This One's For You, MurderMachineX

[perfectlemonade]

This One’s For You, MurderMachineX

I am a flawed person. I am. Just like every person, there are things I am good at, and things I am poor at. Taking drawing, for instance. A classmate, commenting on my self-portrait I painted in 9th grade, told me that my face resembled one of the monsters in Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Which, if you don’t know what that looks like, I’ll leave it as a spoiler image. But be forewarned, it is quite scary!

In reality, I look nothing like this. Truly. I just look like a normal person.

My drawing skills are just one of my many weaknesses. Another weakness I am often plagued by is my blatant sense of favoritism in my writings. If you read a paper that is supposed to be neutral when dealing with sensitive topics, you will often find that it is, unfortunately, the farthest thing from neutral. My threads are no exception. Often, you will see me explain to you a scenario or problem that can have two possible solutions, each equally adequate, and then tell you that x-solution is the way to go, not y-solution, when, in fact, y-solution is just as good an outcome as x-solution is.

MurderMachineX, one of the best users on the site, has often spotted this and corrected me, and with good reason too! After I saw the points he has made and pondered his reasoning, it is safe to say that I have taken his suggestions, along with a comment or two by others that you will see in good time, to heart and have applied this logic to all my writings, be it threads, essays, or stories.

Perhaps I am not being clear with this. Let’s just take a look at some past threads…

Exhibit A)

This one comes straight out of my points guide. Here’re the original quotes, right from the thread.

Insta Kill- A powerup that gives you one-hit kill capabilities for thirty seconds, this can be sort of disappointing to get in the early rounds. I never complain, because one hit killing zombies can be awesome, but you lose out on a lot of hit marker points with Insta Kill. My suggestion is to never take this powerup, unless you have Double Points with it, in which case this deadly combo can lead you to a stunning 280 points per kill (260 for the melee, and 20 for the hit marker that comes with it [excluding round one]). To be honest, before round 15, I find this powerup to be very overrated. I’ll take a Double Points over Insta Kill all day and everyday.

Death Machine- A powerup that gives you this huge, bulky gun for 30 seconds, this thing absolutely kills your points. Entirely too powerful. Limits your mobility. Don’t take this unless you have to. Waste of points…

The Mystery Box.

You’ll want to spam it and spam it and spam it and spam it some more. But don’t. I beg you. When speaking in economic terms, the single most dangerous thing in Zombies to do is waste your points on the Mystery Box. You don’t want to do this. You don’t want to fall for its sick and twisted trap. Resist the urge to spend your points on the Mystery Box. Opt for something better, something more reliable, like a good, trusty wall gun.

Now for Murder’s response.

…Also, your entry on Insta-Kill is fallacious. Take Insta-Kill when you can. If you get it on early Rounds, then just knife the Zombies. Your bullets aren't going anywhere. You can resume using them when Insta-Kill wears off.

You entry on Death Machine is incorrect as well. The Death Machine gives you TONS of points. The ONLY way it "takes" away points is by killing Zombies you would've killed more efficiently. You don't realize, however, that you just had 30 seconds worth of free points, which would've used the ammo in your guns, which can now be used on other Zombies.

And you say don't waste points on the Box. I disagree. Go to the Box. Just don't go repeatedly. Wall guns are there if you don't get anything good.

The rest seems to be strategy which seems sound. So nothing I can say there.

It's a good thread. You put a lot of work in it. Good job.

Well, Mr. Machine, I thank you for your very detailed response! A lot of this stuff is truly situational, but after reading through some past works, I have decided that you make very, very solid points (no pun intended). Drops are always kind of iffy in the early rounds. It really just depends on what your goals are. If you are looking for a million point game, I personally feel that one should not take the Insta Kill or the Death Machine early on, but that’s just me.

However, that is only one side of this argument. I think I get what you’re saying, and this is basically it: if you pick up an Insta Kill or a Death Machine you are, in the long run, saving ammo, which can be used on zombies later on. By that logic, grabbing a Death Machine would surely result in more points.

