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The Flesh

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THE FLESH

The Flesh appears to be a secret society that consumes zombie flesh. Members also appear to be following the guidance of a voice inside their heads. Samuel Stuhlinger was once a member and has developed an appetite for zombie flesh. This is a secret he guards closely.

DIE RISE Intro Animation - Watch 0:19

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Samuel Stuhlinger: "You can't tell them about The Flesh. What I did. (voice changes) They'd kill me if they knew"

Samuel Stuhlinger's Tranzit quote further backs up his secret shame:

"uooh if the others discover what I've.. No No No! Don't even think about it Stuhlinger. They can never know."

Die Rise quote also speaks of a secret shame:

"What more do you want from me? I'm already ashamed of I did."

Samuel Stuhlinger Tranzit quotes hinting towards an appetite for zombie flesh:

"I came here to shoot meat and eat sandwiches. And I am fresh out of sandwiches."

"Ok, I bite. What gives?"

"Oh no, you don't bite me. I bite you!"

"Hmmmmph, man I am really working up an appetite."

"Now you're making me hungry"

"Ring em up! You're lunch meat"

"Burn you stupid crap-snacks! Burn!"

"Zeek soup coming up. Hmmmmm.... soup"

"Hey, how about you and me shoot us some lunch"

"You only saved my ass because without me you're dead meat and you know it. (voice changes) Mmmmmm meat."

"Wha Don't you judge me just because I get hungry. I'm a big man. I need my protein"

"Let me pick your teeth!"

"Here I come. That's right, he's next. Asking too many nosey questions about who I'm always talking to, and who I'm eating. No No No shut up!"

Samuel's Die Rise qoute also rings of a darker side to him:

"I don't blame you. (voice change) I'm hungry too."

TRANZIT Farm Radio - Watch 2:00

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Transmission #3 - Unknown Man:

What's that? Who's there? Wish I could see you. Of course I have; there's nothing else. No, I won't do that. How do I know you're not lying? You can be making all that up! Sure, that only makes sense… Oh my… Oh I see. Sure, sure. But… they're my friends. Yes, of course, I see now. I'll do it. I'll do it for you, for you and The Flesh.

DIE RISE Radio - Watch 2:44

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Transmission #3 - The Flesh Representative:

Science has failed us. He has abandoned us. In this new world we alone are your salvation. We alone can light the way. Hear our words. Heed our call. There is but one path to enlightenment. Just as they would consume us, we must consume them. We are the living, and we are the dead. We are The Flesh and The Flesh is us. We will not starve; We will thrive.

Why Cannibalism?

In Western cultures, cannibalism is considered taboo. For instance, you remember what happened to the Donner Party? Worst family road trip ever... Those that survived by consuming the flesh of their deceased were forever shunned as outcast by their community.

However for many tribal communities, cannibalism can be considered a cultural norm. Often these tribes will engage in a ritual cannibalism where the warriors will eat parts of their fallen rivals in attempt to gain some of their characteristics. Perhaps The Flesh are gaining powers by consuming the zombies.

People with cannibalistic tendancies are usually considered to be mentally ill. However consumption of human flesh is not formally listed as a mental disorder. This stigma seems to fit our three known members of The Flesh.

Interested to see how the role of The Flesh plays out in the continuing story line, and what will become of Stuhlinger's secret

- Mix

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This is a lovely breakdown of The Flesh. I knew the Stuhlinger was a designated member of some form of an occult, but never did I think it would be that expansive until hearing the Die Rise radio transmissions. It sheds a new light on him, despite us knowing his mental disposition.

So if Stu is an ex-member of the group, what other voices were talking to the original members? I keep thinking of perhaps Richtofen, but that's seemingly not the case. Though wasn't it said that Richtofen had some kind of twisted appetite where he'd be fascinated with the spleen (outside the experiment) and such? I'm sure it wasn't on a grander scale like Stuhlinger is on, but there's got to be some kind of comparison.

I'd just like to see what'll happen once the new crew finds out about his history. My oh my! Great work here Mix, you never fail to impress me. :)

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Something that my wife brought up: would you ever consider for China to be a cannibalistic country?

Warning: this is a highly sensitive topic, and should be under viewer discretion.

