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EpicSkittlez

Is The Giant in the same timeline as Origins?

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I don't understand how they could be in the same timeline. In origins, maxis's brain is in the drone. Doesn't that mean that he died? Richthofen locked him and Samantha in the teleporter in Dir Riese. Maxis had to be alive to have a daughter. There is no way that his wife could have had her during the time of origins. Since Samantha is in the aether she could probably go back in time to warn them all. Could someone please explain this theory to me? Is there some information that I have gotten wrong? 

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Donor

Origins is set in either another reality or a different cycle. however they are not the same timeline. 

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Guest

Origins is set in either another reality or a different cycle. however they are not the same timeline. 

You don't have proof of that, its the same characters when they are younger without a doubt. Theres no logic behind it not being them, besides the dieselpunk theme.

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Donor

All the evidence points to them being another version of the Original 4 and not the actual original 4. It is impossible timeline wise for these events to have occured in yhe original timeline. The Giant is absolute proof of this. 

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Everyone has a theory and there's so little info so anyone can be right. I personally think they are in the same timeline. I still think Origins was more like MotD and SoE, where the characters were stuck in a cycle outside of the real world. Just like how MotD characters thought they were in the 30s but the Ferguson recording showed time had just moved on without them while they were trapped in a loop, I think Origins is somehow the O4 or O3 with Sam getting trapped in a cycle, perhaps after Moon. 

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I don't believe it is cyclical or an alternate reality, but part of an ongoing looping process in the same (not linear, but not cyclical) timeline. I do actually believe now in my Key Emblem Theory. 

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Donor

Maxis is killed and put in a drone

diesel punk is nonexistant in the normal universe

zombies are discovered earlier in Origins universe

Original richtofen does not remember being origins richtofen

The fact that Origins richtofen wanted to change the future would have had consequenences on Original richtofen if he was indeed te younger version of him. 

Events during the giant are the same even though Origins characters are removed from their time. 

If they were trying to prevent these events then why would someone still let the events of der riese happen so the Map the giant could take place? 

All the evidence points to Origins richtofen not being Original richtofen. 

He is either a different cycle or an alternate reality

 

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Guest

I think its an alternate reality but theres many explanations as to what happens to them to become the normal characters. For a start their memory could easily get wiped and for a second they could end up back in the normal universe thinking they had lived their for their whole lives. I am too tired to argue it, they said all maps are canon and have never branded Origins as anything else, its just people who cant be bothered to fit Origins into theories who say its in an alternate universe or barely has any effect on the main story.

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Donor

I think its an alternate reality but theres many explanations as to what happens to them to become the normal characters. For a start their memory could easily get wiped and for a second they could end up back in the normal universe thinking they had lived their for their whole lives. I am too tired to argue it, they said all maps are canon and have never branded Origins as anything else, its just people who cant be bothered to fit Origins into theories who say its in an alternate universe or barely has any effect on the main story.

just because the maps are canon doesn't mean they take place in the same universe. 

 

 

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Donor

They're not in a different timeline per say. The best way to describe it is us going back to a point in our original timeline, and changing the events to rewrite a new history. Whether you think we create a new timeline when we go back, or we rewrite our original timeline from that point on is your call to make. Though I will say in game evidence has shown we can indeed rewrite history.

Some people are under the impression that the controller in Aether is capable of creating new timelines or realities, but it's simply not true. The Controller in Aether can only manipulate time, specifically the past and present.

The controller is only able to go back to specific times in the past, and influence the events within it so that reality can be changed by the people living in it. If they do enough to change the past, the cycle of original events is broken, and a new history is written. If they don't do enough to change the past, the cycle of original events will continue.

That's how all of our maps have worked. We play, we die, we go to Aether, we are brought back to a point in time to repeat the events until they are changed. The controller can't actually bring people back to any point in the past, it can only bring souls back to a point in their own past to have them change their own history and thus change history for everyone.

That is what's happening with Origins. After Maxis gained control in Buried, he went back to a point in the original timeline, and tried to save Samantha. In the process, we changed the original events for the O4 so that the cycle is broken and history is rewritten.

The question becomes how much of Origins occured the first time, and how much was changed when we go back in Origins. Again this is left up to your discretion, but I personally believe a lot of Origins occurred in the original timeline. There is a lot of in-game evidence to support this.

Now onto the Maxis situation. We know in our original timeline that Maxis had Samantha in the 1930's, so there's no way his brain was removed in 1918. My assumption is that his brain was removed in the original timeline as well, but Richtofen completed the brain transplant and Maxis got a new body before having Samantha. In Origins, the O4 interrupt Richtofen's surgery, and Maxis is instead put in a drone. This created a paradox, which Maxis addresses at the end of Origins and supposedly has a plan to resolve.

