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As the topic title suggests, this is a topic to discuss/debate religon.

 

I know religon is a touchy subject to some but I hope CODZ can have a mature discussion without it resorting to a flame war.

 

 

Are you religous?

 

 

 

Me personally, I am not a religous person, but I do consider myself a Christian as I was baptised when I was a baby and I do believe in a God.

 

Yes, I'm aware of science and everything it has proven, but there are some things science hasn't proven, such as every living creature being conscious and the incredibly strange events that some people have when someone has had a near death experience or when someone has passed.

 

Like when my Grandmother (Nan) passed away in 2001, I remember seeing her when I was on the coach on the way back from Blackpool and after my cat died I heard him meow the day after he died.

 

Granted you could be like "Not God, could be an afterlife", but I like to think my Nan and my Granddad are in heaven watching over me.

 

I also hope Heaven and Hell do exist so then those who did good during their time on Earth will be rewarded while those who made other people's lives hell get their own special treatment.

 

 

HOWEVER.

 

I do hate religous extremeists, like the ones who try to push their beliefs on you.

 

Like those people you see who are like "the end is coming!! Repent your sins!" etc and the ones who forge opinions based on whatever their holy book said.

 

Or like ISIS, who if you dare insult Islam/Allah/Prophet Muhammed you'll be sentenced to death, most likely a public beheading. (And that's a terrifying and humiliating way to go)

 

 

 

 

 

I consider myself respectful towards other people's beliefs if they aren't too pushy/arrogant with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So CODZ, what's your opinion on religon?

 

 

Try and keep it friendly please, I know it can be a very touchy subject for people.

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Donor

I pretty much think how you do overall. I'm not very religious, although I do want to read the bible some day. The stories do seem pretty interesting.

 

Above all, I just feel like some higher power had to create this universe. I just can't fathom how anything became anything otherwise. I would also like to believe that there is something after this life, both because I don't want everything to end, and I want to see everyone I have lost or will lose again.

 

Religious extremists can be horrible people. I don't think anyone should base their opinions of religion on those guys.

 

One more thing: I don't think it's fair to hate on religion because of how history kind of depicts it to cause war and conflict. More than anything, I'd say blame the people who decided to go to war due to it. They're the religious extremists of the old days.

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I always say "the white pawn and the black pawn are equally blind." It doesn't matter what you believe or who you follow, as long as you arrive at that conclusion on your own. Be a sheep herder, not a sheep. If you've seen stuff that makes you say "I believe in the afterlife" that's awesome. If you've seen nothing, and that lack of evidence makes you say "I don't believe, but I'm open minded" that's awesome. But if you just believe because your parents tell you to, that's no good. They aren't necessarily wrong, but they aren't necessarily right either. Alternately don't declare yourself atheist or satanist or whatever, simply because it goes against what you were told. If it's still just out of obligation, it's anti-conformism, which is just conformism wearing black. Both pawns are blind. Don't be a pawn. Be a player.

Anyway morals aside, I always identify as the religious middle-man. Science asks where we came from, Religion asks where we're going. I say just be a good person along the way, do what's right, and don't give a shit about desire for reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife. Do what's right because you want to, not because you want heaven.

Philosophy for life.

Again, I don't necessarily disbelieve. I just don't like worrying about religion. People get so caught up in worrying about the inevitability of their death, that they forget to actually live.

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Donor

To use Life of Pi as a reference

 

Which story do you want to hear?

 

Pretty much all religions are similar even science is similar

 

First there is nothing...then there is everything. It is just a matter of how you wish to tell the story.

 

I personally want to believe there is something after death because I at least want to stay conscious and remember things instead of just disappearing into a Dark void with no escape for all eternity. I am catholic but to be honest I don't really do much. I fall asleep in church, I believe there is something up there a God at least or A creator of some sort. 

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Allow me to apologise in advance for any offence that maybe caused from my post below. I am normally a very anti-confrontational person, particularly when online. I'm not sure why because online I am more anonymous then anywhere else, but there you go. Religion however always seems to get me going for a debate.

 

Now where do I begin on religion...

 

I believe all religions are nothing more than archaic methods of enforcing control over the masses (like I said this is my opinion on things, please do not take any offence). I do not think it was initially used as a form of oppression, merely a system of enforcing order before any form of policing or governance was introduced. This system of 'behave yourself or you will burn for eternity' worked will when the feeble human mind was in early development, a system which would have been created and instigated by the elite and well off to prevent the more humble man from taking what is his.

 

However as the human race has developed and grown as a species the holes in this concept of a divine celestial being show through, lets look through a few of the ten commandments in Christianity as an example to the hypocrisy embedded within religion (I may have paraphrased them a little):

 

You shall have no other gods before me

So despite being the one true god (in Christians eyes anyway) who loves all of his creations and allows them free will, they cannot choose to believe in another without consequence? 

