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NaBrZHunter

Debunked: Souls As a Source of Power

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Straight outta Der Bunker scriptworks, my friends. For those of you who watch my videos, my apologies for the delay. Clearly not uncommon for life to get in the way of my channel, sadly. All the same, this is my home and I figger I ought to share what I've been working on, as I feel it's worth discussing. So without further ado...straight from the studio:

 

Way back in 2011, with the discovery of the radios on the Black Ops 1 map, moon, it was revealed that Dr. Edward Richtofen’s renegade Group 935 scientists, after several years of work, had finally unlocked the secrets of the Moon Pyramid Device, better known as the MPD. The process of powering it, however, was as controversial as it was groundbreaking. 


Dr. Groph, the lead scientist at Griffin Station, along with his assistant scientist, Dr. Schuster, killed a lab rat in the vicinity of the MPD, and for the first time since its discovery, the ancient machine responded. 

 

Moon Audio Reel:

Dr. Groph: Log 1075. Dr. Schuster and I have spent countless hours with the pyramid device in an attempt to understand how it functions. We have made little progress... until now. Today we uncovered what appears to be some kind of tank with a glass-like front. The glass itself seems-
Dr. Schuster: I've got you now rat!
Dr. Groph: Kill it Schuster!
*Squishing sound followed by a whooshing sound*
Dr. Schuster: Did you see that?
Dr. Groph: Look! The capacitor is illuminated, the tank is filling-
Dr. Schuster: The machine. It seems to be activated! What did you do?
Dr. Groph: I think we just discovered what powers this machine.

 

When the news reached Dr. Richtofen, he sent a large shipment of prisoners to the moon base with orders for Groph and Schuster to kill as many as necessary to open the device, preparing it for an inhabitant. 
Though appalled by the orders, Groph followed through, and the MPD was finally prepared for Richtofen’s grand scheme.

 

Moon Audio Reel:

Dr. Edward Richtofen: Griffin station. This is Eagle’s Nest. Status update. Over.
Dr. Groph: Hello Doctor. We have the shipment, and are carrying out your orders.
*Gunshot, grunting, and a whooshing sound are heard*
Dr. Groph: It is grim work Doctor.
Dr. Edward Richtofen: All in the name of science Dr. Groph. Continue until the tanks are full.
Dr. Groph: Yes... Doctor.
*Gunshot, grunting and a whooshing sound are heard*
Dr. Groph: May God have mercy on us all.

 

During this process, as replicated in the Moon Easter Egg, as the zombies are killed in proximity to the MPD, the glass tanks gradually fill with a bluish hue.
This theory seems to have somehow entirely neglected the plethora of quotes that have debunked it over the years. It suggests that the bursts of light or "swoosh" sounds are souls being released from their zombified bodies, only to be trapped and used to power the MPD.


So I believe the first question we should address is, do zombies even have souls?

 

The answer is absolutely, “yes.” One of the first ever Easter Egg songs by Kevin Sherwood, “The One,” featured in Shi No Numa introduced the concept of a sort of  (what you might call) buried sentience and cognizance, sung from the perspective of a zombie’s soul, trapped inside its body which acts violently against the soul’s will, driven by primal instinct and lust for blood, while the soul inside begs to have its body killed so it can escape. Later, the theme made a resurgence in Tranzit with the Easter Egg song “Carrion,” emphasizing the zombie’s enslavement to the neurological synapses forced upon its brain by the occupant of the MPD. 

 

NOTE: There has recently been posted on this site a contrasting analysis of "Carrion" by @FatedTitan. Recommend reading:

So, yes, canonically, zombies have souls. Let’s move on to debunking the theory itself: are souls ever used to power anything in the zombies universe?


Interestingly enough, it has never been said that souls can power anything. Direct quotes from Dr. Maxis and Dr. Richtofen (who we can safely assume to be the primary authorities on such subjects) explain that it is...more scientific than that. There is an explanation other than simple “supernatural” dark rituals. Richtofen's own quotes, taken from Origins, seem to quickly debunk it:

 

“I believe only in science.”

“Their energy is being refocused!”

"It is the transformative power of 115! It draws energy from matter, living or dead!”

-Dr. Richtofen, Origins

 

So..energy. The MPD, the “Soul Boxes” from Origins and more are powered by matter converted into energy. In fact, there is even a quote from Dr. Maxis in Buried that confirms that the soul has already departed by the time the energy manifested as a ball of light even appears. 