To be honest, there are no right or wrong answers to this question. I have thought about this for SO long, and I’ve come up with the answer, finally. No matter how you look at it, whatever path you choose, to take the drop or to not take it, has its pluses and minuses. It’s a question without an answer. A paradox (kind of[not really]). Heh. Never thought you’d see a paradox arise in Zombies, would you?

So really, yes, Mr. Machine, you are 115% correct in your statement, but at the same time, I am 115% right as well. It just depends on how you look at it. That’s really all it is.

Exhibit

This one is from ‘Finding Your Comfort Zone’, a thread that our good friend jayghf1978 is a personal favorite of his.

Ok, well, I can’t really quote everything, so I’ll just leave it as a spoiler.

Finding Your Comfort Zone: The Balance Between Taking Risks and Being Conservative

Greetings, Codz! I bring to you today a relatively concise observation on a problem we often come across in almost every game: taking the conservative path, or the risky path. While you may not know it, situations arise every round where you must make a decision that will depend on your willingness to take risks. The quicker you recognize these situations and make that split-second decision that could mean the difference between life and death, ammo and no ammo, the better off you’ll be. I’m not saying to choose the risky path every time, but I’m not saying you should play like you’re scared either. There’s a balance that every good player has found. A balance between recklessness and timidity. And in this balance, you will find greatness, the greatness that is held within each and every one of us, just waiting to be unlocked.

Being Risky

We risk things everyday. We really do. Be it walking across a street, sipping coffee in a $400 suit, or only bringing one pencil to a standardized final exam, risks are an unavoidable part of life. And Zombies is no exception. The entire game revolves around your confidence—and ability—to take and survive risks. Risks will almost always result in an immediate reward, mainly drops but also a new weapon, a much needed perk, a downed teammate, and everything in between. However, risks also come with danger, in some cases extreme danger. Going after a max ammo, the Thundergun you just pulled from the box, the teammate bleeding out, can often times lead to your unfortunate death. So while taking risks can lead to benefit, you must also be wary over the dangers that come with risk taking.

No matter how deterred you are from being consumed by greed, human compassion, even necessity for ammo and perks, you will, eventually, be forced to take a risk at one time or another. It is simply unavoidable. You may tell yourself that you’re going to play it safe this game, that you won’t risk it all for a few extra kills, but the time will come when you must take a risk. And when that time comes, it is up to you to recognize these instances and make the right decision. When you find yourself making the right decisions almost every time, you know that you’ve reached the Big Leagues.

Now, I’m sure you’re wondering what exactly these risks are, and how you should go about reacting to these risks, but that is something only you can decide when the moment comes. I can list off the risks, tell you what I would do, but in reality, it is your risk to take. You could, in theory, dismiss every possible scenario that could result in a risk as unnecessary, just another way to die. But while conservatism in some cases is indeed needed at times, it is not a good way to play (I will get into this later) and will not give you the results you desire.

Taking blatant risks at obtaining everything you see, turning greedy, selfish, even arrogant, however, is equally unsatisfying as playing with complete and total fear. So that is why we must look at both sides of the spectrum, which leads me to the other side of this entire argument: conservatism.

Being Conservative

Conservatism, as I’ve already explained some, is the exact opposite of being risky: cowering in fear at every possible gamble you see. Okay, so perhaps ‘cowering’ isn’t exactly the right word, but I think I get my point across. A conservative player is not willing to go out on a limb, put his life (and the game) on the line for a Max Ammo that is flickering away, a downed teammate whose life is slipping into white.

However, as I’ve already said, you cannot simply play an entire game being fully conservative or fully risky. It is simply not possible. And if you do somehow pull it off, you will not survive for long. Playing conservative results in virtually no benefit for the player. Your game will become stale very, very fast, which will lead your mind off to other places, to the beach, to school, to work, to places that will get you killed. Once you lose your focus, it is only a matter of time before you find yourself making a mistake that will cost you a down, and that is last thing you want, especially in a solo game.

