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anonymous

Tag and the Giant happen simultaneous & Maxis is alive

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First of all, the credits for this idea go to @caljitsu for finding these quotes and connecting them to this theory.

 

During the Tag der Toten Quest, the very last easter egg our characters will ever complete, there is a campfire quote of Richthofen saying that Samantha promised him something long ago, and that her dad had a plan. This of course refers to the Origins cutscene, where Samantha promises Eddy that next time, he can make the rules of the toy game, and that she says, upon going to the basement, that her father has a plan. What this means for the grander scheme of things in our story, I am unsure of, but instantly after Campfire Richthofen mentions these memories, Nikolai says: "Look, the lighthouse beam!".

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor tag der toten lighthouse

Now meanwhile, in the Giant, when the characters activate the antigravity mechanism of Die Glocke, an audio of Doctor Maxis will play, saying: "I see it! The Beacon is lit! I know where you are. Sooner or later, I will find you and will secure a better tomorrow for the children." Now we always assumed that this 'beacon' would refer to the Flytrap itself, but what if it actually is about the Lighthouse at Tunguska? Maxis even forecasts the ending of Tag with his "I will find you and secure a better tomorrow for the children". Would it be possible if Maxis is helping us in Tag?

 

Prior to the Giant, Richthofen is already aware of the potential danger Monty might cause, thus his utterly complicated interdimensional voyage, as well as his writing in the Kronorium "I know what I must do E.R.". I think there are two different ways the Giant could go: One, he does not do the Flytrap Easter Egg and they continue the Cycle, ending with Revelations. Or two: Richthofen is already rebelling against Monty in the Giant, doing the Flytrap Easter Egg enabling Maxis to help in Tag, continues the Cycle untill Zetsubou/Blood, and then goes the BO4 path.

 

Two issues: How could activating the Flytrap in the Giant lead to events in Tag, and how the hell would Maxis still be alive?

 

Maxis still belonging to the realm of the living

 

There could be two possibilities how Maxis would still be alive:

  • Possibility #1: It is House Maxis. Time in Agartha and the House is, as @The Meh previously mentioned, a complicated thing. Whilst the realm is believed to lack the dimension of time, there still is some kind of linear timeline WITHIN Agartha. I think you can compare this the best with the ending of the movie Insterstellar, in which the main character finds himself in a 4D hypercube where he can see and influence his daughter's chamber in all times. See this kinda like a 3D cube with on each of its flat, 2D sides, you can see another time. However, in the World Within the cube, time also passes. At one moment you are floating here, at one moment there. At one moment Maxis is alone, at one moment he is accompanied by the children. At one moment Maxis is alive, at one moment he is dead. Thing I wanna make clear is, is that even while the House is independant of outer time, it has a certain timeline itself as well. While the Maxis is the House was already brutally murdered before Tag, he was still alive in the past, co-existing with the timelines of the Giant and Tag.
  • Possibility #2: It is Zero Base Maxis (theory by @KronoriumExcerptB and @RadZakpak). There is a third Maxis existing, explained in this thread. Gorod Krovi's SOPHIA mentions him saying he had a plan (!!!), that he learned how to open up new world and that he is gone now. The Maxis helping us in Tag is this Zero Base Maxis because, and now I quote KronoriumExcerptB:


    "#1: He clearly knows a whole lot because he had the Kronorium in his base.

    #2: He clearly fights against Monty as he knows Monty likes to take the soul of his pawns, so his facility is gated only to those with souls. 

    #3: Why would they just throw in some random Maxis who knew all this stuff if he wouldn't be somehow relevant?

    #4: If you listen to the voice lines of Maxis in the Beacon EE he sounds different. He takes a deep breath after every sentence for whatever reason."

