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MysteryMachineX

A Zombie Trilogy v.III [NOW IN VIDEO]

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Excellent post Grill. I'll just re-quote this really important part:

I'm going to say this is the nicest way I know how - if you believe that it's all "a game", then you are taking Treyarch's bait. They want you to focus on the most obvious thing. Oh don't worry about those monolithic statues of the O4 wearing ancient (Agarthan, as it's been suggested) clothes in the excavation site. Don't worry about the fact that there is a torn up picture floating around ORIGINS of the O4 presenting their staffs while wearing ancient clothes next to a Jersalum like city. Don't worry about who originally found that picture, about who tore it up so the O4 wouldn't find it. Don't worry about who knew the O4 were coming to the excavation site, and who had planned it all along. Sorry for the sarcasm, but it's all true, man. We have SO MANY clues as to "there is more going on then meets the eye" that I simply cannot, and will not accept that it's simply all a children's game.

Not to say that the rest of it was unimportant. I appreciate you spelling it out. Thank you very much.

You must think children had twisted forms of humor. Not to mention you are completing ignoring the line of "My dad has a plan." How much other evidence are you flat-out ignoring?

I would hardly say that one line is evidence to support the whole storyline being real. For a start, we still have the American Samantha in the bedroom, yet a German father calling her down to the basement.

As for children's imaginations... I remember playing with my toys as a child and being pretty wild and imaginative in what I did. Also, having JFK and the CotD crew being a part of their game does not prove it is still real, as we are not even 100% sure of what time frame it is when we see the children playing in the bedroom. It may look like it could be set between the 1940's to possibly the 60's, but for all we know it could be set in 2013, and all these people would then be known to the children.

Still... you are right about the Vril. They are referenced several times though out the maps, and it is also well known that Nazi's believed them to be a real race (see The Morning of the Magicians), so it makes even more sense to see them as being an integral part of the storyline.

Either way, the end sequence does still suggest strongly that it IS just a game, but as you said... the last words uttered by Samantha does leave the door open for anything to be possible still, and your timeline video was brilliantly though out and highly convincing. :)

The entire game reference the idea of a cycle. Samantha said it. Richtofen said it. Maxis said it. The mobsters said it. The survivors said it. What more do you want? The ending is not a present with a bow tie but actually the final puzzle to a board that has been given to us piece by piece for the past few years.

Just read Grill's post. Open your mind.

@Slade:

1. Richtofen teleported them to China and then left them to walk all the way to Africa. And when he finally chats with Stuhlinger again, both he and Samuel are surprised to see each other. We are also told that in their absence Richtofen and Maxis have been killing other survivors.

2. Okay, that's a typo. Thank you.

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The entire game reference the idea of a cycle. Samantha said it. Richtofen said it. Maxis said it. The mobsters said it. The survivors said it. What more do you want? The ending is not a present with a bow tie but actually the final puzzle to a board that has been given to us piece by piece for the past few years.

I am not disputing that. Up until Origins was released, I still firmly believed in the storyline and despite the previous BO2 maps being a bit linear in story and mystery, I was still every bit as passionate.

The reason I am still a believer that the Origins ending is a confirmation of the storyline being nothing more than fabrication, despite the serious depth to it all, is that Treyarch are planning on a reboot (of sorts) of the franchise and this was their way putting the current storyline to bed.

Yeah, it would be a shitty move on their part, but I still feel this is what they have done. I have heard what the next game (particularly zombies) is going to be about, and although I want to believe it to be false, it's hard given the track record of the source.

Either way, Origins was a bit of a farce when it came to the storyline. I commend you for managing to take so much positives from it, and it may be the case that we are taking their bait, but it also goes on to explain all the ridiculous and exaggerated features within zombies, like perk drinks, power ups, pack a punch, magic, ghosts and monsters.

My guess is that in the next game will be an attempt at a more realistic zombies that is happening in the real world that Samantha, Eddie and her Father occupy.

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I just heard a quote from richtofen on origins where he said when he first started experimenting with element 115 he started to fall in and out of reality. What do you take from this? Doesn't this support an alternative reality. Can this show/support that samantha could control 115 so well that she could create an alternate reality?

Edit: i found the quote and it is here at 2:18. It basically says that the element itself went in and out of reality. But I still suggest hearing it yourself.

What does that mean mmx?

Edit again to avoid posting twice

I have heard of richtofen's quote regarding the mark 2 in game before. It refers to him saying that maxis must have kept these plans away from him or something like that.

Oh? I heard that quote but the quote itself did not say what he was referring to. He also has a quote about how the Mark II shouldn't exist since they only just now built the Mark I. So I think Richtofen's hypothesis that the Mark II's origins is Maxis's secrets is incorrect, as opposed to the real conclusion, that the Mystery Box pulls weapons from different eras.

EDIT: MonkeyBomb, I'd say give it a week or so.

I found the quote i was referring to. In the same video above, go to 25:27

He asks himself if maxis has kept the weapon secret to him. This could be likely because there are other weapons that maxis kept from richtofen.

