Accumulating Storyline

[Guest MurderMachineX]

It's a poster; Kino der Toten is a theatre, where advertising is common. A bit Satanic a reference? Maybe. But a reference is all. There are many more posters in the game that have even less importance, so why should this one be any more important? Demonic Announcer? Ha! That's the Call of Duty Wiki speaking right there. They never did understand that the "Demonic Announcer" and Samantha were the same entity. And H*llhounds reference much more than just Satan. They are present in many cultures, even Greek, representing darkness and death, which is exactly what they bring.

Yes, Zombies has been very cult-ish, with the Nazis, Vril-Ya, and the like. So it does not surprise me to see a Satanic reference or two. But that's all they are. References. Allusions. It has no more to do with the story than Takeo's references to ghosts.

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Still, we are all posing theories. It becomes a question of where to stop; why not interpret the allusions as significant? The allusions work in the story and are recurring, thus becoming motifs, thus becoming the story's style. In all stories, we can take a look at style, its effect and how both work together to create meaning.

It's all educated discussion in the end, and there are clear arguments for both sides. Something just tells me that there's a Devil in this all.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Not every allusion is significant. Many stories have some that really don't even matter, like Hamlet, for example. The allusions are not necessary to know a theme.

You can believe there is a devil involved in the story just as easily as you could believe in one in real life. There is evidence for it in both places, evidence that is mostly up to interpretation.

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Not every allusion is significant. Many stories have some that really don't even matter, like Hamlet, for example. The allusions are not necessary to know a theme.

You can believe there is a devil involved in the story just as easily as you could believe in one in real life. There is evidence for it in both places, evidence that is mostly up to interpretation.

Exactly. In the end, isn't it just up to us to decipher the facts, the scraps of evidence to piece together a theory? Until things are confirmed, we can't really be sure, but it sure is fun to go back and forth. What do you think about alchemy's presence in the story as it relates to black magic? Same opinion?

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Could you be more specific to what you're referring to with alchemy?

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

WHAT?! You haven't seen Star Wars?!?! You need to get on Netflix asap, it's a classic.

And also, how do we not know that Satan was once one of the Vril ya, but imprisoned in Aether for his crimes?

There's to much evidence for him to be involved. I mean the pyramids and the pentagons, I agree they are basic shapes of any drawing, they're bound to appear anywhere if you look hard enough. but as shoreyo said things such as the demonic announcer and samantha telling richtofen that a greater threat than him exists...

it's pretty clear now what they're getting at.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Lol. I was never really interested.

Satan can't be a Vril-Ya, because, well, he's Satan. Christianity says what he is, and it is not human. Vril-Ya are human (-esque [subhuman]). But there is no Demonic Announcer. That's just Samantha talking. As for Samantha saying that there is a greater threat, remember that she is German talking to another German, both who were living under Nazi control. They were in a Christian society. She is saying that he is going down to Hades when he dies. Is that a Satanic reference? Yes, but it is just her belief. The characters can have religion. It doesn't say that the Devil himself is involved in any physical way different from real life.

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

Lol. I was never really interested.

Satan can't be a Vril-Ya, because, well, he's Satan. Christianity says what he is, and it is not human. Vril-Ya are human (-esque [subhuman]). But there is no Demonic Announcer. That's just Samantha talking. As for Samantha saying that there is a greater threat, remember that she is German talking to another German, both who were living under Nazi control. They were in a Christian society. She is saying that he is going down to Hades when he dies. Is that a Satanic reference? Yes, but it is just her belief. The characters can have religion. It doesn't say that the Devil himself is involved in any physical way different from real life.

How come? Obviously Christianity isn't true in this world of zombies.

And why not be a vril ya? They are supposed to be like angels, and lucifer was a fallen angel. It adds up.

Lucifer was one of the vril ya

He tried to take all the power of the vril for himself

They banished him to aether via the MPD

He waits for Richtofen to touch the MPD

links him to aether so satan can speak to him

instructs richtofen to all of his horrid deeds

in the end knowing the result of getting richtofen back in the MPD, by predicting the simple humans' reactions to the events, the nukes would be launched at earth.

the sweet sweet revenge was destroying the earth, and wiping out the vril ya population beneath the surface as revenge for imprisoning him in aether.

That pretty much sums up what my beliefs of it are.

[Guest Matuzz]

Vril Ya's are aliens from a different galaxy that came to Earth gave humans knowledge and then they started living in Agartha.

They are the perfect Ayran race that Nazis were seeking for.

