Accumulating Storyline

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Well, yeah. That's why we find likelihood, finding the straightest points between the data. If I stuck to nothing but pure facts, this would be pretty bare.

Hey, Tac!

So, reasons why they went looking for him...

Perhaps when Der Riese had no one to control the Zombies, since both Maxis and Richtofen were gone, they desperately needed someone to go find Richtofen?

What do you mean by "they," like what group of people? I cannot tell if my American's employing them theory makes sense anymore because I had it as follows:

- The Americans do the Massacre at Der Riese and they 3 of them are at Der Riese. America wins and they tell those 3 to find Richtofen and give them some resources to use. Then they load 115 and head off, crashing at NDU.

However, since the NDU theory makes no more sense to a few of you and if Russia did actually win the Massacre, then my theory doesn't hold any more grounds.

"They" are the people at Der Riese. I don't think that works, since Verruckt happened so long before that, it kinda throws the order off.

The massacre, however, hasn't occurred yet. We haven't gotten to it. But it could be that when the test subjects were sent to Richtofen, by the time they came back they found Der Riese overrun.

@ZOTD: It's better than any other solution we've found.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

"They" are the people at Der Riese. I don't think that works, since Verruckt happened so long before that, it kinda throws the order off.

The massacre, however, hasn't occurred yet. We haven't gotten to it. But it could be that when the test subjects were sent to Richtofen, by the time they came back they found Der Riese overrun.

@ZOTD: It's better than any other solution we've found.

No... no its not. I gave several up there that would work just as well.

And actually, considering it, it's a big possibility that, if the massacre happened early enough, Dempsey and co could have been freed and sent to America or wherever, then debriefed or whatever.

[Guest Tac]

"They" are the people at Der Riese. I don't think that works, since Verruckt happened so long before that, it kinda throws the order off.

The massacre, however, hasn't occurred yet. We haven't gotten to it. But it could be that when the test subjects were sent to Richtofen, by the time they came back they found Der Riese overrun.

@ZOTD: It's better than any other solution we've found.

I see what you mean, about NDU happening to long after Verruckt, I won't argue that one. As for the Massacre, I believe that the Massacre does happen before Shi No Numa, it is in October and lasts a week, we know that much I believe.

@ZOTD: That is a bit of what I was thinking, maybe not went to America physically, but you get what I was trying to say.

EDIT: MonopolyMac made a good point with me, how do we actually know the Russians won the Massacre? What was our reasoning behind that again?

[Guest BlindBusDrivr]

"They" are the people at Der Riese. I don't think that works, since Verruckt happened so long before that, it kinda throws the order off.

The massacre, however, hasn't occurred yet. We haven't gotten to it. But it could be that when the test subjects were sent to Richtofen, by the time they came back they found Der Riese overrun.

@ZOTD: It's better than any other solution we've found.

I see what you mean, about NDU happening to long after Verruckt, I won't argue that one. As for the Massacre, I believe that the Massacre does happen before Shi No Numa, it is in October and lasts a week, we know that much I believe.

@ZOTD: That is a bit of what I was thinking, maybe not went to America physically, but you get what I was trying to say.

EDIT: MonopolyMac made a good point with me, how do we actually know the Russians won the Massacre? What was our reasoning behind that again?

well if we did win

why do we need a CIA asset at Rebirth, to get us info about der riese from the russians files?

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

well if we did win

why do we need a CIA asset at Rebirth, to get us info about der riese from the russians files?

Oh ho, very crever.

@ZOTD: That is a bit of what I was thinking, maybe not went to America physically, but you get what I was trying to say.

Yeah, I think this really makes a ton more sense then their enemies sending them to Richtofen.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

"They" are the people at Der Riese. I don't think that works, since Verruckt happened so long before that, it kinda throws the order off.

The massacre, however, hasn't occurred yet. We haven't gotten to it. But it could be that when the test subjects were sent to Richtofen, by the time they came back they found Der Riese overrun.

@ZOTD: It's better than any other solution we've found.

I see what you mean, about NDU happening to long after Verruckt, I won't argue that one. As for the Massacre, I believe that the Massacre does happen before Shi No Numa, it is in October and lasts a week, we know that much I believe.

@ZOTD: That is a bit of what I was thinking, maybe not went to America physically, but you get what I was trying to say.

EDIT: MonopolyMac made a good point with me, how do we actually know the Russians won the Massacre? What was our reasoning behind that again?

Shi No Numa just looks much more rickety and unstable than Der Riese. I wouldn't imagine it'd last longer. Especially because Der Riese was the headquarters. I'd thought that they lasted the longest, having the most security.