 

“Departed souls leave residual energy in their wake, this energy must be used to fuel the lantern.” -Dr. Maxis, Buried

 

Other quotes from Maxis reinforce this further:

 

“The Lantern is a vessel for energy: the energy contained within all matter.” -Dr. Maxis, Buried

Notice how Maxis emphasizes that the energy needed is contained within all matter, not only in  beings occupied by the sentience we know as a “soul” or “spirit.” 
By this we can see that some technology in the zombies universe converts matter into energy, reflecting Albert Einstein’s famous concept expressed in the equation E=mc^2, which states that any object with mass has an incredible amount of potential and kinetic energy. The point being, while the technology in the zombies storyline can get scientifically farfetched, to say the least, there are still references to actual scientific principles in the story. In fact, both Dr. Maxis and Dr. Richtofen refer on several occasions to the first law of thermodynamics. 


“Energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred.” -Richtofen, Origins / Maxis, Buried

 

So all along, the flashes of light we’ve been seeing is the conversion of matter into energy, and the transfer of that energy into devices that can put it to use. 

Even the Origins staves are no exception

 

 “Nothing can withstand the flood of energy that flows from this staff! The ancients knowledge, harnessed by the power of research. The day approaches when science will master all elemental forces.” -Dr. Richtofen, Origins

 

What about maps like Shadows of Evil, however? “Fractional shadows of reality” as the Shadow Man so eloquently described it. 
During my research, I was actually surprised to find that EVEN IN SHADOWS OF EVIL, when Jessica is charging the Apothicon egg the energy concept remains consistent, while the word “souls” has never once been used.

 

“The egg seems to be drawing energy from the dead. This is heavier than before. Must be all that energy it sucked up.” -Jessica, Shadows of Evil

 

So, souls are not used to power anything, but they do exist in the zombies universe. So what role do they play?
The disembodiment of souls goes back all the way to Moon as well, but is very different in nature from the proximity killing of zombies. The MPD and related Vril devices such as the Golden Rod, the Black Moon Egg and the Apothicon Rift Stone, AKA the Summoning Key have served to transfer and retain disembodied human souls. As seen in Moon when Richtofen enters the MPD by swapping souls with Samantha, as well as in Der Eisendrache and Zetsubou No Shima when Richtofen salvages the souls of Dempsey and Takeo, this technology allows sentient beings to exit their bodies and occupy machines.
And yet even this is more reminiscent of science fiction than mysticism, resembling the ancient extraterrestrial technology described in 2001: A Space Odyssey.


“They [the extraterrestrials]...were not yet immortal. Soon, as their machines were better than their bodies, it was time to move. First, their brains, and then their thoughts alone, they transferred into shining new homes of metal and plastic. In these, they roamed among the stars. They no longer built spaceships. They were spaceships.”  -Arthur C. Clark, 2001: A Space Odyssey

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Donor

Good read! To also add to your point of zombies having souls, Samuel Stuhlinger can hear them speak in Die Rise. So they must retain some sense of original self.

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On 6/2/2016 at 3:42 AM, Rissole25 said:

Good read! To also add to your point of zombies having souls, Samuel Stuhlinger can hear them speak in Die Rise. So they must retain some sense of original self.

Ah! Excellent post. The N4 certainly weren't the best of characters, but I always liked that about Samuel.

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@NaBrZHunter, have I ever told you that I love you. Excellent post! This is the kind of content I hope to see in the Asylum. You and @FatedTitan should do a collaboration. 

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3 hours ago, Boom said:

@NaBrZHunter, have I ever told you that I love you. Excellent post! This is the kind of content I hope to see in the Asylum. You and @FatedTitan should do a collaboration. 

D'awww. He he he. I would love to collab with @FatedTitan. Definitely one of my all-time favorite theorists, and a great pal. Master of EE song analysis, which is one of my favorite things in zombies, no question. "The One" is the reason I am a story fanatic.

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Does crazy Richtofen ever mention energy?  Realize a scientist isn't going to even consider the idea of souls compared to energy and matter.  We see this present-day as well.  If a scientist mentions souls he's exiled from the left-scientific community (which is a large portion).  Energy is more proper for them.  Crazy Richtofen from WaW and BO would give us better thoughts, since he has been in direct contact with the MPD, but I don't believe he even takes time to mention it.  I don't want to argue whether it's souls or energy, but I have a concern disregarding souls as well.  Zombies weren't the only ones slain on Moon.  It's widely believed, though I don't think specifically confirmed anywhere, that the original inhabitants of Shangri-la were sacrficed to the MPD as well.  Are they just energy too?  What about the rat?

