Wni0

I see Treyarch stole my generator idea.

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=25524&p=246790&hilit=WniO#p246790

I have no idea why they didn't take my actual revamp ideas, making these maps is popular sure, but they are still flawed and broken, no matter how many gimmicks they throw in, my ideas would fix it, and make it better for the next gen CoD.

Your ideas for map features like the flooding and stuff sounds great imo but your ideas for engine and core gameplay changes just sound ridiculous, not trying to sound rude.

well, to be fair. im kinda in the wrong i cant really focus right now. sorry. if mods want to delete this page ok.

Its not like ive stated a billion times that the game would be harder with these ideas. AND round 30 would be next to impossible. LOW AMMO / FASTER ZOMBIES / SAME HEALTH != easier. seriously were talking like 2-3 clips with your gun. if your not careful you end up just getting run down and murdered before you can get into the next house for ammo or what not. Of course you can remove or replace ideas in zombies... what makes it any different than any other videogame? I get it. Its only something that bothers me and a few friends...

if i wanted ideas for the current mode i would suggest:

-Turn on the power by slowly dragging (holding x,) a generator to a specific spot, while your teammates escort you there.

-Rain in a map that discourages players from roaming outside, (like fog on tranzit,) maybe its "harder to aim."

-Build your own wall in certain areas with a "Toolkit."

-Randomly during rounds a powerup for zombies, (something unique,) is placed on the map and you try to kill the zombies before they get to the powerup.

-Rooms/hallways where its pitch black besides gunfire, until you turn power on or something of the sort.

-Lower areas of the map get flooded/burnt/ forcing players to seek higher ground

-Have doors you can open and close/ as long as there is another entrance point.

-Have a Winter map where venturing outside slowly freezes you to death.

etc etc.

i dont see why it always needs to be a new powerup or weapon. they should make the maps more interactive.

Ok. you kind of refuted my ammo point... but I would take it a step further, making it even harder. And besides the subjective answer on training zombies, (which btw Telixion and I invented,) do not negate anything.

In response to my points actually use facts/examples not generalizations.

Ok. Explain.

1. If the zombies had the same core health, you would want to balance it out right? So what would that core health be? The health of wave 15 zombies? That would mean that the first several rounds would be monstrously hard since you have only a pistol, essentially on round fifteen. Then after that, the rounds would be mind-numbingly easy. They gain health progressively for a reason, and this defeats that purpose.

You didnt read the whole thing. I said 3-6 rounds health. So the first rounds would not be "too hard." AND REMEMBER these arent exact numbers! For instance, lets say they were Round 6 health. Maybe improve the pistol to where its 3 or 4 bullets to kill a zombie, instead of 20. Its not like thats impossible to do, (but thats not the fucking point i am trying to make.)

They do not gain health round by round for a reason! Its something the developers implemented because they cant just have 300 zombies in a map, its too taxing on the engine...

2. If zombie's were faster than you there would literally be no way for anybody to run a train, eliminating it as a high round strategy. If you couldn't out run them toy would just have to camp, and that can be less reliable than training in most cases. It would make rounds 15+ WAAAY different than what we are used to, in a bad way. It dumps one of our most used strategies down the toilet.

Correct! It also ruins the game for us competitively. With being able to basically train at will in any map, this means that you can technically never die, once you obtain a decent skill at it... thus the whole "See what round you can get to," idea is void. Its not what round you can get to. Its called not getting bored and dying to something stupid. Tell me how much more skill or the difference in the rounds of 100? and 200? Well if you are using the ray gun, or the thunder gun, or the flamethrower absolutely nothing. The zombies spawn at the same speed, their health is the same, (since those guns stay relevant no matter what the round.) So once you get past 50 the rounds become the SAME. Is that not broken? Why not just end the game then? Seems sort of pointless to me... With these changes, you wouldnt have that problem, even if you removed having the game end. because the difference between rounds 16 and 30, would be pixies GIGANTIC.

4. One does not simply BEAT cod zombies. That is not the point. The point is to survive as long as you can. That would too dramatically alter the core of the game. The only other time this had been changed was NML, and there the same basic idea applied: survive indefinitely until you die. Think of it like this: which do you do more, play through a game's campaign, or play zombies? This isn't exactly the case in black ops 2 but you know what happens at the end of the campaign. What makes zombies more fun to play over and over again is the fact that you literally CAN'T win. You can only try to get as far as possible.

Good lord, if all of these ideas were implemented, teen suicide rates would skyrocket globally. They do in fact ruin the game in many ways.

There is something called a skill ceiling. With this gamemode, there is a LOW SKILL CEILING... Once you are able to "train" zombies, and know the map layouts its nearly impossible to tell who is the better player. If you use that same logic and apply that to StarCraft, (Knowing how to macro/micro,) You can Instantly tell who is an amateur and who is a pro. Just because this has an infinite rounds, IT DOESNT MAKE THE GAME HARDER.

OK GO.

Another thing. The whole idea of the zombies getting stronger every round is a direct response to the story of the whole game. The zombies pure purpose of coming back from the dead is so that people can kill them. Their souls fly up into the sky and feed their master power, who by the way, is in the Aether. So no...Making them the same core health would be calling Rictofen a weak Nazi who can't do anything...Which is not the point Treyarch is trying to make at all.

Right, its not like you cant make something ambiguous at the start and make up answers as you go.

obviously this guy cant take the challenge. Sad.......

i really really hope this is sarcasm.

Every zombie round 6 health? Pretty sure everyone would have round 99's if that were the case.