Even if there isn't proof Maxis' brain was removed in the original timeline, we know that the Maxis we see in Origins couldn't of had Samantha. He was at least 70 in Origins, which would make him around 100 years old during the birth of Samantha. And since we know the Controller can't create it's own reality but can only revisit and influence the past, we know this Maxis wasn't just made up but existed originally.

 

Sorry for such a long post, but a complex question requires a complex answer. 

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It seems like Origins people are in another dimension, within the same reality. Meaning all laws of the universe apply, time, gravity ect ect... but they are in another spectrum. Sort of like a bicycle wheel, they all move the same direction, but they are spaced apart, so one follows the other, but they are all part of the same circle. 

The reason I have for that is simple, we've never seen giant robots or had any mention of the staffs. Otherwise G935's weaponry would have been more powerful, reliable and modeled more after the power of the staffs. This ofcourse, is my own idea, nobody knows for sure.

 

The real question would be, how can the Origins crew know the events that play out years after, and why Niki,Tak and Tank would have the slightest bit of trust toward Richtofen, knowing his counter version of himself was insane and manipulative.

My guesses are either A: They are aware the effects that element 115 had on the Doctor, and knowing (or at least assuming) Origins Richtofen doesn't have 115 poisoning, they can give him the benefit of the doubt.

Or B: They DONT know what happens through our original maps, and are once again "winging it" on the word of Richtofen.

Good question though, I know my response was barely an answer haha.

 

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I had always just assumed that Origins took place in another timeline/realtiy/dimension, but given the fact that the O4 look so much younger and also that we know they had their memories wiped before the events of [email protected], I now most certainly believe it's possible that Origins is infact within the same timeline and that in proving themselves to be capable warriors against this new zombie threat, Rictofen (after having his mid poisoned by 115) kidnapped the other 3 and began testing them, wiping their memories in the process. Thus Rictofen is the only one left who knows of the power of the Aether and with the memory of the events that took place in Origins, or at least what originally happened before Samantha went back to alter history.

The only thing that doesn't really make sense is the whole Maxis situation in Origins.

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@Shooter, you deserve UotM another 10 times over! @Tattoo247 and Kill_All_Monkeys, the same applies. Even if I believe something different slightly they are really good theories and I am glad some people don't just disregard as Origins as a whole.

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@Shooter Do not apologize, this is one of those explanations that, I believe, should be written on the wall. Brilliantly put, thank you.

TBH, the 'alternate timeline'/'alternate reality' is very unlike Treyarch. It's way too easy to explain. They think deeper than that because they know that we do too, and I think following up with BO2, the first three DLCs of which were rather shallow, I believe we're in for something much deeper than a 'clean slate' such as an alternate reality, universe, or dimension in which we can just pretend like nothing else in the past has influenced where we are going. 
 

Like I always say, from the winding staircases and dark cell blocks of Alcatraz, the words of the song echo across the Zombies universe-the single zombies Universe, made up of Agartha, Earth, and the Aether: "where are we going from HERE?

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I honestly think that because of some sort of intervention, Origins is in a parallel universe or something like a pocket one. Basically whats going on outside of Origins is not effected by whats happening in the map hence why when the O4 are travelling to Origins in the letters from the field, they only mention rumours of mechanical men etc. Thats what I always believed anyways, it would just go down in history as a crazy rumour that soldiers told, giant metal men and things powered by a mysterious element. The only people who survived and would know about this would be the O4 who even then had their minds wiped, I even believe Richtofen must have at a point or at least keeps everything about Origins secret.

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I honestly think that because of some sort of intervention, Origins is in a parallel universe or something like a pocket one. Basically whats going on outside of Origins is not effected by whats happening in the map hence why when the O4 are travelling to Origins in the letters from the field, they only mention rumours of mechanical men etc. Thats what I always believed anyways, it would just go down in history as a crazy rumour that soldiers told, giant metal men and things powered by a mysterious element. The only people who survived and would know about this would be the O4 who even then had their minds wiped, I even believe Richtofen must have at a point or at least keeps everything about Origins secret.

That's a good point, except that there would be a lot of evidence...unless there was a way of destroying it all, which I suppose is possible. However, it needn't be in an alternate reality. Like @Shooter was saying, the MPD has space-time continuum influence, but can only step individuals back to a point in their own past, or physically relocate them (ie, when Maxis was relocated from the "cavern" to Griffin Station, and when the N4 were relocated to Great Leap Forward. 

Which supports an argument I stand by - we're not dealing with "gods" or demi gods of some kind; they are not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent. 