@ZotD: No... every alternative you've made includes the subjects going to Shi No Numa...

We decided the Russians won because all of the Der Riese data in the CIA files is taken from a Russian asset.

What follows is the chronological primary sample from the Der Riese project "Datenbediensteter" (translated: DATA SERVANT). Sample was acquired from CIA asset based out of Vozrozhdeniya in the Soviet Union and is translated from its original German below:

[Guest Tac]

Shi No Numa just looks much more rickety and unstable than Der Riese. I wouldn't imagine it'd last longer. Especially because Der Riese was the headquarters. I'd thought that they lasted the longest, having the most security.

Well we know that Der Riese is after October 1 and the Massacre is in October. We know Shi No Numa is AFTER October 1, so I just think it makes sense that there would be the Massacre in Der Riese, forcing Richtofen to Shi No Numa.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

Shi No Numa just looks much more rickety and unstable than Der Riese. I wouldn't imagine it'd last longer. Especially because Der Riese was the headquarters. I'd thought that they lasted the longest, having the most security.

@ZotD: No... every alternative you've made includes the subjects going to Shi No Numa...

Here's some options, then:

Their governments find them before or after the masacre.

They somehow escape by themselves

Richtofen sends for them, or a 935 agent sends them to find Richtofen (Makes the least sense, if you think about it).

@ Richtofen going to Shi no numa, I thought maybe he was looking for something else, not that he was forced into a place.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Well we know that Der Riese is after October 1 and the Massacre is in October. We know Shi No Numa is AFTER October 1, so I just think it makes sense that there would be the Massacre in Der Riese, forcing Richtofen to Shi No Numa.

And what about the test subjects?

[Guest Tac]

Well we know that Der Riese is after October 1 and the Massacre is in October. We know Shi No Numa is AFTER October 1, so I just think it makes sense that there would be the Massacre in Der Riese, forcing Richtofen to Shi No Numa.

And what about the test subjects?

Well it forced them to go too, wherever it was they went, I think SNN. I am debating the idea that GK maybe hired them to get Ed.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Richtofen was at Shi No Numa to kill Peter. Richtofen was at Shi No Numa with his subjects to kill Zombies. These two things did not happen at the same time, and the second one had to happen after the first one.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

Well it forced them to go too, wherever it was they went, I think SNN. I am debating the idea that GK maybe hired them to get Ed.

I would doubt that, with this new idea with the massacre. It really seems to me now that the Russians and Americans found them, and then fought over the other stuff there, causing them to fight, and leading to the outbreak at Der Riese.

[Guest Tac]

Well it forced them to go too, wherever it was they went, I think SNN. I am debating the idea that GK maybe hired them to get Ed.

I would doubt that, with this new idea with the massacre. It really seems to me now that the Russians and Americans found them, and then fought over the other stuff there, causing them to fight, and leading to the outbreak at Der Riese.

Well we know that GK got information from Der Riese, and assuming they won the Massacre, it wouldn't surprise me. The head of GK was AT the Massacre.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

The Russians and Americans didn't fight. They had a "standoff", as the Intel said. The zombie outbreak was literally a "massacre". Besides, when you're there in-game, there are Zombies there, not Russians.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

Well it forced them to go too, wherever it was they went, I think SNN. I am debating the idea that GK maybe hired them to get Ed.

I would doubt that, with this new idea with the massacre. It really seems to me now that the Russians and Americans found them, and then fought over the other stuff there, causing them to fight, and leading to the outbreak at Der Riese.

Well we know that GK got information from Der Riese, and assuming they won the Massacre, it wouldn't surprise me. The head of GK was AT the Massacre.

Okay, really, what significance is GK, other than that document, to zombies? There are a few notes, but really, there isn't much relating them to the story. Plus, there is also the rest of the Russians, and later the Americans, so I'm not sure they would allow that. Really, what would GK have against Richtofen? Do they really even know who he is?

@ Murdermachine, duh the Russians aren't there. The standoff/massacre/whatever happened before this if we are correct.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

How could the Russians have "won" if there are still Zombies around after they "won"?

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

How could the Russians have "won" if there are still Zombies around after they "won"?

Because they grabbed some technology (some), killed a bunch of scientists, and left the Americans with little.

That, or there were a few scientists left alive, and then after the event the zombies came.

[Guest Tac]

Okay, really, what significance is GK, other than that document, to zombies? There are a few notes, but really, there isn't much relating them to the story. Plus, there is also the rest of the Russians, and later the Americans, so I'm not sure they would allow that. Really, what would GK have against Richtofen? Do they really even know who he is?