 

And I wouldn't use the lantern as a comparison between the two.  If I recall correctly, the wisps found throughout Buried and in the lantern are never compared to the energy or souls we absorb into the MPD or the eggs.  

 

Also, Samuel hears voices in his head, but they aren't necessarily zombies.  For all we know, they could be Keepers.  And let's not even go into people arguing that it's Richtofen (I still firmly disagree that the unintelligible voices are him, though the last one is).  

 

 

I won't argue that energy is definitely there and I don't think anyone wise would.  But I don't think we can just disregard souls playing a part in this as well, much larger than just the transfer of one to another body in Moon.

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1 hour ago, FatedTitan said:

Does crazy Richtofen ever mention energy?  Realize a scientist isn't going to even consider the idea of souls compared to energy and matter.  We see this present-day as well.  If a scientist mentions souls he's exiled from the left-scientific community (which is a large portion).  Energy is more proper for them.  Crazy Richtofen from WaW and BO would give us better thoughts, since he has been in direct contact with the MPD, but I don't believe he even takes time to mention it.  I don't want to argue whether it's souls or energy, but I have a concern disregarding souls as well.  Zombies weren't the only ones slain on Moon.  It's widely believed, though I don't think specifically confirmed anywhere, that the original inhabitants of Shangri-la were sacrficed to the MPD as well.  Are they just energy too?  What about the rat?

 

And I wouldn't use the lantern as a comparison between the two.  If I recall correctly, the wisps found throughout Buried and in the lantern are never compared to the energy or souls we absorb into the MPD or the eggs.  

 

Also, Samuel hears voices in his head, but they aren't necessarily zombies.  For all we know, they could be Keepers.  And let's not even go into people arguing that it's Richtofen (I still firmly disagree that the unintelligible voices are him, though the last one is).  

 

 

I won't argue that energy is definitely there and I don't think anyone wise would.  But I don't think we can just disregard souls playing a part in this as well, much larger than just the transfer of one to another body in Moon.

 

Good points! But yes, crazy Richtofen makes several mentions of energy. Since I'm on the forum and can go even deeper than I do on YT, I'm also gonna introduce an argument regarding Groph pertaining to the rat.

 

And don't get me wrong! The fact that zombies actually still have their souls trapped within them even in their undead state is one of the most fascinating elements to the story, IMO. I am not trying to disprove souls' existence within the zombies universe, only that they cannot be used as a source of energy.

 

In Moon, when the rat is killed, Groph says, "I think we've just descovered what powers this machine." Some people argue "well, he might believe that animals have souls" or simply "animals have souls, too." But if we consider the conditions and probability surrounding it, along with Groph's flow of logic, the idea that he has "realized that souls power the machine" is actually more of a stretch than the alternative.

 

We must consider that Groph is, first of all, European. German, to be exact. Whatever belief system he had it was, considering 1940s' Europe and his age (well past 40, meaning he was born in the 19th century) most likely either Lutheran or simply athiest/agnostic. During the murder of the prisoners during the initial power-up of the MPD, he says with great conviction "God have mercy on us all," which leads me to believe that although he is generally "non-practicing," he was likely raised Lutheran and upon being so inwardly shaken, it comes out for a moment.

 

So why is his religion important? Well, in general, the belief that animals have souls is an Eastern mindset, and is expressly not a Christian mindset, and certainly not the mindset of an atheist who does not believe in an afterlife or Christian-raised agnostic. So to say that Groph "realized" that "the rat's "soul" just entered the MPD" is highly unlikely considering his background.

Further supporting this is the fact that Groph's mindset logically proceeds to: we must kill people beside the MPD reinforces the idea that whatever was powering the MPD was/is a shared property of living beings, namely, energy. And a living human body possesses far more kinetic and potential energy than a rat does. So instead of requiring a massive shipment of lab rats (certainly not in short supply in 1940s' Germany), Groph decided to focus on a more efficient target which was to be had in large quantities, thanks to the war. We're talking about a delicate solution here, and Groph has made an executive decision to change solutes.