So in order to avoid these issues and to further advance your game, you must experiment with varying levels of reckless bravado and cowardice. This is a difficult thing to determine at times, when you are being risky or conservative. Granted, most of the time, it is quite obvious even to yourself and other players by just taking a quick peak at the in game leaderboards, but there are some instances where you make unconscious decisions and just go with ‘it’. It can be quite troublesome at times, but a good measure, for a beginner player at least, is this: if you are doing everything right, if you have done your homework, if you have a strategy in mind, and you are still going down, the problem might be you are either being too risky or too conservative. And the point of this entire thread is to help you find the center road between riskiness and conservatism. We’re almost to that point of really delving into what you can do to find that center road and how to know when you’ve found it, but before you do, you need to know what kind of risks you’ll be facing when you play zombies. So let’s take a look at some of these risks, shall we?

Situations

Max Ammo (And All Drops in General)

What it is- A floating, green box that will refill all of your ammunition, this powerup is widely hailed as the best drop in the whole game. This is a game changer and a lifesaver. A blessing from Sam.

Risks Involved- Like all drops, Max Ammo’s can spawn in poor, unsafe locations on the map due to Nukes, making them very difficult to get. In co op especially, you will often find yourself unable to get to a Max Ammo, or forcing your way through incredibly small gaps that you normally wouldn’t even dare to think about taking. You begin to rely on Max Ammo’s in later rounds, giving you a sort of survival instinct that is sometimes dangerous (and sometimes incredibly beneficial). You will find yourself going out on a limb to recycle your Wunder Weapon in later rounds, which I can tell you from personal experience, can lead to death as you will be kiting in areas that simply are not meant to be kited.

What I do- If you have ammo in reserve, blast it all away until you only have one clip left or the drop itself is blinking. This should lead to a nice gap opening up in the zombies, making picking up the drop a piece of cake. In the rare occasion that this does not happen, throw out your secondary grenades, which will undoubtedly allow you to pick up the Max Ammo.

Reviving

What it is- A teammate goes down, slapped one too many times by a mass of undead hot on their tail. You, being the noble, chivalric warrior of the group, decide to go out on a limb and save your pal.

Risks Involved- Well, for one, you usually have to go out of your usual kiting/camping spot to retrieve your fallen comrade. This will force you to dodge multiple zombies that are now headed straight for you—something that can be difficult for even the most advanced players. Moreover, you are often left vulnerable while actually reviving your teammate (though there is a way to combat this, which I will get into later)

What I do- When your teammate goes down, you have a short while to pick him up until he bleeds out. In most scenarios, you have more than enough time to gather up his zombies in the safety of your kiting spot. Then, sprint for your friend and revive him. However, this does not always work, and this is where things can get dicey. In this case, you will usually have to either a) throw out a secondary grenade to free up some space, use a power weapon to clear a hole, or c) dodge like hell. The balance, even when you have an additional pressure such as you have a very limited amount of time until your teammate dies, between just randomly sprinting up stairs and sharp corners where undead could be waiting for you and methodically making your way to the downed player is key to extending the game. I’ll post a video by none other than our valued member Tom852 showing us an additional revive tip: one that can be the difference, no matter if you have found your comfort zone yet or not.

gxZXC4mbztc

Midround Box Hits

What It Is- Usually only encountered on rounds 50+, the midround box hit is the ‘recycling’ of a Wunder Weapon because you are out of ammo and can be, undoubtedly, one of the most dangerous things in all of Zombies. With a full spawn already in the map, they aren’t really too incredibly bad (you’d be surprised at the spaces in which you can kite). No, what really kills you are the zombies that respawn and can block of your path, with absolutely nowhere to go and nothing to protect yourself with.

Risks Involved- Like I’ve already said, it’s incredibly dangerous to hit the box midround past the 50’s. You will be running out of ammo constantly, and must be incredibly sharp to avoid getting trapped. If there’s ever been a thing to hold me personally back on high rounds, it’s this.

What I do- Well, there’s not much to do in this situation. If you’re on a map with a plethora of traps available, by all means use those instead of going for a new Wunder Weapon. However, on maps without traps like Call of the Dead, Shangri La, or Nacht, you have to just go for it. There’s not much you can do to avoid getting trapped when doing this. Just pray and try to stay quick on your feet. Good luck.

There are countless other situations where you’ll need to either be conservative or risky, but these three are the ones that stick out to me. But before you’re even ready to truly tackle these on like a pro, you’ll need to find that balance, the comfort zone. So how do you do this? Well, let’s see.