 

You shall not make idols

To elaborate  "You shall not make yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them." Now maybe I am misinterpreting this, but is Jesus in 'heaven above', and do we not have carved statues of the man that a worshiped? The commandment states 'anything that is in heaven above' anything, not anything except God and JC. Does it then follow that all church going Christians are in violation of their own god's commandments?

 

You shall not take the name of the lord your god in vain

So, in essence you cannot get mad at a god who just sits back and allows the earth to fall into chaos. Ok.

 

Remember the Sabbeth day, to keep it holy

The Sabbeth day refers to Sunday, and this commandment continues to say "In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your servants, nor your cattle, nor a stranger within your gates". Now correct me if I'm wrong but do the Clergy not work on a Sunday?

 

You shall not murder

Unless your on a Crusade, ammarite.

 

Then there is the whole baptism thing. You have free will and the choice to do as you please, yet the Church has your parents take you to them to be "adopted" into their faith. Before you are even old enough to understand what faith is. Let the child grow and make his / her own mind up, don't force your beliefs onto your children.

 

Like I said, I don't want to offend anyone. The only reason I singled out Christianity above is that is my families religion (not mine) and as such I know a little about it.

 

In this modern day of governance an policing, religion is an outdated concept. That being said, if a person chooses to believe in a higher power and this belief gives them comfort then that is great. Anything that gives you peace of mind in this crazy world of corruption and hatred we find ourselves in has to be good, right.

 

I just cannot buy into it myself, I envy the religious in a way as they have a piece of mind that I don't.

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I like talking about religion and stuff, I am not religious but I always come up with these kind of observations that are interesting to think about. One I have had for a while is this: What if the universe we live in got to a point where a group of humans would be able to shape the world to be what they want. Then, one of them gets corrupt and destroys the universe, leaving only left overs and one survivor. This survivor then crafts the universe again by sacrificing themselves and using what was left from the past universe to ignite the fire of the next one, aka the big bang and it all ends up coming full circle like a loop where this keeps happening. I am not saying this is real or anything as I came up with it but to me its just kind of interesting to think about as it technically could be used as evidence for gods existence and the big bangs existence, in a better way than say Causation or Design is.

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one of them gets corrupt and destroys the universe, leaving only left overs and one survivor. This survivor then crafts the universe again by sacrificing themselves and using what was left from the past universe to ignite the fire of the next one, aka the big bang and it all ends up coming full circle like a loop where this keeps happening.

 

 Weasel has to survive to break the cycle.

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one of them gets corrupt and destroys the universe, leaving only left overs and one survivor. This survivor then crafts the universe again by sacrificing themselves and using what was left from the past universe to ignite the fire of the next one, aka the big bang and it all ends up coming full circle like a loop where this keeps happening.

 

 Weasel has to survive to break the cycle.

 

 

I had this idea way before zombies dude. Also weasel isnt the only person in a loop.

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I had this idea way before zombies dude. Also weasel isnt the only person in a loop.

 

Sorry, I didn't for a second truly believe that your theory was based on the side mode of a computer game. I just have my daft head on this afternoon.

 

I chose weasel as he can actually break his cycle.

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Lol I didnt meant in MotD in general. I actually like that idea I have, it cant be proven or dis proven which is interesting

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Donor

I wasn't go to post on this before today.  Mainly because I've said my views many times, but also because I just didn't want to have that kind of debate.

 

Then I went to my boys school today.

 

I'm Atheist, my partner and kids are Jewish.

It's was the Purim holiday celebration, where the children dress up, do a little performance within their class etc.

 

It's the first time I personally have been to the school in a few weeks and so it's easy to forget.

 

Today, there were 4 Army Commandos with sub machine guns, 8 policemen including 2 police dogs, plus the usual armed security force that is there everyday, of around 10 from a private security company.

The police and security are always there in those numbers anyway, the commandos were added after the recent European attacks.

 

My kids are about as well protected as any school children anywhere.  The layout of the school and the access to it means it's almost impossible for anything to happen.  10 foot fences the entire way around, only one entrance, plus all the security.

 

It's religion however that causes my children to have to walk through sub machine guns everyday.  People want to kill my children because of Religion.

 

I actually believe that Religion can serve a great purpose.  And then I think about the above.

 

Edit - I realised that this response was a little emotive, and didn't leave any room for discussion on it.

 

Christianity has the KKK.

Islam has ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood.

Judaism has Lehava.

 

And the above is the problem.  At least 95% of all religious people are decent people.  It's those 5% of terrorist groups who make like 90% of the noise, driving out any moderate voices.

 

Governments making decisions based on Religion is where the main problem is as I see it.

That could be Israel and Judaism, USA and Christianity and take your pick from almost anywhere in the Middle East or South East Asia for Islam.

 

The problem isn't religion, it's the fact that people abuse it so much.

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Dude, where do you live for that to happen at a school? That should not happen at any school.

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Donor

@Nightmare Voyager It's a private Jewish school somewhere outside of Brussels.  Which makes it a huge target.

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@Nightmare Voyager It's a private Jewish school somewhere outside of Brussels.  Which makes it a huge target.