I am not going to explain the significance of GK to you, there are many threads around the site that you can reference and be taught on the subject. If you will not do that much at least, then you obviously don't think they are involved, which is fine... Except that they are. And it is easily possible that they were searching for him to get his research, or to have him join their side, they didn't have to have something against him.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

I am not going to explain the significance of GK to you, there are many threads around the site that you can reference and be taught on the subject. If you will not do that much at least, then you obviously don't think they are involved, which is fine... Except that they are. And it is easily possible that they were searching for him to get his research, or to have him join their side, they didn't have to have something against him.

I know of GK, but I do not recollect anything to do directly with 935 or Richtofen in particular. In fact, who's to say that no one really knew of Richtofen? But, I digress. My knowledge of GK is limited, it wasn't the most interesting thing to me.

Either way, it still doesn't make sense to me that either Dempsey or Takeo would go along with this. I think they would have had to have been with their culture for a bit to remember some things about themselves, is another bit, so that's why I support their governments finding them a bit more.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

I really don't know what to believe on this point.

[Guest Tac]

Which one?

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Why the test subjects would look for Richtofen.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

Why the test subjects would look for Richtofen.

Exactly. There's just no sense in him sending for the subjects, because they wouldn't trust him.

Also, there's the problem that they already remember their cultures by the time they get there, so that doesn't make much sense.

If they were brought back to their governments, it wouldn't really make sense that they know where Richtofen is (but honestly, I really think the government idea is the most logical, but they were sent for a different reason). Same basic thing with GK. How would they know where he is?

I think peter might have gone to Shi no numa for a purpose other than Richtofen, but came across him by complete accident, leading to his death. Since the government had not heard back from him, they sent out the Crew to get him, and crap happens.

[Guest MurderMachineX]

Well the fact they remember their cultures doesn't necessarily signify anything.

***TOP SECRET***

***LEVEL 1 CLEARANCE ONLY***

***DER RIESE "SERVANT" SAMPLE B67129***

What follows is the chronological primary sample from the Der Riese project “Datenbediensteter” (translated: DATA SERVANT). Sample was acquired from CIA asset based out of Vozrozhdeniya in the Soviet Union and is translated from its original German Below:

***SERVANT ENTRY B67129***

'Experiments ongoing.

'Observed a new effect

'As a result of experiments.

'Dr. Edward Richtofen as witness

'Outlines as follows:

'Tank Dempsy

'Nikolai Belinski

'Takeo Masaki

'Subjects display unique

'Side effects

'Compared to previous

'Subjects.

'Baseline psyche remains

'Intact,

'But all specific memories

'Have been lost.

'Dr. Richtofen will continue

'Observations.

***END FILE***

It says all specific memories. So it is entirely possible that they remember basic things, such as ancestry, personal identification, talking, walking, and shooting a gun.

But it isn't about Richtofen trusting them. It's about whoever trusting them to send them to Richtofen.

But... I don't think they went to their governments. That just adds a whole new unexplained chapter. The U.S. government might not let Tank go, but rather keep him to get all the info they can out of him. The Russian government might kill Nikolai on sight, given his political history. The Japanese, I'm not sure. It just seems like a bunch of hoops to jump through.

I just assumed that the only reason he'd want to go to Shi No Numa would be to see Richtofen, as Cornelius says to try to talk to either him or Maxis.

[Guest Zombieofthedead]

It says all specific memories. So it is entirely possible that they remember basic things, such as ancestry, personal identification, talking, walking, and shooting a gun.

Actually, they don't remember personal identification, as retofen mentions that Dempsey doesn't remember who he was, like the rest of the subjects. I think ancestry counts as the same group as specific memories. Walking and talking and such...most likely the did know how to do those.

But it isn't about Richtofen trusting them. It's about whoever trusting them to send them to Richtofen.

But... I don't think they went to their governments. That just adds a whole new unexplained chapter. The U.S. government might not let Tank go, but rather keep him to get all the info they can out of him. The Russian government might kill Nikolai on sight, given his political history. The Japanese, I'm not sure. It just seems like a bunch of hoops to jump through.

Dempsey doesn't remember anything, and he's a loyal marine, there would be no point. Nikolai was already sent on the front lines for his history, would not be killed.

I just assumed that the only reason he'd want to go to Shi No Numa would be to see Richtofen, as Cornelius says to try to talk to either him or Maxis. Maybe he went around looking at left over 935 bases? That's all I could think of.

But really, is there a better theory than their governments sending them? Anything else sounds kind of iffy without evidence.