Finding the Balance

Well, this thread is starting to wrap up, so I think it’s about time that we actually discuss what this thread is about: finding your comfort zone. Your comfort zone is the yin-yang of Zombies, the ebb and flow of tides, the sun and the moon. You’ve got to know when to do borderline stupid, greedy things, and when to retreat. So how do you find this? Well, for one, you experiment. I’ve already gotten into this quite a bit. You’ve got to think outside of the box when finding your comfort zone, put yourself in situations that really judge your skillset. Sure, some of these things you’ll find in most every game, but in order to really find that niche where you feel comfortable in your own shoes, you’ve got to go deeper than just reviving and dodging to pick up drops. You’ve got to go other places.

You’ve got to go to No Man’s Land.

I’m not a particularly good No Man’s Land player—my record is only 255—but in my month or so of playing, I can tell you that I have found my comfort zone. Undoubtedly. I have found when to dash through gaps and when to back off or cutback. I have found when to shoot, and when to do another lap to prevent not getting trapped by a zombie just a wee bit slower than all the rest. If you play No Man’s Land—if you really invest time in it and dedicate yourself to getting better—while also working on surviving the aforementioned scenarios, you will have found your comfort zone in no time. I guarantee it.

Well, that’s about it. I’ll finish with some general tips. This has been my first thread in a while—I’ve been busy, but I have something else in the works with another user on the site. Hope to get that out relatively soon. Thanks for reading!

General Tips

-Learn the art of the screenshake, sprint jump, and drag out

-Mess around with the sensitivity and button layout

-Try new perks

-Check around the site and the internet as a whole for other tips and tricks that will help you become a better player

-perfect

And Mr. Machine’s response:

I think this is an interesting type of guide. However, I feel you have an unfair bias of risk over conservatism. I had expected a 50/50 take, and you yourself say that you need a mix, but you seem to favor 70/30, which I don't really think does conservatism justice. Don't get me wrong though, it is a good guide

My dude, after reading through my guide again, you are right. I have always been more on the brave, risky, borderline-stupid side rather than the laid back, not-afraid-to-pause-in-solo-to-think-it-out, conservative side. And I will admit it, this state of mind accounts for 95% of my downs that are my fault. I just do stupid stuff. I go after that extra zombie for that extra 130 without Jug. I risk my life for that revive on round 4. I dive into a horde of Zombies for a Nuke on round 25.

And this is something I need to work on. For me at least, I think the skill is all there. Just had a game to 50 with 1 down. But you know what my one down was? It was trying to get through a gap, on 44, to cover for my partner, Vodstok, who had no Jug. He had to clutch it and come back to revive me with no Jug. I have thought about that down, about how I could’ve done it differently, about how I could’ve cutback instead of trying to sprint jump through a foot-wide gap and, let’s face, a cutback is far more conservative than a sprint jump.

So I’ll end this debate of conservatism versus bravado here: while I, and many other at least decent players are quite reckless with Zombies, there are countless others that are incredibly smart with their decisions (Superhands and Way2goo come to mind) and wouldn’t be caught dead in a situation that has not been completely thinked out first. This is the part of my game I am trying my hardest to improve on and I think that it’s reflective of my results. An explosion in No Man’s Land productivity, coupled with a near flawless gameplay, has proven that an increased focused on better decision-making and going the conservative path can really pay off in the long run for us risk-takers. So for that, I thank you very much. While I may not have done conservatism justice in this thread, I have done it justice by improving my game a lot due to the fact I have paid more attention to being conservative recently.

Exhibit C)

This one, the last counterargument I could find, comes from the debate on what your final two perks should be on classic maps. I made a thread to hopefully end it, but my boy way2goo had a different opinion on the subject. The original thread (spoiler again, because it’s not an exact quote that needed to be pointed out):

Author’s Note- This is mainly for co op. It’s pretty much accepted to go with the original four in solo. But in co op, it gets kinda dicey. I always go with Jug and Revive, so we’re assuming that these two are a given. The others, well, that’s what this thread is for!