 

Dude, the fact that stuff like that is happening anywhere in the world is wrong. No matter what you believe, free will should exist and everyone should have the choice to beleive in what they want. Why do you let your kids go there if that stuff happens?

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Donor

 

@Nightmare Voyager It's a private Jewish school somewhere outside of Brussels.  Which makes it a huge target.

 

Dude, the fact that stuff like that is happening anywhere in the world is wrong. No matter what you believe, free will should exist and everyone should have the choice to beleive in what they want. Why do you let your kids go there if that stuff happens?

 

Terrorism - the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

 

It's in the name, Terror.  If people live there lives according to the Terror that others inflict on them, the terrorists will end up winning.

 

I read a great quote somewhere recently, can't remember if it was fiction or from a journalist interview somewhere but I think it works.

'Generations and generations of my children and children's children will continue this fight.  We will get our goal in the end'.

 

It's this above which has always scared me.  Terrorists in most cases look at the long term.  Whilst an awful lot are incredibly intelligent and manipulative people, it's the brainwashed masses who believe in the above that means we can't give in.

 

Should I take my children out of their school?  Any Jewish school I find will always have security, it's just the way it is.  Every single Jewish building in Brussels has security outside - Museums, Synagouges, Banks even Delis.

In a way I'm lucky that my children go to a great school with really really good security.  My partner and I always wanted them to only have limited religious education, and this will more than likely be their last year.

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Christianity has the KKK.

Islam has ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood.

Judaism has Lehava.

 

I don't think the KKK are even active much anymore.

 

The Westboro Baptist church however, while they aren't "follow us or we'll kill you!", I'd say they're extremists for the fact the "protest" at funerals with God Hates Fags signs and the like.

 

 

 

And I agree, some people just want to go through life, believing the God, Jesus, Allah, Muhammed etc and they get harassed by the antics of ignorants who heard a specific group did something and everyone involved in that religon is like that.

 

 

I remember Reddit during the Charlie Hebdo shootings, everyone was attacking Muslims. "When was the last time a Christian beheaded in the name of Jesus?!?"

 

"Surprised they didn't blow it up" etc.

 

"This is why we should deport all Muslims"

 

etc. etc.

 

Of course you'll have extremeists in everything.

 

 

 

Hell, even in the noble sport of Football (soccer), you always have die hard fans who will assualt and chase anyone for making a bad comment about their team.

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Now that you mention that @TheNathanNS when that was going on, I couldn't fuuuuucking stand reddit. So I get the idea, it's cruel that someone should be punished for making a statement. 1st amendment aside, that's a basic right we should all have, man-made borders aside. But then everyone of reddit was like "hurr durr look at this drawing I did of Muhammad banging an animal, I'm fighting terrorists!" No you're just an asshole. You're blatantly doing something to offend literally every member of that religion, not jist making a benign statement about artistic freedom. Eat shit and die. People are dying for that right and you abuse it to express your racist assholery under the guise of that cause.

Edit: not suggesting the hebdo thing wasn't also offensive. I get that it's controversial. But people always take good things and use them to do bad things. It goes back to what we've already said about religion. Murder in the name of god? Racism in the name of freedom of art? Hmm.

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Donor

The main subs on reddits are all basically circlejerks now.

 

They post some good articles, quicker than anywhere....I've just learned to read the article before looking at the comments, and then laugh at the idiots who clearly have read the title only.

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I am not religious.

Sometimes people like to equate science as the religion of 'naturalism' but there is a few things which is in religion that isn't in scientific world view, and things in a scientific world view that are not present in a religion.

I don't see a need for a god or gods, or for a greater meaning in the purpose of the universe.

Therefore I don't agree with the central focus of most any religion.

The world makes sense to me without those.

If you want to bring up my opinions on specific religions, then they vary as much as the different religions of the world vary from each other.

In general I don't mind religions, except when they make assertions which contradict observable phenomenon, or contradict rational evaluation.

Edited by MegaAfroMan

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I like how the Pope said that the Big Bang Theory, as far as it has been proven, is fact. I mean, this doesn't mean he rules out gods existence but rather says we are finding gods method of creation. I am not religious but I find it interesting that they are managing to still keep to the stories of the bible. Anyways, Religion itself can be good as it gives people structure to their lives and if they want to get to the afterlife, they will strive to do so. Though having god(s) may seem unnecessary, I believe that it gives people faith, structure and hope. I couldn't care less which religion is right, all I care about is how we have such an interesting set of cultures which benefit the people that follow said religions.

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I have just recently found faith in God. It's a struggle, but I do believe in him and Christ.

 

 

That's good, I'm sure the first few weeks of having faith are the hardest.

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I have just recently found faith in God. It's a struggle, but I do believe in him and Christ.

 

 

That's good, I'm sure the first few weeks of having faith are the hardest.

 

Thank You Nathan. I appreciate it. Happy and Blessed Easter to you and yours! 

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