=====================================================

Cannibalistic China

Descriptions of cannibalism appear repeatedly in Chinese history, in numerous historical writings and literature, and most recently during the Cultural Revolution in the testimony of Cheng I, the Chinese film producer and writer who fled to Hong Kong in the spring of 1992 and sought asylum in the United States in 1993.

In his book Shokujin Enseki - Massatsu sareta Chugoku Gendaishi (Cannibal Banquet - Modern Chinese History Erased) (Tokyo: Kodansha Kappa Books, 1993), Cheng I describes in detail how, as a young Red Guard during the Cultural Revolution in south China, he witnessed hundreds of children, women and men classified as Counter-revolutionaries killed and eaten by the perpetrators, with such comments as "human meat tastes better when broiled than boiled."

In the recently published collection of studies Chugoku Igaishi, historian Okada Hidehiro quotes passages from the classic Ming dynasty (1368-1644) novel Water Margin, also known as All Men Are Created Equal, describing a group of villains who sell human meat as beef, as well as other characters who eat human flesh.

According to Okada, King Chu of the Ying dynasty (11th century BC) is alleged to have made salted meat and dried meat out of two feudal lords, as well as soup out of son of King Wen of Zhou, which he made King Wen eat.

During times of severe famine, a frequent occurence in China, cannibalism became marked.

The Great Historian Sima Qian records that in 594BC people ate each other's children and the dead in the walled city of Song, when it was besieged by the Chu army.

In the 9th century, towards the end of the Tang dynasty (618-906) a Persian trader reported that human flesh was being sold openly in markets.

During the 12th century, it was said that 15 jin (1 jin = 1.323lbs) of dried meat was obtained from one human being.

Towards the turbulent close of Yuan dynasty (1276-1368), it was said that children's meat was best, then women's, and the least were men's.

Cannibalism was practiced not merely for sheer survival, but also as a means of revenge. Lu Xun (1881-1936) recounts such a case in his work, in which a revolutionary was killed in 1907 and his heart eaten by an enemy. This incident may have also inspired Lu Xun to write his celebrated novel Diary of a Madman (1918), in which cannibalism serves as an analogy for the decrepit state of modern China.

The Chinese also believed medicinal benefits could be obtained from eating human flesh, and the benefits are described in their 16th century medicinal book Bencao Ganmu.

http://www.chinasucks.org/cannibalism.htm

============================

I understand that Samuel was more than likely irrelevant to these circumstances in China, but this is where cannibalism can be best traced from. The cult that is mentioned in the television radios sounds awfully similar to that of the previously said document, but may differ according to their intentions. Nobody would just eat human/zombie flesh because it looks appetizing; there is a reason behind it. Stuhlinger knows that, and plans on keeping his dark history a secret between him and Richtofen. That is why Richtofen threatens to blackmail Stu in order to make him obey his every command.

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very cool stuff, guys. I'm really starting to wonder how The Flesh will further tie into our story.

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Nice work Mix, dark is good for zombies.

Also, little node to District 9 here.

Sacrifice & cannabalism is a common theme in Satanism.

The reason for doing so is this:

When you create fear in a subject, hormones are released in the brain, the person performing the ritual sacrifice then consumes the blood of the victim & gets a high from the higher level of endorphins.

Pretty sick.

Eating zombie flesh would turn you, however the diference is in how the infection enters the body.

With a bite or scratch the infection enters the blood stream directly resulting in acelerated infection rates. Plus you have the trauma of the wounds affecting the subject in speed & agility.

But when the infection is eaten, the pathway is through the gut. Humans have an immune system based around the gut. How would this affect the infected subject?

I think it could be possible to see a half breed of sorts, retaining higher functions & due to the subjects good condition agility & speed are maintained if not improved due to the subjects ability to not feel pain.

Infact are they dead?

This could really throw things in a new direction.

Smarter Zombies, faster & more deadly.

Possibly targets for Demonic possessions.

Things get pretty insane in the world of the evil undead.

Again nice thread here Mix.

I'll be back for more.

Edit back again: This is Richtofen MKII, Spleens & all. Did Richtofen eat the spleens? Like Hannibal & the liver.

Some people believe when you consume the flesh of another you take their life force.

We are now in Vampire land.

Also this brings me back to District 9 eating the Aliens flesh to take their power.

Also Vlad the Impaler the bases of modern Dracula legends. Which leads me back to modern Royal families. Prince Charles is proud of the fact that he is a decendant of Vlad (Don't believe me, go look it up).