Let’s End This: Mule Kick vs Double Tap vs Speed Cola

Hello everybody! Hope you guys are having a wonderful day. I have just gotten home from school, where I was taking my chemistry final exam. That class has been kicking my butt all year. I thought for sure I would bomb the final! Turns out, I got an 83 on the test! It’s not the best, but it’s pretty good compared to some of the other kids in the class. :D

Okay, I’m done talking about chemistry. What I wanted to come to you guys about today is the problematic question I often ask myself when playing the classic maps. As you know, Mule Kick was added to all the maps in September, which has caused some problems to rise when choosing your perks, especially in the World at War ones. I had decided long ago that I hated Mule Kick—the lack of being able to switch to an ‘OH SHIT’ weapon killed me one too many times—but when helping our pal Vodstok with his new, above top secret project, he made some really great points for buying Mule Kick over Double Tap or even Speed Cola. And has even made me change some of my views on the perk.

But first, let’s see what each perk does. I am far too lazy to write out my own perk breakdown, so I’ll just use this instead:

*Speed Cola* (3000)

Speed Cola speeds up your life! Well, mainly your reload time, which it decreases by 50%, meaning that you can reload all your favorite weapons faster! It can save your life in many situations, especially in camping, 3 and 4 player strategies where the zombies are constantly coming at you, leaving little time to reload. If you specialize in running large trains you might disregard this perk due to its high cost (2nd most among all perks), but as mentioned earlier, it increases your sprint time by about 2 seconds.

*Double Tap* (2000)

Your tap will now be doubled with this rapid-fire-on-steroids perk. It increases your fire rate 33%, meaning that automatic weapons fire with 33% of their normal RPM. Semi-auto's, pump-action and three burst guns get a quicker trigger. What does this mean? It definitely constitutes two things: 1) you will kill zombies faster and 2) your HK21 and RPK will be elevated to overpowered status.

However, Double Tap can also lead to another thing: waste of ammo. This can be prevented by firing into a horde/line of zombies (via a rape train or effective route) or by only using Double Tap for your HK21, the latter of which a lot of people do.

*Mule Kick* (4000)

Feeling heavy, like you can take on the world? Well, you can with 3 guns! The most expensive perk to date gives you, that's right, one more gun! However, the 4000 does not cover your gun purchase, so you're looking at putting down at least 4500 on being able to maximize this perk's usage. Otherwise, it's just a useless perk.

As you can see, every perk has their setbacks, be it a potential waste of ammo, additional time it takes to whip out a panic gun, or simply the sheer cost. But you’ll have to figure something out eventually and take your losses, because there’s only two slots available and three perks to buy.

So, Vodstok and I were talking about Verruckt, right? We both agreed that Speed Cola was in, no doubt (for the most part, Speed Cola always gets in. Except for one map). But we came to a disagreement when we came to Double Tap vs. Mule Kick. His argument was that, on a tight map with a lot of blind corners like Verruckt, you really need a so-called ‘running gun’ (namely, the Ballistic Knife) to give you that extra pop in your step so you can juke any zombies that stand in your way. Next you need a killing weapon and lastly you need a point-whoring weapon. And I saw the appeal in this. I really do. I understand why someone would want this setup. I mean, that extra 10% in your running speed the Ballistic Knife can give you is HUGE. And, on a map with Pack a Punch, the extra 10% can also really help you with those cross map revive sessions.

However, I disagree with what he’s saying. Why, you may ask? Well, let’s think it through. For most maps, and Verruckt is certainly no exception, your killing gun and your running gun are one on the same. I mean, I never go with the Ballistic Knife on maps like Verruckt, because you have the Ray Gun. The Ray Gun is a potent, potent killing machine. And this killing power is only amplified with the addition of Double Tap. While the Ray Gun does carry its splash damage, which is also amplified by Double Tap, in a sense, by the time it loses its firepower and you find yourself requiring more than two or three shots to take out zombies, you will be switching over to traps anyways. So really, what’s the point of the Ballistic Knife? Sure, it can help for high round dodging, but is it really worth it? Is it really worth the slower rate of fire on your point whoring weapons, which can have dangerous side effects as you try to keep your points up in the high rounds?