 

 

The Flytrap influences the Beacon

 

In an earlier thread I mentioned how the Flytrap, based on the ancient Keeper technology present at Shangri La, might be the reason why the Der Riese location is stuck in a timeloop. Recently, I saw a movie in which scientists believed that when the Moon stands in a particular special position (e.g. an Eclipse), something concerning Solar particles, electromagnetism and gravity happens, causing making time travel at that particular moment possible. However, Der Riese is already in in the state of time-loop before the characters shoot the flytrap, meaning that DIe Glocke was already on. The machine was already activated, shooting the Flytrap with a Pack-a-Punched weapon resulted in something else. Now various conspiracists rumoured that Die Glocke had the ability to wrap space-time and even make a tear it. We already assumed that the Lighthouse at Tunguska is, just like the one in Alcatraz, actually a Leyline. So when we shot the Henge, and the plasmasized toys ascended away, could they have directed to the Leyline at Tunguska?

 

Pablo Marinus mentioned that there was no escape from the Siberian Outpost, almost like it is some kind of bubble on its own (we have even theorized that it is on either one of Mars's Moons. In this way, the site sounds very similar to Der Riese, which seems to be shielded of the rest of the world as well, now following its own local-looping timeline. The two locations could be connected in some way. Any thoughts concerning this subject?

 

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One more interesting thing here: 

Nh82sWu.png

This comic loading screen shows that The Giant rewrites history and destroys all the 115. Which is pretty much exactly what happens in the Tag ending.

 

 

Also I see the cycle part of this a bit differently. I don't think the flytrap ever happens in the cycle. IMO that only happens when Richtofen-2 from the BotD intro reads the new version of the Kronorium. We never learn what happens to him after that. He's supposed to go to SoE but with his new knowledge that makes zero sense. So it'd make a lot of sense to me if he went to The Giant right then and then they did the flytrap, ultimately doing their part to save the universe.

 

 

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 9:09 AM, KronoriumExcerptB said:

 

 

Also I see the cycle part of this a bit differently. I don't think the flytrap ever happens in the cycle. IMO that only happens when Richtofen-2 from the BotD intro reads the new version of the Kronorium. We never learn what happens to him after that. He's supposed to go to SoE but with his new knowledge that makes zero sense. So it'd make a lot of sense to me if he went to The Giant right then and then they did the flytrap, ultimately doing their part to save the universe.

 

 

 

My only issue with this idea is that the quest is referred to as a Paradoxical Prologue, implying to me it is a part of the Paradox. Also there is the fact that that quest is needed to get the first "Gateworm" to be able to complete the super easter egg in Revelations, which just rewards you with an achievement, a calling card, and the RK5. I realize you don't actually collect a gateworm, and this is all for gameplay purposes, but the implication is that all the easter eggs before Revelations, including the fly trap, must be completed before you Revelations can act as the "true" "ending".

 

In that sense, if The Giant's fly trap did not happen in the cycle, then that is a retcon, and I don't know how I would feel about it.

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7 minutes ago, RadZakpak said:

My only issue with this idea is that the quest is referred to as a Paradoxical Prologue, implying to me it is a part of the Paradox. Also there is the fact that that quest is needed to get the first "Gateworm" to be able to complete the super easter egg in Revelations, which just rewards you with an achievement, a calling card, and the RK5. I realize you don't actually collect a gateworm, and this is all for gameplay purposes, but the implication is that all the easter eggs before Revelations, including the fly trap, must be completed before you Revelations can act as the "true" "ending".

 

In that sense, if The Giant's fly trap did not happen in the cycle, then that is a retcon, and I don't know how I would feel about it.

I think that "Paradoxical Prologue" is almost a reference to all of this- I mean if there's nothing weird going on with it, and they just proceed to DE normally, then why is it paradoxical? And no matter where it actually takes place, it's still a prologue because it came out before the rest of the BO3 story.

 

And this is a side note but Jason once mentioned that they fiddled with chronology in BO3, but nobody ever noticed. There really isn't any other place where that could be true except The Giant.

 

 

Also I don't consider the gateworm stuff even remotely canon. I don't even think there's a character quote for it? It doesn't really make story sense unlike the BO2 super EE. I think it's entirely a gameplay thing.

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