to get into his own body. It may or may not be the first time. 
This also ties with other stuff such as "Do you know who I am?" and in-game quotes.
The snow.mp3
We know Primis Richtofen picked some object ("Pictures") after messing with the corpse, because of the talk with Dempsey + Treyarch released a video where you can see the scene from the side and see Richtofen messing with the corpse. As to what he picked that another different story. 
Not going to do a full analysis of The Giant now but you get the idea. The Giant has many layers, different characters there see it from a very different perspective. 

Edited by RichKiller
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Donor
On 8/4/2020 at 7:09 PM, RichKiller said:

We know Primis Richtofen picked some object ("Pictures") after messing with the corpse, because of the talk with Dempsey

I never put too much stock in that quote because I’m fairly sure it’s just Treyarch nodding at the audience with an internet meme “Pics or it didn’t happen”. It’s the exact same as the Ascension Facebook quote in my eyes.

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10 hours ago, Spider3000 said:

I never put too much stock in that quote because I’m fairly sure it’s just Treyarch nodding at the audience with an internet meme “Pics or it didn’t happen”. It’s the exact same as the Ascension Facebook quote in my eyes.

If you realize what he picked it makes sense though

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5 hours ago, RichKiller said:

If you realize what he picked it makes sense though

Could you elaborate on that? I kinda dipped during Black Ops 4 so I might’ve missed a lot. 

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What Primis Richtofen picked up from the body was not the "radio" from Ultimis Richtofen's uniform, so he could communicate with Groph in Der Eisendrache?

 

But I think this conflicts with the idea that the Zombie Richtofen from the comics is from the body of The Giant, since you can see that he still has the radio.

DqJu0b1U4AAlT-Y.jpg

 

Unless it's Treyarch's mistake, but knowing how careful they are with details may not be the case.

 

Also other points I would like to point out about The Giant are two initial quotes from Primis Richtofen in solo.

 

These seem to be related to initial quotes from Revelations and Blood of The Dead.

 

In Revelations the quote says:

"Mein gott, what have I done? Stop it, Edward, breathe, it's okay... MAXIS!"

 

This is after Maxis got trapped in the Summoning Key and the Shadow Man escaped.

 

In Blood of The Dead says the following:
“Maxis! Stop it Edward, this may be just another delusion. It must be. Surely, I would never lead myself in such a..., such a...? Mein gott!, Everything could change!"

And in the intro after Brutus closes the portal it says:
"Mein gott. What have you... What have i done?"

The first is after the Kronorium changed and the Primis Richtofen got caught in Alacatraz.

 

And in The Giant the quotes says:

“Maxis! No wait, compose yourself Edward. Mission accomplished.Temporal disruption achieved, the future is changed.”

 

“Mein gott, what have I done? Stop it Edward, breathe, it’s okay, it’s okay. This is important, this is what you have to do, even if another part of you dies each and every time. AGH! How am I meant to work when all around me, I am beset by the voices of the damned, and the doomed!”

 

 

Now, in Revelations and Blood it makes sense because they are after shocking moments, but in The Giant it does not make sense that Primis Richtofen is distressed.


The quote comes after he kills himself in the opening scene, but it doesn't seem to affect Richtofen because of the quote "When I died I felt nothing".


So, could it be a possibility that this line parallels Blood of The Dead, with this Primis Richtofen being the one who delivers the Kronorium in the opening scene and goes through the portal? If that makes sense.

 

Or it could also be that he's distressed by the "fractures through space-time" that the timeline says are created after he kills himself.

Edited by Spotlight
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9 hours ago, Spotlight said:

What Primis Richtofen picked up from the body was not the "radio" from Ultimis Richtofen's uniform, so he could communicate with Groph in Der Eisendrache?

Nah. Groph communicates with Eagle's nest. I wouldn't overthink this one. Also, if it was just the radio, Richtofen wouldn't need to lie to Primis about it. 

 

9 hours ago, Spotlight said:

Also other points I would like to point out about The Giant are two initial quotes from Primis Richtofen in solo.

The Giant has many super important quotes:
 

9 hours ago, Spotlight said:

 

Maxis! No wait, compose yourself Edward. Mission accomplished.Temporal disruption achieved, the future is changed.

KindaLate.mp3
We cannot forget.mp3

 

9 hours ago, Spotlight said:

“Mein gott, what have I done? Stop it Edward, breathe, it’s okay, it’s okay. This is important, this is what you have to do, even if another part of you dies each and every time. ”

He cares not for killing Ultimis Richtofen in The Giant (see discussion between Richtofen and Dempsey and the cutscene itself). This quote is about killing himself as a child.

Quote

"It's not all bad news, Nikolai. We may have failed in our mission, but at least there is one less Richtofen to deal with. If it is any consolation, tell him that the first one was the hardest. I should know, I've killed at least three Richtofen's. There was the one in the fire, the one with the boat hook, and the one - what? No one told me. Sorry, forget what I just said. Everything will be fine."

Possibly "Mein gott, what have I done?" is from a different scenario because the rest of the sentence is a variation of Origins, but I think it also lies nicely with the act itself. 

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1 hour ago, RichKiller said:

He cares not for killing Ultimis Richtofen in The Giant (see discussion between Richtofen and Dempsey and the cutscene itself). This quote is about killing himself as a child.

I think it isn't the mere act of killing a child that he feels that deeply sorry for, I think it is for what this led to. The following quotes are of Primis Richtofen in Tag and Alpha Omega:

 

Edward Richtofen (Primis): “Me neither Dempsey, but that is the sad truth of it all. I took my own soul, before it ever had the chance to flourish. Is it any wonder I am the way I am?”

 

Edward Richtofen (Primis): "What it feels like to have lost your soul, especially at a young age, is a tragedy I do not particularly want to recount."

 

Killing child Richtofen and taking his soul seems to have led to the twisted character all Richtofen's in all universes have. Primis Richtofen knew this, but he was willing to sacrifice his innocent soul in order to save the Multiverse. In exchange, he became the character with a personality disorder we know.

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3 minutes ago, anonymous said:

Killing child Richtofen and taking his soul seems to have led to the twisted character all Richtofen's in all universes have.
Primis Richtofen knew this, but he was willing to sacrifice his innocent soul in order to save the Multiverse.
In exchange, he became the character with a personality disorder we know.

He wants Dimension 63 to be the prevailing dimension so he can survive. 
With Ultimis Richtofen Zombie still in there, you can understand why Primis Richtofen took didn't take that soul, whether Primis Richtofen realizes that or not. 
Recall the souls are merely a Monty plan:

image.png

 

Funny enough Richtofen takes a soul which is not within the fractures... Stupid Maxis, and his rules... 
 

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2 hours ago, RichKiller said:

With Ultimis Richtofen Zombie still in there, you can understand why Primis Richtofen took didn't take that soul, whether Primis Richtofen realizes that or not. 

I think that is because he needed an innocent soul. Remember how  a Maxis cipher talks about the importance of extracting the souls at specific moments in time. Why, I still dont know. 

 

"Edward, as you know it is imperative you and the group find the exact versions of yourselves that I have highlighted in each universe. Only by killing that version of yourself in that particular universe at that particular moment in time will we be successful once each of you other selves are killed across all the universes."

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