[Guest Tac]

Personally I believe that Satan is imprisoned inside the pyramid, or maybe Aether, but they are rather similar to be honest.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

@BlindBusDrive: I think it adds too many events to the unseen storyline. To make a couple holes fit -- which really don't need to be filled to be honest. There's no gaps in the story that need to be filled with Satan pulling the strings. It is something extra added on top of the story, a hidden layer over it, or underneath if you will. -- it adds a bunch of events not seen. It's kinda like analyzing a piece of literature. You can analyze the meaning behind things, but when you get to the point that you're making more events then what is supported, it's too far.

Also, the Vril-Ya were not angels, but rather angelic. They could be mistakenly taken as angels by an ignorant observer. They had mechanical wings that they adorned. A banished Vril-Ya could theoretically be possible, and he be perceived as an angel who fell, becoming known as Satan, all that is possible, but then he wouldn't actually be Satan and have all that power; he'd just be a Vril-Ya. And there are much easier ways to destroy the world with a vril staff. That is precisely why in the original novel Vril, Edward Bulwer-Lytton did not allow his Gy (female Vril-Ya) girlfriend come along with him to the surface; she could destroy anything in one sweep just in a wave of anger. Again though, allotting its possibility, I still think it adds to many hidden, unseen events not supported directly by any evidence.

@Matuzz: You seem to be talking as if its a fact, but you show no proof nor evidence nor theory. So I assume you have a thread discussing all that for you that you are referencing. If so, would you care to link and maybe discuss?

@Tac: Well, I'm pretty sure he is irrefutably not in the Pyramid (on the Moon). It opens and you can see only Samantha's body.

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

I can understand if you don't believe Satan is in the story but can you accept that there is something living in the Aether?

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Something living? Like Samantha's soul was before Richtofen replaced it? Or Gersch's soul maybe?

[Guest Ehjookayted]

Well Aether is equivalent to soul, and was as Plato defined, that which God used to delineate the universe, and in some ways, is the air that all higher beings breathe in (according to Greek mythology). Aether can represent the upper air (heaven, realm of the angels), or the universe itself, a beacon of power and control, thus requiring it to have some inhabitant. The Aether is an extremely important and aptly named symbol that helps us obtain greater meaning from the storyline at this juncture.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

While that's the mythical origins of it... or just a line of poetry , Richtofen mentions in one of the Radios that the Pyramid is a link with another dimension, and with all the reference to Aether, I think this means Aether is in another dimension.

[Guest Monopoly Mac]

Well he did say "all signs point to this device being a stable gateway to the Aether".

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Yes, I believe he did.

Anyway, here's a proposition. Don't accept it unless you actually do.

This storyline is a detailed description of the storyline as best as it can be, using all evidence and theories to connect such evidence. However, there are theories that are even bigger than that, even more mind-blowing than what you may read here. Some of them very well may be true. Some of them may not be. Whether they are or not, such theories are like a gloss layer. The reader can believe in the theory or theories he wishes, which can be coated upon this skeletal storyline at his own desire; thus no one is forced to believe a way that he does not think unless evidence mandates it.

I was thinking, after having typed that, that if it goes well, maybe I could add that at the top of the storyline. Because there are always going to be new theories we users make, and whenever we finish this storyline, that isn't going to change. This storyine can be just the layout, the raw events, with as much data as possible, while you guys can do what you do best, make your theories, because isn't that what Codz is about? No matter what we do, you can't prove that Satan absolutely must exist in the story, but I can't prove you wrong. So I say leave out Satan, chaos theory, angels perhaps, and let the observer come to his own conclusion.

What do you think?

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

Yes, I believe he did.

Anyway, here's a proposition. Don't accept it unless you actually do.

This storyline is a detailed description of the storyline as best as it can be, using all evidence and theories to connect such evidence. However, there are theories that are even bigger than that, even more mind-blowing than what you may read here. Some of them very well may be true. Some of them may not be. Whether they are or not, such theories are like a gloss layer. The reader can believe in the theory or theories he wishes, which can be coated upon this skeletal storyline at his own desire; thus no one is forced to believe a way that he does not think unless evidence mandates it.

I was thinking, after having typed that, that if it goes well, maybe I could add that at the top of the storyline. Because there are always going to be new theories we users make, and whenever we finish this storyline, that isn't going to change. This storyine can be just the layout, the raw events, with as much data as possible, while you guys can do what you do best, make your theories, because isn't that what Codz is about? No matter what we do, you can't prove that Satan absolutely must exist in the story, but I can't prove you wrong. So I say leave out Satan, chaos theory, angels perhaps, and let the observer come to his own conclusion.

What do you think?

well the chaos theory and the 'angels'/vril ya do exist in the story. They aren't angels, but people who can't understand that call them that. Thus, why people thousands of years ago at shangri la might have viewed them as angels/gods.

and for chaos theory-

Almost everything that happened in this story was mainly because Maxis criticized Richtofen and his tele porter. Which led him to complete it in secret and accidentally make it link to Moon.

