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Did Five, Ascension, and possibly Kino Der Toten,ever exist?


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Hello zombies, I am here to give you a very big idea, that might change everything that we though we knew about the zombies storyline.

I know that many of you said they were just for fun, but I think that they are deeper than that.

This going to a rough concept, so stick with me here.

So what happens at Five?

Date: October 1962

location: Pentagon

Well it is INCREDIBLY apparent, that the government here went to Kino Der Toten, and took things from it, and reverse engineered them. Constant things we see in common especially in the labs, the box, the brain diagrams, the weapons, the nova crawlers, barrels, tele porter pieces, trap parts, power switch, etc. On the first floor, we see perks, the chalkboards, and the wooden model of Kino from Sam's bedroom. And on the second a lot of perks, the Pack a Punch in the presidents conference room, and pictures on the wall of Richtofen and the blank portrait. But the perks made the staff get infected and outbreak happened.

What happens at Ascension?

Date:October 1962

Location: ?

Well at Ascension they are in the middle of the space race since it's the same time as Five. Also doing experiments for weapon research. Major project, Project Mercury led by russian co opted scientists Dr. Gersch, ex-Group 935. Working to create a black hole device for whatever reasons, and using monkeys to harvest 115 rocks from the moon. But Yuri is contacted by Samantha and pushed into doing her bidding and sucking up Gersch with a device and sending him to her. Then for unknown reasons and outbreak occurs.

What Happens at Kino Der Toten?

Date: 1965-1969

Location: Berlin

Well before the characters arrived, it was a base for experimentation with the Vril ya subjects from the Tibetan expedition, as well as finishing the mind control experiments, and more weapon research. Also double functioned as a presentation to the Third Reich to influence continuation of funding.

But how does this all conflict?

Well at Five and Ascension, the phones have proven they are at the same time, and that you are in a Cuban Missile Crisis meeting, it is 1962. So this means that the USA govt. robbing kino der toten happened before this date. But yet the Russians are also experimenting with the ThunderGun you can tell from the radios "Project Thunder", which was created at Kino. So how could they be taking it all from the same place? And then, the terminal only states what was recovered from Verruckt and Der Riese, nothing about a theatre. And then at Kino, there is a TON of conflicting evidence. The wall and the berlin tv tower prove this map MUST have taken place between 1965-1969. And we know since experiments started to fail big time in the mid-late 40s, the events at Kino must have happened decades earlier. BUT, there are notes dating from 1975! Also, if the government came in 1962 and took all of the technology at the base, how can it all be undisturbed in 1965? and better yet, Faust, said once that the characters can be seen in the theatre posters, and Richtofen experimented on them and made them perform plays here for the Third Reich. EXCEPT, this couldn't have happened! Richtofen didn't know that Kino Der Toten existed when he went back in time!

So what does this seem to be pointing at big time?

Kino Der Toten never happened in our characters timeline! It is from a parallel dimension! Just look how all the dates are messed up, 1965, 1945, 1975. Nothing adds up!

BUT Five and Ascension didn't exist then either!

For Five to have happened, Kino would have had to exist in that timeline, so that cancels. And Five has the 1975 notes as well, but how can that work when it's in 1962? once again, altered dimension.

Ascension, has nothing directly relating to the storyline beforehand except Samantha, and she can travel dimension to dimension. She took them here to toss them off coarse.

So in conclusion, non of these maps happened in their timeline!

It was done by Sam to throw them off coarse, until they ended up at Call of the Dead, where richotofen got the Vril rod so he could use it to teleport them to Shangri La, and use the Focusing Stone to take them to Area 51, and then that one would take them to Moon.

I know it's all really a major twist and far-fetched, but what do you guys think?

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I think it's too overly complicated that way. Besides, if your theory that Ascension goes back before Kino is correct, then can't a paper from 1975 come back with someone else as well? It doesn't always have to be complicated.

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I think it's too overly complicated that way. Besides, if your theory that Ascension goes back before Kino is correct, then can't a paper from 1975 come back with someone else as well? It doesn't always have to be complicated.

That's not the big point. The big point is that the characters presence their is seen in the pictures and such, except none of them, even Richtofen recall anything about the place.

And if it was real, and such a success, the group would hade had more funding and not fallen like we know it did.

ergo, it's rather possible it's just an alternate dimension.

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I'm going with the not so overly complicated idea, saying that it's a normal timeline. The characters don't have to be there to have there pictures there. Maybe they were just being honored for the experiments (carried out by Richtofen, hence the bigger picture) with all of them. Or rather, just recognition. I don't know.

BTW, there was no success, or there was, but all was lost before funding was gained.