Not omniscient: the controllers are only aware of certain applicable facts, (see Richtofen's relationship with SStulinger and his inability to hear or know what the others are doing/thinking/saying)

Not omnipresent: the controllers picked specific individuals to interact with. The rest were left to their own devices, (as we hear in Great Leap Forward)

Not omnipotent: the controller requires humans/zombies to be his/her/its' hands and feet. They are capable of mental influence in living individuals, and of physically, neurologically (though not mentally) controlling the undead (see-the voices that Richtofen and members of The Flesh hear, and SNN's "The One")

 

Even MotD and Shadows have the characters acting freely.

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I honestly think that because of some sort of intervention, Origins is in a parallel universe or something like a pocket one. Basically whats going on outside of Origins is not effected by whats happening in the map hence why when the O4 are travelling to Origins in the letters from the field, they only mention rumours of mechanical men etc. Thats what I always believed anyways, it would just go down in history as a crazy rumour that soldiers told, giant metal men and things powered by a mysterious element. The only people who survived and would know about this would be the O4 who even then had their minds wiped, I even believe Richtofen must have at a point or at least keeps everything about Origins secret.

That's a good point, except that there would be a lot of evidence...unless there was a way of destroying it all, which I suppose is possible. However, it needn't be in an alternate reality. Like @Shooter was saying, the MPD has space-time continuum influence, but can only step individuals back to a point in their own past, or physically relocate them (ie, when Maxis was relocated from the "cavern" to Griffin Station, and when the N4 were relocated to Great Leap Forward. 

Which supports an argument I stand by - we're not dealing with "gods" or demi gods of some kind; they are not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent. 

Not omniscient: the controllers are only aware of certain applicable facts, (see Richtofen's relationship with SStulinger and his inability to hear or know what the others are doing/thinking/saying)

Not omnipresent: the controllers picked specific individuals to interact with. The rest were left to their own devices, (as we hear in Great Leap Forward)

Not omnipotent: the controller requires humans/zombies to be his/her/its' hands and feet. They are capable of mental influence in living individuals, and mind physically, neurologically (though not mentally) controlling the undead (see-the voices that Richtofen and members of The Flesh hear, and SNN's "The One")

 

Even MotD and Shadows have the characters acting freely.

Yet again, another amazing point. Your completely right about everything. Like there is nothing you have said that I can say would be wrong or I don't even slightly agree with. Anyways about destroying evidence of Origins. Maybe thats what happens, it would make sense to be honest since its such a big place that is never talked about. Maybe because of the large amount of 115 or just paradoxes or anything really it slips out of time completely after the event of Origins.

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Yet again, another amazing point. Your completely right about everything. Like there is nothing you have said that I can say would be wrong or I don't even slightly agree with. Anyways about destroying evidence of Origins. Maybe thats what happens, it would make sense to be honest since its such a big place that is never talked about. Maybe because of the large amount of 115 or just paradoxes or anything really it slips out of time completely after the event of Origins. 

Haha! I very much appreciate this, coming from you, especially as we often (not always, but often) go head-to-head on theories. Glad we found a common ground! Thank you!

Oooooh...and that's a good point...or heck, maybe a 935 cleanup crew came in an effectively removed the evidence. They are, after all, sworn to secrecy. 

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Yet again, another amazing point. Your completely right about everything. Like there is nothing you have said that I can say would be wrong or I don't even slightly agree with. Anyways about destroying evidence of Origins. Maybe thats what happens, it would make sense to be honest since its such a big place that is never talked about. Maybe because of the large amount of 115 or just paradoxes or anything really it slips out of time completely after the event of Origins. 

Haha! I very much appreciate this, coming from you, especially as we often (not always, but often) go head-to-head on theories. Glad we found a common ground! Thank you!

Oooooh...and that's a good point...or heck, maybe a 935 cleanup crew came in an effectively removed the evidence. They are, after all, sworn to secrecy. 

Yeah and also another thing I thought of was the 115 Extraction Drill, looks like it decimates the ground beneath it and theres a note in Origins with a picture on it. So they could've used that.

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Haha! I very much appreciate this, coming from you, especially as we often (not always, but often) go head-to-head on theories. Glad we found a common ground! Thank you!

Oooooh...and that's a good point...or heck, maybe a 935 cleanup crew came in an effectively removed the evidence. They are, after all, sworn to secrecy. 

 

Yeah and also another thing I thought of was the 115 Extraction Drill, looks like it decimates the ground beneath it and theres a note in Origins with a picture on it. So they could've used that.

True. Well, until otherwise shown, there is realistic explanation for the virtual 'disappearance' of Excavation Site 64.

Heheh...I like the way that sounds - The Disappearance of Excavation Site 64.

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