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If you listen carefully in Town in TranZit, occasionally a train will pass underneath.

I have not found videos, so I listened In Game with push the volume up and I have not heard anything special (except 2 alarms).

The other two Pyramids were catastrophically launched into the sky. One moved into orbit around the Earth. The other landed on the Moon

Where do you get this from? I remember the pyramid on the moon (MPD) but not one in space, or anything about them being "launched into the sky".

It comes from ancient Buddhism, and it explains the purpose of the pyramids. There's one on the Moon. One you see floating in Call of the Dead / Moon's loading screen. And the Shangri-LA Pyramid. The idea is from MixMasterNut, which he detailed in this thread here:

http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/vBulle ... 5-30-12%29

3 pyramids not really useful or 3 MPD ?

She in orbit makes me think of Black Knight Satellite.

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I have heard what the next game (particularly zombies) is going to be about, and although I want to believe it to be false, it's hard given the track record of the source . . .

My guess is that in the next game will be an attempt at a more realistic zombies that is happening in the real world that Samantha, Eddie and her Father occupy.

Have you heard from your mysterious source, or is it your guess?

Either way I hardly see why either would be important for evidence on this forum.

It's basically saying "I understand and agree with your logic, but my guy said it's wrong, and I can't tell you much else but I trust him and so should you."

If you can't detail evidence on how you have insight into the next zombies chapter, then there is absolutely no point in bringing ir up at all on a discussion forum.

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Have you heard from your mysterious source, or is it your guess?

Either way I hardly see why either would be important for evidence on this forum.

It's basically saying "I understand and agree with your logic, but my guy said it's wrong, and I can't tell you much else but I trust him and so should you."

If you can't detail evidence on how you have insight into the next zombies chapter, then there is absolutely no point in bringing ir up at all on a discussion forum.

No, I heard it through one of the PTG videos, and given Benn's track record (despite my disdain for him), I can only assume there is a strong chance it could be true.

I did not mention any of what I heard in the video though so as to comply with the 'No Leaks' policy that is in place.

As for why I mentioned it... I said it because it was my reasoning on why the storyline could indeed be over. I did not say it in a malicious way, so I don't see the issue here.

Still, apologies if I offended you or anyone else.

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I probably overreacted a bit. But still, it really isn't a valid logical point. It could be a personal point, but it doesn't serve well in a discussion.

His statements only work as evidence, if you've already came to a conclusion.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in his record. He got lucky with some Mob of the Dead stuff, and got a small amount of things right for Origins. He was waay off base with BO2 as a whole when he was predicting it if I remember correctly.

I wouldn't doubt he's got some insider info, but I also wouldn't doubt he could be completely wrong. He hasn't yet given us good predictions for maps containing the N4, and he never was very on base with BO1.

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I probably overreacted a bit. But still, it really isn't a valid logical point. It could be a personal point, but it doesn't serve well in a discussion.

You're right, and I agree it was pointless is mentioning it in the post. It does not really have a place in a thread like this, but thankfully I did not really take too much of the video in, and my actual guess of a more realistic zombies set in the real world Samantha and Eddie occupy was purely down to the sequence itself, as if it turns out to be real and all our current storyline IS just fabrication, then you would have to expect to be seeing the last of things like chalk weapons, magic, pack-a-punch and demonic narrations (as well as the quotes that break the 4th wall) and instead we would see a real world scenario.

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I just can't see that being true, as all the semi-mysticism has been a staple of zombies. And although they leave holes, I do think they keep things within the realm of sci-fi explainable. MMX made a rather interesting read on the properties of 115 which shows that while it wasn't handed to us, we can make a psuedo scientific explaination for most of the mysticism.

But I can see your point. Sorry I flipped out.

Either way, as long as zombies lives on, I guess.

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It's cool man. I see the logic behind it being best not to mention things like that so no harm done.

I sincerely hope that the ending is not true myself, and I know that zombies has always been about time travel, alternate timelines and numerous other things that can go some way to explaining the end sequence, but then you look at the things that support it and it starts to make you think.

Things like the characters always breaking the 4th wall when talking to the player, and the illogical things in the first place, like chalk weapons, magic power up drops and the perk a colas, which some can be explained easily, but what about perks like Quick Revive, Vulture Aid, PHD or even Mule Kick? A perk that lets you hold 3 weapons!?! You don't need a drink to be able to do that.

I just think that there is a lot of things that support the case that the ending is indeed just the children playing a game, and if it's true, so be it. Treyarch already have my money for the next game. lol.

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Something I would like to get input on, in the Origins intro, Samantha referes to our players as "three Heroes" yet in the picture that is torn up, it shows all four people standing as heroes, and I'm pretty sure there are four statues as well. I understand Richtofen isn't usually a Hero, but he does save Maxis to an extent and gives the other players info on whats going on...dunno, just a thought I wanted to share. Why isn't he credited as a hero? As strange as that's sounding right now :lol:

Another thought, in the ending scene of Origins, Samantha tells Richtofen that it's his turn next. Do you think this means that the story will go back to a linear, "this is what happens" sort of story, or do you think the quote is meaningless and there will always be a split time line? It just seems that if Richtofen gets his turn tomorrow, then he was never thwarted by Maxis, showing that the BO2 crew ultimately helped Richtofen?