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Well there could be multiple timelines. The alpha time line and doomed timelines. The alpha timeline would be the one we follow and the doom timelines would be so unacceptable that everyone and everything in them would need to die. A example of this would be Richtofen dieing at Ascension. If this had happened the crew would of likely never teleported to Call of the Dead and would of died. Such a event would be unacceptable and is thus destined to happen in a doomed timeline.

Now because doomed timelines are destined to die, everyone in said timeline must die as well. Which means if your theory is correct all the characters are destined to die no matter what there future or past actions are.

Now this if far to confusing for Treyarch to cover in DLC three months apart from each other, so I would have to say your theory is highly possible, but is almost impossible to actually happen with the way the zombies story line is told.

But the simple answer would be: Weird time shit.

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Expand your minds: viewtopic.php?f=68&t=19044

Nice theory, man. I think it's a pretty cool way of thinking about it, until everything is confirmed and denied, or will it ever be? 8-)

thanks man

I'm not really sure I'm 100% for his theory, but there are things which seriously don't add up here. I mean Richtofen is confused about the base, yet it is implied he performed plays here, and was famed here, and he had a fourth subject who is unknown by us all. It's all very odd.

And we are jumping through time and space so anything is possible

Also it's in a game where Wood's main quote is : "Everything you know is Lie"

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I think it's too overly complicated that way. Besides, if your theory that Ascension goes back before Kino is correct, then can't a paper from 1975 come back with someone else as well? It doesn't always have to be complicated.

That's not the big point. The big point is that the characters presence their is seen in the pictures and such, except none of them, even Richtofen recall anything about the place.

And if it was real, and such a success, the group would hade had more funding and not fallen like we know it did.

ergo, it's rather possible it's just an alternate dimension.

Maybe Samantha put the pictures there, she might have needed them to there to find something so she could be brought back/gain revenge on Richtofen like she wanted. Lets look at the easter eggs, is there anything in any of the EEs that could have made the next map possible/needed after Kino?

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Dude, In Ascension we got the Kassimir mechanism up and running, which Richtoffen needs in the Moon easter egg. So Ascension HAD to have happenned, but you might be right about Kino and Five, as we don't know much about the place or time, plus, they'd have to go from Germany to Russia (who knows where IN russia) on foot. So yeah.

Ascension happened.

Since Ascension happened, Five had to have happened as well. (unless they used inter dimensional phones)

Kino might not have?

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Maybe Kino was just to help jump start the storyline again, it had meaning in the story as the theater was where Maxis (Richtofen also?) used the film player to re-institute the subjects. I cant really remember any easter eggs that were there in order for it to need to be there. But it seemed Richtofen new of the place just not when it was.

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Dude, In Ascension we got the Kassimir mechanism up and running, which Richtoffen needs in the Moon easter egg. So Ascension HAD to have happenned, but you might be right about Kino and Five, as we don't know much about the place or time, plus, they'd have to go from Germany to Russia (who knows where IN russia) on foot. So yeah.

Ascension happened.

Since Ascension happened, Five had to have happened as well. (unless they used inter dimensional phones)

Kino might not have?

Well it is possible they didn't happen. The Kasimir Mechanism only free'd Gersch, nothing at all to do with Moon.

The Casimir mechanism is named after the effect which Richtofen uses the beryllium plates from area 51 to create to charge the vril generator.

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Dude, In Ascension we got the Kassimir mechanism up and running, which Richtoffen needs in the Moon easter egg. So Ascension HAD to have happenned, but you might be right about Kino and Five, as we don't know much about the place or time, plus, they'd have to go from Germany to Russia (who knows where IN russia) on foot. So yeah.

Ascension happened.

Since Ascension happened, Five had to have happened as well. (unless they used inter dimensional phones)

Kino might not have?

Well it is possible they didn't happen. The Kasimir Mechanism only free'd Gersch, nothing at all to do with Moon.

The Casimir mechanism is named after the effect which Richtofen uses the beryllium plates from area 51 to create to charge the vril generator.

I'm not really big on the berillium plate super-complex stuff, (I'm going to lose this argument aren't I?) but while he's at the terminal punching in whatever codes he needs, Richtoffen says he needs to power up the Kassimir Mechanism, presumably to make the M. P.D. Or something else work. 'Cause to my understanding (I'm probably wrong) the Kassimir Mechanism isn't a mechanism, but some kind of power relay.

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Dude, In Ascension we got the Kassimir mechanism up and running, which Richtoffen needs in the Moon easter egg. So Ascension HAD to have happenned, but you might be right about Kino and Five, as we don't know much about the place or time, plus, they'd have to go from Germany to Russia (who knows where IN russia) on foot. So yeah.

Ascension happened.