From here it is a small step to the Illuminati & their ilk. (Masons)

Just look into Jimmy Saville & the Royals to see what you can connect to Ritual Sacrifice & Cannabalism.

Treyarch follow current events then.

InfestLithium nice post also, I see why you have UOTM, congratulations.

Regards Alpha.

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Alpha, your reservoir of knowledge on Cannibalism is disturbing to say the least.

I mentioned in my OP that some tribal cultures will consume the flesh of their fallen rivals, in order to gain some of their characteristics. I believe the term you used, "lifeforce", is a more accurate description of it.

Stuhlinger's occasional demonic voice change (ie "They'd kill me if they knew") lends me to believe that consuming zombie flesh has brought out this vicious side in him. This may also be how The Flesh appear to hear voices insides their heads. These new characteristics are likely part of a zombie's lifeforce being adopted.

Can't forget Richtofen's quote about eating spleens. That might be more relevant now than ever.

Regardless of how crazy The Flesh appear to be, no one would willingly consume rotten irradiated zombie flesh without good reason for doing so.

- Mix

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Modern Day depiction of ritual tribal cannibalism

BJ Penn celebrates his wins by licking the blood (lifeforce) of his opponent off his gloves

What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger

- Mix

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Alpha, your reservoir of knowledge on Cannibalism is disturbing to say the least.

This whole thread is quite disturbing.

I got the feeling from the intro cutscene that 'The Flesh' seemed like it was an organisation or Cult. I'm not sure if that's what it or you guys are eluding to, possibly a 'way of life' in a zombie apocalypse as a way to survive to a sense.

====================

The 1st TV Transmission I think refers more to being 'weary' of Stu rather than telling the backstory. What is highlighted in Red to me, is clearly directed at us to watch out for Stu. What is he plotting against the other 3?

Taken from Jinro's thread HERE

Message #1 - George Barkley

Attention to all on this channel! 

This is George Barkley

Former Assistant Director of the C.D.C facility in Druid Hills, Georgia.

Prior to thee destruction of are headquarters, are research found evidence that contaminant's are now infecting the very air we breath. As such, exposure of some sort is something that is inevitable for all survivors.

Some clues are variable... but most subject's display sign's of short-term memory loss, psychosis, dillusion and paranoia.

Short-term memory loss has also been reported.. but as of yet, we've been unable to confirm this. We advise all individuals to monitor their fellow survivors for sign's of the above symptoms... paranoia in particular.

Ask yourself...

Are those closest to you really who you think they are? 

Are they following their own secret agenda? 

Are they perhaps plotting against you?

The dangers presented by such symptoms cannot be overstated! 

It is with great sadness, that i myself was forced to euthanize 14 members of my own team... my condolences to their families.. 

I hope this message serve's as a warning to all survivors, we must all do whatever it takes to ensure are future as a species. Thank you."

====================

Some Richtofen Flesh quotes, Credit to Trevbo for these transcripts.

Kino der Toten:

"I take your pain, I put my straw in it, *slurping noises* AND I DRINK IT UP!"— Upon getting a kill.

"Tiny little organ parts for everybody!"— Killing a zombie with explosives

"It's tearing my shins! Delicious!"— When attacked by a crawler.

"Yes, now their kidneys will be all MINE! But none for you, Dempsey!"— After buying a M14 off the wall.

Ascension:

"The insides of your head are delicious!"— After getting a headshot

Shi No Numa:

"I'll swallow your spleen raw!"— After killing a zombie monkey

Moon:

"Enough spleen for everyone! Wunderbar!"— When killing several Zombies with a frag grenade

"The... Doctor... is... almost... out... of... SPLEENS!"— When taking the P.E.S off outside

I especially like this one - "I take your pain, I put my straw in it, *slurping noises* AND I DRINK IT UP!"

Nice work as always Mix.

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I don't believe that the ties between the Nazi's, The Vril=Ya, and Satanism is coincidental. The Vril Society (If I remember correctly, and will try to verify with a link.) was part of the foundation of the Nazi Party. Hitler convinced people that the Aryan Race was the supreme race chosen by the Vril-Ya and attempted to actually find them and make a treaty with them. They sent expeditions to the South Pole to try and find the entrance to the "Inner Earth" or Agartha because he and his advisors believed they could ally with the Vril-Ya. This is all real world information and the basis of Group 935 in zombies. (Also the basis for "HYDRA" in Capt. America Movie and Comics.)