 

Now, Richtofen says in Moon "the Machine is powered by life force! How could I have forgotten?" Which, of course, could be stretched to fit "soul," but again, based on the plethora of quotes since then, as well as considering the previous analysis of Groph, energy is a far more likely conclusion.

 

Moving on, to the contrary, the lantern does work much the same way. Maxis describes it as "a vessel for energy; the energy contained within ALL matter."

Note crazy Richtofen then says, "departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern." From there, the process is very reminiscent of Moon. Zombies a killed, and the lantern "dings" with each kill. 

 

Quote

It's widely believed, though I don't think specifically confirmed anywhere, that the original inhabitants of Shangri-la were sacrficed to the MPD as well.  Are they just energy too? 

 

Now, that is not a canon assumption, I don't believe, but even if it were, the original inhabitants of Shangri-La would be human, and of course, composed of matter even if they weren't. Now, they would not be just energy, however, it would be their matter being converted into energy, per E=mc2, and based on quotes from Maxis and Richtofen both in their original and Origins forms, take, for instance, Maxis in Die Rise:

"Vital energy flows through all things."
Richtofen and Maxis in Buried:

"Departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern."

Richtofen in Origins and Maxis in Buried:

“Energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred.”

 

And then, it's interesting to note that even the Buddhist, religious Takeo who has nothing to lose in the eyes of the scientific community, acknowledges that the boxes in Origins are fueled by energy:


“Every demon that falls provides more energy!” 

 

The fact is, Treyarch seems to be incessantly driving home the point that energy is the solution in these cases. 

 

Quote

And I wouldn't use the lantern as a comparison between the two.  If I recall correctly, the wisps found throughout Buried and in the lantern are never compared to the energy or souls we absorb into the MPD or the eggs.  

"Maxis calls it a wisp. All it really is is a big ball of life force." -Richtofen, Buried

"The machine is powered by life force!" -Richtofen, Moon

 

Quote

Also, Samuel hears voices in his head, but they aren't necessarily zombies.  For all we know, they could be Keepers.  And let's not even go into people arguing that it's Richtofen (I still firmly disagree that the unintelligible voices are him, though the last one is).  

I wouldn't believe that the Die Rise voices are him, since he can hear both those voices and Richtofen's voice clearly. I can't say that the voices he's hearing are absolutely the zombies, though I feel the conditions indicate that would be so. "Telepathic" sorts of communication can be achieved when people are highly exposed to 115 (Richtofen, the test subjects and Samantha, Maxis and Samantha in Origins, Samuel and Richtofen in Buried, and so it would seem, Samuel and the zombie souls crying out to be killed and released, as in The One).

 

I'm not sure what else we may see in regards to souls, but souls as a source of power just doesn't have concrete foundation.

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1 hour ago, FatedTitan said:

Good stuff @NaBrZHunter.  I have nothing to dispute, except I don't think the voices are zombies.  Perhaps the Keepers, but not Zombies. :)

I would actually be totally cool with that, TBH. I'd really like to find out more about what's up with "THE VOICES! THEY SCREAM!!!" -Richtofen 

'cause we're under the assumption that the voices Richtofen hears actually kinda tell him what he needs to do to enact his Grand Scheme or something, right? So yeah, to say that what Samuel is hearing is the zombies is actually...kinda a stretch and contradictory. Only the controller of the MPD should be audible via the communication "wavelength" or whatever it is of 115/MPD technology. 

So actually, sorry for thinking out loud, but I think I can agree with you on that. 

 

I'll be honest, though, when I saw you had commented and the detail of your reply, I started sweatin bullets hoping I had the right materials to respond. :lol:

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I don't think it's necessarily the controller speaking.  The voices sounded much more demonic (which is why I'll say Keepers) than just a mumbled voice of a controller.  Not to mention, Sam would have never helped Richtofen in BO.  The voices are strange and I don't think any of us truly understand them.  I'll say this though.  I'm not sure Die Rise is the best understanding of the voices that we have.  Zetsubou seems to provide a better glimpse into the voices for us, wouldn't you say @NaBrZHunter?

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Donor

I'll start by saying great job on the thread. Glad you finally got it out!

 

On 5/31/2016 at 10:03 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

So, yes, canonically, zombies have souls. Let’s move on to debunking the theory itself: are souls ever used to power anything in the zombies universe?