Since Ascension happened, Five had to have happened as well. (unless they used inter dimensional phones)

Kino might not have?

Well it is possible they didn't happen. The Kasimir Mechanism only free'd Gersch, nothing at all to do with Moon.

The Casimir mechanism is named after the effect which Richtofen uses the beryllium plates from area 51 to create to charge the vril generator.

I'm not really big on the berillium plate super-complex stuff, (I'm going to lose this argument aren't I?) but while he's at the terminal punching in whatever codes he needs, Richtoffen says he needs to power up the Kassimir Mechanism, presumably to make the M. P.D. Or something else work. 'Cause to my understanding (I'm probably wrong) the Kassimir Mechanism isn't a mechanism, but some kind of power relay.

Oh, I see what you mean. You see, the casimir mechanism is just used to describe the machines which generate the effect. The one on moon was just that tiny machine next to the terminal. Using th plates he created a casimir effect to charge the golden rod (vril generator) so it could function and activated the MPD.

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So... The terminal in moon is part of the Kassimir Mechanism or not?

The little boxy machine next to it is the Casimir Mechanism. The conduit or cord you connect between them allows the terminal to control the Casimir Mechanism.

btw it's Casimir not Kassimir, cod wiki is wrong. It's supposed to be after the discovery by Hendrick's Casimir, and the Casimir Effect. :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

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So... The terminal in moon is part of the Kassimir Mechanism or not?

The little boxy machine next to it is the Casimir Mechanism. The conduit or cord you connect between them allows the terminal to control the Casimir Mechanism.

btw it's Casimir not Kassimir, cod wiki is wrong. It's supposed to be after the discovery by Hendrick's Casimir, and the Casimir Effect. :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

Thank you for clarification.

But if it's connected to the Cassimir Mechanism, it still means Ascension happenned.

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So... The terminal in moon is part of the Kassimir Mechanism or not?

The little boxy machine next to it is the Casimir Mechanism. The conduit or cord you connect between them allows the terminal to control the Casimir Mechanism.

btw it's Casimir not Kassimir, cod wiki is wrong. It's supposed to be after the discovery by Hendrick's Casimir, and the Casimir Effect. :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

Thank you for clarification.

But if it's connected to the Cassimir Mechanism, it still means Ascension happenned.

Not necessarily, because they are two different Casimir Mechanisms. The one on Ascension just freed Gersch and teleported them out of that dimension in this theory. By not happening, I should word it more carefully: 'didn't not happen in the same timeline as the other maps because they are alternate parallel dimensions'

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The wired part is, you don't have to charge up a casimir mechanism, which (as you might have said) is the thing with the two plates. So maybe when we shot all the ray gun shots and stuff into the Gersche device, (never done it but pretty sure it happens) we charge it with 115, and the computer terminal actually makes the 115 work or something, and that's what fuses the golden rod and focusing stone together, (maybe reacting to the 115 in the FS)

Just a theory, but it would mean that Ascension happenned.

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To quote Biggie, a famous American rapper: It was all a dream.

I don't believe any of this happened.

It would make WAY more sense, if all of this was Samantha's dream.

Hearing about the war, she imagines all of these guns, and "wonder-weapons".

In her dream, she overwatches the crew, but eventually she starts to get bored with them, and invents new members.

She gets so bored, that she switches places with Richtofen.

Just some food for thought.

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I wont be suprised if theres a whole Time travel BS thing that goes on that makes it so it all technically happened, but traveling through time ends with NONE of it happening (even though the characters still went through the events, they do something that ultimately prevents them from happening.) Just a random possibility. Not saying it will happen, but it will definately not suprise me one bit.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello zombies, I am here to give you a very big idea, that might change everything that we though we knew about the zombies storyline.

I know that many of you said they were just for fun, but I think that they are deeper than that.

This going to a rough concept, so stick with me here.

So what happens at Five?

Date: October 1962

location: Pentagon

Well it is INCREDIBLY apparent, that the government here went to Kino Der Toten, and took things from it, and reverse engineered them. Constant things we see in common especially in the labs, the box, the brain diagrams, the weapons, the nova crawlers, barrels, tele porter pieces, trap parts, power switch, etc. On the first floor, we see perks, the chalkboards, and the wooden model of Kino from Sam's bedroom. And on the second a lot of perks, the Pack a Punch in the presidents conference room, and pictures on the wall of Richtofen and the blank portrait. But the perks made the staff get infected and outbreak happened.

What happens at Ascension?

Date:October 1962

Location: ?