Hitler himself was practicing satanic rituals. He also knew things that few other people on earth knew about.

I will do my very best to find links to back up what im saying because im sure I won't get everything.

Hitler was aware of "Anti - Gravitational Fields" very early on in his rise to power. It is speculated that he became interested when when he would see glowing orbs following around aircraft.

After finding out about Vril Energy he put his top guys on the job to figure out as much as they could.

One thing they figured out was the existance of "Super fluids" that are essentially metals that can be transformed into a liquid state and effectively conduct electricity. The prime example of a "super fluid" here on earth is Mercury.

This is where Element 115 comes into play. In game Hitler is already hard at work looking for his "wander weapon" and after the discovery of an anomalous material Element 115 he tasks Group 935 with R & D on pruducts of this radioactive material.

In germany in the 1920's it was not uncommon for a sayance to be performed. After or before dinner they would gether around the table and attempt to contact the dead or bring forth spirits or energies.

The Vril society was at the core of the Nazi party and at the core of The Vril Society was some very satanic rituals. The temple where Adalph was prophecised to be the ruler of the Third reich actually was centred by a Sacrificial Alter.

Basically anything to get Hitler more power, he believed and was trying to accomplish. This includes getting the "Spear of Destiny" as well, as it was said that this artifact contained magical abilities.

LINKS

http://www.newsmonster.co.uk/paranormal ... rmany.html -Satanism and Vril Society at the center of Nazi Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha -Agartha

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/212_fall200 ... erties.htm -superfluids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr_s28wIOzQ -AlienScientist - The physics of Anti Gravity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rHHlJJ6Vj0 -Vril Society and Nazi Satanic Cult (Documentary) (Havent seen this myself, so i cannot say which parts to watch. but if your interested try the whole thing. its 40 minutes long tho :( .)

All of these elements seem to tie into Nazi Zombies pretty well. (Or Zombies.)

Thaughts?

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Remember this Mictlantecuhtli reference from the Nuketown Loading Screen I found

I originally posted the info over on Rissole's Nuketown Loading Screen thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=25002#p241927

and it's also pointed on my Nuketown Loading Screen Analysis thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=28769

Anyways...

In Aztec mythology, Mictlantecuhtli, is the God of the Undead, and the King of the Underworld. He is the Aztec equivalent to Lucifer. His descriptions fit that of a undead ghoul. Worship to Mictlantecuhtli can involve ritual cannibalism.

Sounds a lot like Richtofen and The Flesh, amiright?.... Right!

Mictlantecuhtli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mictlantecuhtli

Props to Way2g00 for reminding me about this connection.

- Mix

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I just updated the OP with some interesting quotes from Samuel on Die Rise that I think help lend themselves to this side of the story.

If anyone has the full audio clip of all Samuel's quotes on Die Rise, please PM me. I was to see if there are any more clues I might be able to add to the list.

- Mix

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Maybe the Flesh and Stu can hear Richtofen because they ate zombie flesh? It would make sense. Becoming one with the zombies.

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Awards

Maybe the Flesh and Stu can hear Richtofen because they ate zombie flesh? It would make sense. Becoming one with the zombies.

I believe that's what the survivor from Jackass Flats may have been trying to tell us...

Listen @ 0:47

hAGetBv3gLc

Transmission #2 - Unknown Man - Jackass Flats.

"Hello, hello. This is Jackass Flats. Calling any human community within broadcasting distance. We're located at standard map coordinates 37 degrees 07 North, 116 degrees 03 West. This is a warning to anyone contacted by a group of mysterious voices. Several of our party began to hear the voices, and they're competing instructions and combatible demands drove a wedge down the center of the camp. Half of the camp is carrying out the demands of...(static)...through electronics ...(static)...This voice is a big long...(static)...and it's ultimate goal's unclear. The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not...(static)...arm the lo...(static)...madness this way lies. Neither of these instruction sets will...(static)...understand...(static)...Those of us who have not chosen a side have been hunted by both sides, seeking the forces to assist their...(static)...oh god they found me...(static) ...no, get back! Stop! Ahhhh!"

Try to fill in the gaps of the inaudible parts. I believe the parts I hightlighted in red are talking about Richtofen's followers, The Flesh, and how the members communicate with him.