Interestingly enough, it has never been said that souls can power anything. Direct quotes from Dr. Maxis and Dr. Richtofen (who we can safely assume to be the primary authorities on such subjects) explain that it is...more scientific than that. There is an explanation other than simple “supernatural” dark rituals. Richtofen's own quotes, taken from Origins, seem to quickly debunk it:

 

“I believe only in science.”

“Their energy is being refocused!”

"It is the transformative power of 115! It draws energy from matter, living or dead!”

-Dr. Richtofen, Origins

I think it is rather presumptuous to say this. I don't think anything about those quote quickly debunk anything. You say that there's no science behind souls being energy, but there's simply no evidence for that.

 

On 5/31/2016 at 10:03 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

“Departed souls leave residual energy in their wake, this energy must be used to fuel the lantern.” -Dr. Maxis, Buried

This quote seems to very clearly show that souls actually are energy, as "residual" means "remaining after the greater part or quantity is gone." By that, we can see that whatever energy going into these eggs and boxes are actually from the soul, not from something else.

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1 hour ago, Tac said:

I'll start by saying great job on the thread. Glad you finally got it out!

 

I think it is rather presumptuous to say this. I don't think anything about those quote quickly debunk anything. You say that there's no science behind souls being energy, but there's simply no evidence for that.

 

This quote seems to very clearly show that souls actually are energy, as "residual" means "remaining after the greater part or quantity is gone." By that, we can see that whatever energy going into these eggs and boxes are actually from the soul, not from something else.

Thanks man! As before, thanks for helping me grind through the details, even if we came to different conclusions. :P

 

In regards to your first point, if we can prove that energy and souls are are separate (though cooperating) properties of a conscious being composed of matter, then those quotes would all be a slam dunk, which brings me to the challenge you present with your second point: I need to prove that souls and energy are different properties, just as white and red blood cells may all be blood cells, yet are different properties intermingled and cooperating. 

 

So notice how, in Buried, Maxis refers to the lantern being a "vessel for energy; the energy contained within ALL matter."

Yet in order to charge it, we proximity kill zombies. Maxis continues, as you quoted, "departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern."

Therefore, it does not seem overly far fetched to say that that, since said energy is contained within all matter, yet not all matter has souls, that while both may be unleashed from the body after death and may have actually been related and cooperative in life, they are not the same thing.  

So let's use something slimy as an example - how about a snail? As a snail makes its way across a surface, it leaves a residual trail. What the snail leaves behind is not snail, but mucous that helps it to move without legs or other conventional means. 

The soul, also, seems bound to the body by life force; so that when the soul is released, the residual life force is also unbound. 

 

Note, he does not say, that a soul leaves residue behind, but rather that it leaves a residue of energy behind it. Also similar to the way a passing car leaves behind exhaust. It is not leaving behind car, it is leaving behind the residue of the fuel that had previously moved it along its course. 

 

 

@FatedTitan did I say controller? Oops, yeah, definitely not Sam. I was thinking Keepers too, except not from within the MPD, but from a perhaps more central distribution unit, if you will, that can distribute to multiple places via multiple MPDs. This theory is heavily based on 1) the voices Richtofen originally heard on the Moon after his discovery and 

2) Groph and the staff hearing Maxis' voice coming from the MPD despite it being unoccupied prior to Der Eisendrache. 

 

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20 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

 

2) Groph and the staff hearing Maxis' voice coming from the MPD despite it being unoccupied prior to Der Eisendrache. 

 

 

Can I get a quote for this?

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Sure @FatedTitan. Final radio, Der Eisendrache. 

 

Quote

Dr. Groph:  Despite the fact that all testing of the MPD has been put on hold, we have nonetheless observed a series of unprecedented and, dare I say it, erratic behaviors exhibited by the pyramid.  Comms, interference, and power outages have become common place, with many fearful for their own safety.  The perimeter guards on the Exclusion Zone have reported hearing voices emanating from the MPD, though external recordings do not corroborate their testimony.  Several individuals reported hearing the same exact words: I must go to her; the loop must be closed.  While most accounts claim that the words were spoken by an unidentified individual, several seem to believe that the quotation came from Dr. Maxis.  That, I know is not possible.  Such is the increasing atmosphere of paranoia that we have taken to ensuring the placement of survival suits throughout the facility, just in case essential life support systems should fail

 

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