Well at Ascension they are in the middle of the space race since it's the same time as Five. Also doing experiments for weapon research. Major project, Project Mercury led by russian co opted scientists Dr. Gersch, ex-Group 935. Working to create a black hole device for whatever reasons, and using monkeys to harvest 115 rocks from the moon. But Yuri is contacted by Samantha and pushed into doing her bidding and sucking up Gersch with a device and sending him to her. Then for unknown reasons and outbreak occurs.

What Happens at Kino Der Toten?

Date: 1965-1969

Location: Berlin

Well before the characters arrived, it was a base for experimentation with the Vril ya subjects from the Tibetan expedition, as well as finishing the mind control experiments, and more weapon research. Also double functioned as a presentation to the Third Reich to influence continuation of funding.

But how does this all conflict?

Well at Five and Ascension, the phones have proven they are at the same time, and that you are in a Cuban Missile Crisis meeting, it is 1962. So this means that the USA govt. robbing kino der toten happened before this date. But yet the Russians are also experimenting with the ThunderGun you can tell from the radios "Project Thunder", which was created at Kino. So how could they be taking it all from the same place? And then, the terminal only states what was recovered from Verruckt and Der Riese, nothing about a theatre. And then at Kino, there is a TON of conflicting evidence. The wall and the berlin tv tower prove this map MUST have taken place between 1965-1969. And we know since experiments started to fail big time in the mid-late 40s, the events at Kino must have happened decades earlier. BUT, there are notes dating from 1975! Also, if the government came in 1962 and took all of the technology at the base, how can it all be undisturbed in 1965? and better yet, Faust, said once that the characters can be seen in the theatre posters, and Richtofen experimented on them and made them perform plays here for the Third Reich. EXCEPT, this couldn't have happened! Richtofen didn't know that Kino Der Toten existed when he went back in time!

So what does this seem to be pointing at big time?

Kino Der Toten never happened in our characters timeline! It is from a parallel dimension! Just look how all the dates are messed up, 1965, 1945, 1975. Nothing adds up!

BUT Five and Ascension didn't exist then either!

For Five to have happened, Kino would have had to exist in that timeline, so that cancels. And Five has the 1975 notes as well, but how can that work when it's in 1962? once again, altered dimension.

Ascension, has nothing directly relating to the storyline beforehand except Samantha, and she can travel dimension to dimension. She took them here to toss them off coarse.

So in conclusion, non of these maps happened in their timeline!

It was done by Sam to throw them off coarse, until they ended up at Call of the Dead, where richotofen got the Vril rod so he could use it to teleport them to Shangri La, and use the Focusing Stone to take them to Area 51, and then that one would take them to Moon.

I know it's all really a major twist and far-fetched, but what do you guys think?

so if there in an alternate or parrellel universe did zombies not get as bad as it said or did it just not happen? :?:

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In my opinion, the Americans never really ransacked Kino. I mean maybe since they have the Thundergun, but as you say, in the Terminal there is nothing about a theater. I think that they could have easily gotten everything anywhere else. But the Thundergun does confuse things.

As for Project Thunder, it was a different version of the Thundergun. I believe that the Thundergun was included in Kino as more of a last second thing because he mentions the DG-3, but we basically already have that. On top of that, in the opening radio for Kino, he asks what happened to the little girl (Sam). But we know that way before that, Sam went into the pyramid, so to me, Kino is just one of those maps that makes no sense. At the latest, Ascension happens in November of 1963. The Fernsehturm wasn't even near completion in late 1968, so Kino is just the most confusing map EVER.

I think that the 1975 are either actually reading like '35, or they are just there to be there. The thing with time is that when you time-travel, you automatically enter a new dimension. So technically a parallel dimension is already happening.

Faust, said once that the characters can be seen in the theatre posters, and Richtofen experimented on them and made them perform plays here for the Third Reich. EXCEPT, this couldn't have happened! Richtofen didn't know that Kino Der Toten existed when he went back in time!

I have seen the posters for myself and heard his argument and it makes no sense. No offense to Faust, I love him more than most, but his argument doesn't make all that much sense. To be honest, it is not implied that he did any plays there at all.

As for the pictures, I just think it means recognition. If Kino was a 935 base, then it is not surprising that the assistant researcher would have a poster of himself in the base.

I think that is more just really confusing than actually not happening.

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A few questions I have:

1. How do we know R doesn't know what Kino is? Radios don't say that. He seems to realize what it is in the solo loading screen. In the recently released music video from 3arc, Dempsey says "Where are we" but R says "When are we"

2. Casimir mechanism is in Moon and Ascension. Ascension happened, which means Five happened.

I think we all need to remember a very important fact that probably skewed the story a bit. Kino was supposed to be map pack 4 for WaW. Activision said no, so they had to remodel it to make it in the 60s, the time of Black Ops. I'm sure y'all have seen the concept drawings for Kino where it looks like an active facility.

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