In my opinion, no. All you really need is a killing weapon and a point whoring weapon. The killing weapon will get you out of tight spaces on these maps without Flopper. Will it save you when you are cornered? Not necessarily. But will it clear a path in the zombies enough so you can dash through them? Yes. It will. Besides, if you have a Winter’s Howl and a Ballistic Knife on Verruckt, which one would you run with? Food for though.

And the Winter’s Howl actually makes this transition very nice, as I’m now going to talk about what I see as the exception to my philosophy. Yeah, you know what it is. I’m talking about FIVE. The map so many love to hate. As you know, there is no true power/panic weapon on this map, which means you have to rely on your own skill and a Crossbow to get you out of tight corners. So really, you only need a running gun (preferably a Crossbow, but there’s only one of those to go around) and point whoring weapon, right? Well, this works pretty well, until the Pentagon Thief rolls around, that is. This is often the downfall of so many great co op games. And this is why you need Mustang and Sally. These bad boys absolutely DESTROY the Thief. On any round. I keep them for only that and Insta Kill. Which leads me to proclaim FIVE as the only map in which Mule Kick is recommended. But perfect, should you buy it over Speed Cola or Double Tap, you may ask?

Well, I’d usually go with Speed, but the killing power that Double Tap brings to the table is insane. Especially if you’ve got an LMG or a Commando—something without the best rate of fire in the world, but can be easily remedied with some Double Tap. That is why I have started to abandon Speedy entirely on FIVE and just gone with Double Tap and Mule Kick. It may feel weird at first, as I'm sure you've become accustomed to quick reloads on most maps, but you will get used to it, eventually. It is not a 'gamechanger', so to speak. On the other hand, however, Double Tap can speed up the game tremendously, which is the very reason I value it on FIVE, as it already slow enough to begin with.

So, to sum things up, the basic idea is that most killing weapons and running weapons are, in fact, the same, so there’s no need for Mule Kick. The exception to this rule is on FIVE, where the Pentagon Thief will really mess you up. And that is why you need Mule Kick, so you can have a Thief killer (Mustang and Sally will do the trick) and maybe even get through the round with a Bonfire Sale.

Well, that’s all I’ve got! If you have anything to add, leave a comment! I’m out. PEACE.

-perfect

Way’s response:

Like always I will try and make this short. This is from my previous co-op expereinces.

I get Mule kick until I get my weapons of choice. In tough maps like Verrukt and Five I get mule kick instead of Revive, this way I can farm points with weapons I get from box until I get ray gun, monkeys and crossbow from the box. After Round 30 I down myself and get Quick revive. In high rounds (>40) Mule kick is useless if its a map that has traps. Crossbow/Wonder weapon and point maker is all you need. Rest is all traps. yea ballistics helps but its not a end of the world if you can't get it out of the box. Don't spend too much points trying to get that, cz or specter will do just fine while running loops. For five and Verrukt, Ray gun is the only power weapon for that map you can count on. And By "count on" I did not mean killing zombies but for defensive reasons. Screw winters howl, its completely useless. If you have to revive always make a full map loop. Don't rely on winters.

I still like the standard four perks. But get mule kick if you are struggling with box in starting rounds. Downs are just part of the game. All that matters is how you setup your guns for high rounds.

Hope this helps.

Loved this response. A lot. And you’re right. The tough maps, well, they can be a bitch, to be blunt. And while Revive helps, it does not have that immediate effect that can be a big boost for your morale that having Mule Kick can often have. You just feel… cooler, for lack of a better word, with a third gun. Screw revives, a third gun can be a gift from Heaven. And while the 4000 is a steep cost, it’ll be worth it in the end, as you’ll have loads of points to get all the goodies you want from the Mystery Box once it’s all said and done.

So I agree with this statement. Solo, no doubt, you need to go with the original four. It’s not even an argument. But co op, well, that’s where it gets interesting. You need that extra burst of firepower for those tough maps, and what better way to deliver on this necessity for a third gun? That’s why I hereby revise my argument and say that once you have your 3 perks (Jug, Speed, Double Tap) go with Mule Kick as your last perk on the tough co op maps, said maps being Verruckt, FIVE, and perhaps even Shi No Numa. Once you’re set and have a plethora of points, don’t be afraid to down yourself and trade out Mule Kick for Quick Revive, a running gun, and a point gun for those co op traps.