The reason why they wouldn't, is their would be limited ammo... AND the zombies are slightly faster then you. Sure you could take out 6 zombies with one Thompson clip, but you would have like 2 clips left, and as soon as you venture out you gotta make every bullet count until you get more ammo. The whole game would feel more rewarding... and there would be a lot more deaths. Placing random box / guns in hard to defend areas would also make it harder.

All of these ideas ruin everything that is Zombies.

Ok. Explain.

-They dont become invincible, more health forces you to be more accurate, go for headshots or ensure you have enough space to not get stuck while killing them

-Theres an incentive to not go down, otherwise it would be pretty easy to just resume where you were before like you didnt get downed

-The whole fun for many people is the challenge of seeing what round you can get to.

no. they literally become invincible. have you gotten past round 50 in any of the maps? 99% of the guns are worthless. PLUS the game doesnt get harder at that point... its just more of the same. so the game is fundamentally flawed. untoten was basically made by a few guys as a side project so i understand putting in zombies that gain more health, but with these changes you wouldn't need to ruin the game design just to make it harder.

"Theres an incentive to not go down," Yes, its called being able to PLAY. and 95% of players DO get stuck in purgatory so to speak in later rounds.

these changes would make the game harder...

FIRST, LET ME GET ONE THING CLEAR. I FUCKING LOVE ZOMBIES. I HAVE SINCE UNTOTEN. I HAVE A SIGNED COPY OF WORLD AT WAR CASE THANKS TO THE TREYARCH DEVS FROM A WeTheGamerz TOURNEY. (ZergIing, WAS MY OLD GAMERTAG.)

So before I start with the proposed ideas, here is the main problem I have with the current zombie mode.

-Zombies gain health after each round, and become "invincible," rendering most guns worthless after round 20 or so. Broke players that go down in later rounds are stuck in purgatory hell hoping for a nice random roll, or an instant kill. This alone causes rounds 30+ to be exactly the same. So getting to rounds 42, 65, 87 arent determined by skill, but by NOT GETTING BORED. Aesthetically its wrong in everyway.

So to keep things interesting throughout the game I suggest a few key changes to the gameplay. I'm just talking basic core gameplay differences, not exact numbers or intangibles.

1. THE ZOMBIES CORE HEALTH STAYS CONSTANT THE ENTIRE GAME

* Guns wouldn't become irrelevant as the rounds progress,

* The broke players that went down in later rounds would now have a shot at getting back to the groove of things, instead of hoping for a lucky random box roll or a powerup.

* Aesthetically it makes more sense in every way. (Shooting a zombie in the face with a shotgun 6 times and it still murders you at round 20 is... ugh.)

* Now, the exact numbers for how much health they have is something only speculative, but, I think their core health should be the current zombies ROUND 3-6 Health, somewhere in that range.

2. THE ZOMBIES ARE SLIGHTLY FASTER THAN YOU

* Leaving a safe house or venturing out would be more interesting and instill that sense of fear that is missing for expierenced players.

-Think of the bear level from condemned 2: bloodshot and even the fog ghouls in tranzit (when zombies are right behind the player.) Its such an overlooked mechanic in games... losing control.

* Im not sure on exact numbers, but here's what i think could work

- Players sprint is slightly faster then regular speed of zombies, but the sprint duration is dialed down from current version, so overtime the zombies will catch up. It might need to be slowed down in general as verruckt, while my favorite map, was awkward with them sprinting... so idk, maybe someone can think of a better idea.

3. LIMITED AMMO

* Place random box / guns on wall / ammunition pile in a dangerous place, to make players plan ahead and use teamwork to resupply, it would also dethrone the “camping in one spot method.”

* Limited ammo would discourage players from “stealing kills” from far away as ammo is sparce.

4. HAVE AN END GOAL

* This one is the most important... talking to Telixion, he would like this as well at least in some form.

* In the zombies now, knowing everyone will die at the end is somewhat depressing.

* Put in place an end goal of something like “get to round 30 to win.” --> It would make those last few rounds more intense and more rewarding. (think of current zombies when your about to beat your highest round and your like fuck yeah!.”)

* Win/loss ratio would be coveted

5. Small grumblings...

* Buying guns of the wall / reloading / random box all uses the same button... how many time have you accidentally traded away your ray gun for a springfield etc etc.

* Screen distortions and blurring - Its a cool gimmick, but do we really need lava in every area of Tranzit AND have exploding zombies? Like the water dripping in Verruckt, use it sparingly.

* Explosives, OK, so this one is maybe a pet peeve. In the current zombies explosive weapons, (grenades, rpgs,) are literally worthless past round 6. Instead of buying 4 shitty grenades, why not for the same price buy 1 awesome grenade that actually means something?

* Allow each player the ability to pause the game once, for a limited duration. Real life issues happen, (bathroom, phone call, etc etc.) Instead of waiting for the end of the round plus making a crawler just pause the game for 30 seconds or a minute, w.e the time. And if its some jerk teammate, implement a veto vote for the remaining players. Its really frustrating to know you are going to die in later rounds because you need to do something.

* Zombies need to stop double hitting players... we don't have the flamethrower anymore ^^

So in conclusion - Zombies are slightly faster then you, but their health stays the same regardless of the round. To balance out the game, there would be much less ammo in general as well as harder to reach/guard guns and randombox. Imagine only buying 2 or 3 clips of a gun at a time, instead of a full gun. So one of the main gameplay elements would be deciding when to go for ammo during the rounds, (as you would run out multiple times in later rounds.) Having open areas of the map would no longer be safe havens for kiting/training zombies as overtime the zombies would catch up with you. This would bring back fear, into you know, a horror game. I would love having the zombie mode be more focused, less reptitive.

Thanks for reading, (and I'm sorry for such a boring layout. Regardless of whether people think this is a good idea I will continue to play zombies as its still really damn fun.