- Mix

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Has anyone considered the possibility that Maxis knows about The Flesh, and his final intentions would be to end it as well as the zombies? This would mean good old Stu going down in the end. It would make sense considering he has been siding with Richtofen because of the whole Flesh Blackmail, and it'd be like the opposite of how Richtofen rose to power on the Moon. Picture the Pylons being a Wunderwaffe DG4, shooting off a worldwide rays taking anyone with 115 in their system out. Richtofen wouldn't have much power then anymore, would he?

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I mentioned in my OP that some tribal cultures will consume the flesh of their fallen rivals, in order to gain some of their characteristics. I believe the term you used, "lifeforce", is a more accurate description of it.

This "lifeforce" or power that some tribal cultures receive by eating the corpses of their enemies could in fact be the points from zombies. By killing the zombies we gain their life force (points) and then sacrifice it to make us and our weapons stronger (perks and pap). Occasionally this consumption of life force would reward the characters in a more immediate way, in the form of drops. Maybe the flesh eaters in zombies hope that they can gain these powers by eating the flesh of zombies.

Some form of demon could be the unintelligible voice that is heard in the opening cut scene. Also, when pack a punching a weapon on Ascension, Takeo sometimes says "Pack-A-Punch, work your Black Magic!", almost as if the PaP machine is demonic in origin.

on the nuketown zombies loading screen, in the bottom left corner their is part of a gum rapper that says "uhtli." Now this seems the ending of the name Mictlantecuhtli, the Aztec god of death. The worship of this god sometime involved ritual cannibalism, and there are accounts from European explorers and conquerors as well as evidence from archaeological digs that the Aztecs practiced cannibalism, though to what extent is still debated. In addition to this, Mictlantecuhtli is associated with the Day of the Dead, a Mexican holiday in which the living visit their dead relatives and the souls of the dead are encouraged to speak with the living. This could very well mean that the flesh eating could lead to a map set in Mesoamerica and that is related to the Aztecs and the Aztecs' religion.

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Listen @ 0:47

hAGetBv3gLc

Transmission #2 - Unknown Man - Jackass Flats.

"Hello, hello. This is Jackass Flats. Calling any human community within broadcasting distance. We're located at standard map coordinates 37 degrees 07 North, 116 degrees 03 West. This is a warning to anyone contacted by a group of mysterious voices. Several of our party began to hear the voices, and they're competing instructions and combatible demands drove a wedge down the center of the camp. Half of the camp is carrying out the demands of...(static)...through electronics ...(static)...This voice is a big long...(static)...and it's ultimate goal's unclear. The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not...(static)...arm the lo...(static)...madness this way lies. Neither of these instruction sets will...(static)...understand...(static)...Those of us who have not chosen a side have been hunted by both sides, seeking the forces to assist their...(static)...oh god they found me...(static) ...no, get back! Stop! Ahhhh!"

Try to fill in the gaps of the inaudible parts. I believe the parts I hightlighted in red are talking about Richtofen's followers, The Flesh, and how the members communicate with him.

- Mix

because the quote in green about instructions says that they are receiving them through electronics seems like they are Richtofen's followers, while the ones in red seem to be Maxis as the man from jackass flats may be saying that "The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not turned off the power.

this would confirm that the second group follows Maxis, not Richtofen.

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because the quote in green about instructions says that they are receiving them through electronics seems like they are Richtofen's followers, while the ones in red seem to be Maxis as the man from jackass flats may be saying that "The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not turned off the power.

this would confirm that the second group follows Maxis, not Richtofen.

Notice that Maxis's ingame communications are always through an electronic device. For me that confirms they are Maxis's followers, not Richtofen's.

Everything I marked in Red has to do with Richtofen's messages and group called The Flesh.

- Mix

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MrDalekJD just uploaded a theory video about The Flesh. (Has he been reading my codz threads again? ;) )

The video is worth a look because MrDalekJD brings up some new points we haven't brought up here

8Q2C2qafBY4

MrDalekJD makes some interesting points about one of Samantha's quotes from the Moon.

He also thinks the guys talking about The Flesh in both the Tranzit and Die Rise transmissions are the same person. I'm not so sure? I'll have to look into this more. What do you guys think? If it is the same voice, then a personality transformation has definitely taken place.

- Mix

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Listen @ 0:47

hAGetBv3gLc

Transmission #2 - Unknown Man - Jackass Flats.