And the Vril ya have obvious relevance to the story, the vril are even mentioned in the radios and we SEE diagrams of their flying saucers at der riese and hold their generator in our inventory for 3 maps.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

That's my point. Vril-Ya are mentioned in the story, so they are evidence.

As for the Maxis criticizing Ricthofen, I think that's a bit of a stretch. That's like saying Hitler conquered Germany because his mom grounded him. While it did happen, and event followed event. Maxis criticizing him wasn't the catalyst of any event.

[Guest Matuzz]

@BlindBusDrive: I think it adds too many events to the unseen storyline. To make a couple holes fit -- which really don't need to be filled to be honest. There's no gaps in the story that need to be filled with Satan pulling the strings. It is something extra added on top of the story, a hidden layer over it, or underneath if you will. -- it adds a bunch of events not seen. It's kinda like analyzing a piece of literature. You can analyze the meaning behind things, but when you get to the point that you're making more events then what is supported, it's too far.

Also, the Vril-Ya were not angels, but rather angelic. They could be mistakenly taken as angels by an ignorant observer. They had mechanical wings that they adorned. A banished Vril-Ya could theoretically be possible, and he be perceived as an angel who fell, becoming known as Satan, all that is possible, but then he wouldn't actually be Satan and have all that power; he'd just be a Vril-Ya. And there are much easier ways to destroy the world with a vril staff. That is precisely why in the original novel Vril, Edward Bulwer-Lytton did not allow his Gy (female Vril-Ya) girlfriend come along with him to the surface; she could destroy anything in one sweep just in a wave of anger. Again though, allotting its possibility, I still think it adds to many hidden, unseen events not supported directly by any evidence.

@Matuzz: You seem to be talking as if its a fact, but you show no proof nor evidence nor theory. So I assume you have a thread discussing all that for you that you are referencing. If so, would you care to link and maybe discuss?

@Tac: Well, I'm pretty sure he is irrefutably not in the Pyramid (on the Moon). It opens and you can see only Samantha's body.

Well my info is scattered in all of the places plus the Search isn't working that well anymore, it seems it doesn't find old threads.

But I can to get you the info by searching it to you from the web again.

And its my theory about it. Which includes that Ray Gun was made by Vril Ya aliens and given to Imperial army.

EDIT: Here is some of my very old threads about Vril Ya and the origin of them (Aldebaran):

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=13849

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=10968

[Guest MurderMachineX]

I'm unconvinced that Vril-Ya are aliens. The creator the Vril-Ya, Edward Bulwer-Lytton, clearly laid out a different creation for them, and I think that the original creator's word as some weight.

You do make some good points though:

- the chalk board diagrams

- Fly Trap

- Call of the Dead Easter Egg

As for the rest, though... Well, for example, the Ray Gun, we know to be created by Dr. Maxis. The CIA files directly told us this. I know they still come out there in that level, but the reason can't be that they are made by Vril-Ya.

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

I'm unconvinced that Vril-Ya are aliens. The creator the Vril-Ya, Edward Bulwer-Lytton, clearly laid out a different creation for them, and I think that the original creator's word as some weight.

You do make some good points though:

- the chalk board diagrams

- Fly Trap

- Call of the Dead Easter Egg

As for the rest, though... Well, for example, the Ray Gun, we know to be created by Dr. Maxis. The CIA files directly told us this. I know they still come out there in that level, but the reason can't be that they are made by Vril-Ya.

We don't know that. I remember one of the marines when getting it yells "oh cool alien gun!"

And Maxis SIEZED the Ray Gun designs from Shi No Numa, he didn't have the original idea. And by some of the hints, it looks like they may have had help.

[Guest Tac]

The author of the book did not create the race, they are alien, as in not of human creation. As for the Ray Gun, Maxis may have put his name on it but he did not create the blueprints. He took those from Shi No Numa.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Urrgh. You got me with the Ray Gun. I suppose you are right; it did come from Shi No Numa. I just always thought that the Japanese could be technological, even back in the day. So what, you guys all think they were created by Vril-Ya?

As for the Vril-Ya, I still don't think they are alien. The author of the book did create them, as it was just a science fiction book. He wrote the book, creating this fictional race. Now in the Zombies storyline, we are to take this race as being true. I'm just saying that the original creator of this storyline (in real life) has the most important word when it comes to conflicting origins, and he clearly stated in the novel that the Vril-Ya originated from humans dwelling underground in the distant past, evolving into a different subspecies.

[Guest Tac]

Personally, I don't believe that the Vril-Ya made the Ray Gun, I believe that that was the Japanese invention that the Nazi's carried out