Ok guys, well that’s about all I’ve got. This has been a fun thread, finally had the opportunity to give some of these posts the proper response that they so dearly deserve! Thank you as always for reading. Leave your opinions on some of these matters below. Have a wonderful day!

Until next time…

-perfect

[Mr. Jay]

As lemonade said, there are times when both are right, there are time both are wrong. In this game I failed to find anyone wrong, just matter of preference.

I agree with some of murdermachine's comments and preferences, and agree with some of lemonade's preferences.

I can't say someone's idea is fallacious, I might say they do not fit my own strategies.

[way2g00d]

Hey Thanks for the mention. I just want to clarify that Mule kick could be a very useful perk. It can even get you through very high rounds with a bit of luck from drops. Skilled Players use this perk as a challenge to themself and see they can survive higher rounds like 40+. Mule kick could be a blessing , however the time taken to recycle guns from the box and amount of risk taken is just not worth it. So based on your partner's skill you need to pick between revive and Mule kick.

Lately I've noticed that points are least of a concern for me. As long as you get bowie and use your guns wisely don't worry too much about avoiding drops. Always take them, they will get you through the rounds quickly. Oh yea, On some maps Each down can cost you 10 grand to 40 grand per round if you keep going down constantly so remember to farm points as you go whenever you get a chance. Just don't get perked up too early. Wait till you have 15,000 - 20,000. Which is about Round 15 or above.

Regards,

way2g00

[Superhands]

Very well thought-out thread, a good reminder that we should consider others' opinions when writing these threads.

I believe I said that instakills are a waste of points in those early rounds - this can be true, but I still take them. I like to stay in the first room until enough points are made to open all of the doors to the big knife, and an instakill helps there.

One thing I will always say though, is you'll never see me using a death machine until I have my ideal weapon setup. Such a low amount of points when I could be knifing for those kills and making double the amount of points. Especially once I have my Bowie/Sickle.

[MysteryMachineX]

Oh. Wow. I'm stunned. Thank you. I didn't realize anyone really took what I said with too much weight... I gotta make a note to make sure I don't say anything stupid in the future

I like what you have to say on A and B.

But I'd like to say something about C. I think Mule Kick is a viable option, one that I usually choose because its my favorite.

Take Der Riese for instance, co-op. Five Perks, but you have to choose four. Which will you leave out? I leave out Quick Revive, every time. I agree the controversiality over Double Tap v. Mule Kick, but Quick Revive? With two good people, going down is infrequent. And whenever one does go down, I already have to gather up his and my hordes, perhaps throw a Monkey Bomb or crossbow bolt. Quick Revive makes no difference whatsoever. Is it unhelpful? No, but it's really not that great. I usually get to revive my teammates with a bunch of time to spare. If I can't get him with my Monkeys or Crossbow, Quick Revive won't make a difference.

But let's say you're on Solo. Then it's tricky. Then you have to have Quick Revive. So you have to drop either Double Tap or Mule Kick. I say drop Double Tap. Double Tap speeds up fire; that's it. It makes the game go by quicker. That's not a necessity; that's a luxury! Mule Kick isn't exactly necessary either, but it has practical use. Especially on Der Riese. Your third weapon is a point. Your other two, you choose two out of the following three: Wunderwaffe, Crossbow, Ray Gun. Pretty much any combo will do you well. One for emergencies, the other for killing those pesky mid-Round dogs. The fact that there are traps on the map makes it MORE of a reason to get Mule Kick. You'll be using traps most of the time, not shooting. So Double-Tap is more readily wasted.

How about Verruckt? Well it has traps, so it could go either way. I use Mule Kick usually, and if survive to incredibly high Rounds (as in Rounds to where the Winter's Howl is ACTUALLY ineffective, not just weak), then I consider switching to Double-Tap.

Shi No Numa I think could go either way. It has dogs, but they're rather easy.

Honestly though, Kino and "Five" have the same problems.

Anyway, that's just my take on it. I do appreciate this thread. I'm thankful that you value what I say, even if you don't fully agree. Seeing my name in the title of a thread was a bit of a shocker :P