"Hello, hello. This is Jackass Flats. Calling any human community within broadcasting distance. We're located at standard map coordinates 37 degrees 07 North, 116 degrees 03 West. This is a warning to anyone contacted by a group of mysterious voices. Several of our party began to hear the voices, and they're competing instructions and combatible demands drove a wedge down the center of the camp. Half of the camp is carrying out the demands of...(static)...through electronics ...(static)...This voice is a big long...(static)...and it's ultimate goal's unclear. The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not...(static)...arm the lo...(static)...madness this way lies. Neither of these instruction sets will...(static)...understand...(static)...Those of us who have not chosen a side have been hunted by both sides, seeking the forces to assist their...(static)...oh god they found me...(static) ...no, get back! Stop! Ahhhh!"[/i

Try to fill in the gaps of the inaudible parts. I believe the parts I hightlighted in red are talking about Richtofen's followers, The Flesh, and how the members communicate with him.

- Mix

because the quote in green about instructions says that they are receiving them through electronics seems like they are Richtofen's followers, while the ones in red seem to be Maxis as the man from jackass flats may be saying that "The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not turned off the power.

this would confirm that the second group follows Maxis, not Richtofen.

I agree that the red is obviously for richtofen, now if we could just try and put something in that static spot, I have no idea what would fit though.

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because the quote in green about instructions says that they are receiving them through electronics seems like they are Richtofen's followers, while the ones in red seem to be Maxis as the man from jackass flats may be saying that "The other voice cannot be heard by humans who have not turned off the power.

this would confirm that the second group follows Maxis, not Richtofen.

Notice that Maxis's ingame communications are always through an electronic device. For me that confirms they are Maxis's followers, not Richtofen's.

Everything I marked in Red has to do with Richtofen's messages and group called The Flesh.

- Mix

Mix you are right, I mixed up :lol: . The staticked out part that you marked in red could be the man from jackass saying that the only people who could hear Richtofen are those who ate flesh. Also, the man from jackass is saying that one who communicates through electronics (Maxis) is unclear in what he want, much like how we don't really understand what Maxis's goals are with the towers and giving us orders.

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MrDalekJD just uploaded a theory video about The Flesh. (Has he been reading my codz threads again? ;) )

The video is worth a look because MrDalekJD brings up some new points we haven't brought up here

8Q2C2qafBY4

MrDalekJD makes some interesting points about one of Samantha's quotes from the Moon.

He also thinks the guys talking about The Flesh in both the Tranzit and Die Rise transmissions are the same person. I'm not so sure? I'll have to look into this more. What do you guys think? If it is the same voice, then a personality transformation has definitely taken place.

- Mix

Looking at Dalek's video, I'm starting to think not only that Stu was a member the Flesh but also that the man who abandoned the Flesh was Stu. Stu says that he does not want the others (the other 3 in the group) to know about the flesh, and I used to think that just meant Stu eating zombies or maybe humans. But now, I think that Stu doesn't want the other three to know about the flesh because he himself was part of that group. If Stu was in fact part of the flesh, now that he is now with the other three says to me that he left the flesh. Thus, the abandoner that the man on that radio is talking about could be Stu. If so, then the fact that the man on the radio seemingly making a big deal about this abandonment would suggest that Stu was high ranking member of the Flesh, or was otherwise important to the Flesh.

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Looking at Dalek's video, I'm starting to think not only that Stu was a member the Flesh but also that the man who abandoned the Flesh was Stu. Stu says that he does not want the others (the other 3 in the group) to know about the flesh, and I used to think that just meant Stu eating zombies or maybe humans. But now, I think that Stu doesn't want the other three to know about the flesh because he himself was part of that group. If Stu was in fact part of the flesh, now that he is now with the other three says to me that he left the flesh. Thus, the abandoner that the man on that radio is talking about could be Stu. If so, then the fact that the man on the radio seemingly making a big deal about this abandonment would suggest that Stu was high ranking member of the Flesh, or was otherwise important to the Flesh.

You're talking about this line, right?

Science has failed us. He has abandoned us.

That's an interesting observation to think "He" might be Stuhlinger, because Stuhlinger appears to have been a former member of The Flesh.

I've always assumed "He" might be referring to either God or the voice of Dr. Maxis. It's very ambiguous at this point as to "He" is. I like your idea though.

- Mix

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