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The entire game reference the idea of a cycle. Samantha said it. Richtofen said it. Maxis said it. The mobsters said it. The survivors said it. What more do you want? The ending is not a present with a bow tie but actually the final puzzle to a board that has been given to us piece by piece for the past few years.

I am not disputing that. Up until Origins was released, I still firmly believed in the storyline and despite the previous BO2 maps being a bit linear in story and mystery, I was still every bit as passionate.

The reason I am still a believer that the Origins ending is a confirmation of the storyline being nothing more than fabrication, despite the serious depth to it all, is that Treyarch are planning on a reboot (of sorts) of the franchise and this was their way putting the current storyline to bed.

Yeah, it would be a shitty move on their part, but I still feel this is what they have done. I have heard what the next game (particularly zombies) is going to be about, and although I want to believe it to be false, it's hard given the track record of the source.

Either way, Origins was a bit of a farce when it came to the storyline. I commend you for managing to take so much positives from it, and it may be the case that we are taking their bait, but it also goes on to explain all the ridiculous and exaggerated features within zombies, like perk drinks, power ups, pack a punch, magic, ghosts and monsters.

My guess is that in the next game will be an attempt at a more realistic zombies that is happening in the real world that Samantha, Eddie and her Father occupy.

Well you've made your opinion clear, and as you know I don't agree with it. I would suggest that having the timeline wiped clean accomplishes the same cleansing effect, but I don't think it is of any use going back and forth on it.

I just heard a quote from richtofen on origins where he said when he first started experimenting with element 115 he started to fall in and out of reality. What do you take from this? Doesn't this support an alternative reality. Can this show/support that samantha could control 115 so well that she could create an alternate reality?

Edit: i found the quote and it is here at 2:18. It basically says that the element itself went in and out of reality. But I still suggest hearing it yourself.

What does that mean mmx?

Edit again to avoid posting twice

I have heard of richtofen's quote regarding the mark 2 in game before. It refers to him saying that maxis must have kept these plans away from him or something like that.

Oh? I heard that quote but the quote itself did not say what he was referring to. He also has a quote about how the Mark II shouldn't exist since they only just now built the Mark I. So I think Richtofen's hypothesis that the Mark II's origins is Maxis's secrets is incorrect, as opposed to the real conclusion, that the Mystery Box pulls weapons from different eras.

EDIT: MonkeyBomb, I'd say give it a week or so.

I found the quote i was referring to. In the same video above, go to 25:27

He asks himself if maxis has kept the weapon secret to him. This could be likely because there are other weapons that maxis kept from richtofen.

Yes, yes, I've heard that quote. I think the strongest thing that quote implicates is various effects 115 has upon time and space. I think it further supports all the displacement in the storyline. As for Maxis, I agree. Maxis kept quite a few things from Maxis. In his defense, I'd have kept things from Richtofen too.

@Schrodinger: Not sure what you're saying about the pyramids.

Have you heard from your mysterious source, or is it your guess?

Either way I hardly see why either would be important for evidence on this forum.

It's basically saying "I understand and agree with your logic, but my guy said it's wrong, and I can't tell you much else but I trust him and so should you."

If you can't detail evidence on how you have insight into the next zombies chapter, then there is absolutely no point in bringing ir up at all on a discussion forum.

No, I heard it through one of the PTG videos, and given Benn's track record (despite my disdain for him), I can only assume there is a strong chance it could be true.

I did not mention any of what I heard in the video though so as to comply with the 'No Leaks' policy that is in place.

As for why I mentioned it... I said it because it was my reasoning on why the storyline could indeed be over. I did not say it in a malicious way, so I don't see the issue here.

Still, apologies if I offended you or anyone else.

PlayTheGame has been wrong more often than they have been right. Nothing they say about anything upcoming should be taken seriously.

As for the rest of the MegaAfroMan-DeathBringerZen discussion, I'd rather not comment.

Something I would like to get input on, in the Origins intro, Samantha referes to our players as "three Heroes" yet in the picture that is torn up, it shows all four people standing as heroes, and I'm pretty sure there are four statues as well. I understand Richtofen isn't usually a Hero, but he does save Maxis to an extent and gives the other players info on whats going on...dunno, just a thought I wanted to share. Why isn't he credited as a hero? As strange as that's sounding right now :lol:

Another thought, in the ending scene of Origins, Samantha tells Richtofen that it's his turn next. Do you think this means that the story will go back to a linear, "this is what happens" sort of story, or do you think the quote is meaningless and there will always be a split time line? It just seems that if Richtofen gets his turn tomorrow, then he was never thwarted by Maxis, showing that the BO2 crew ultimately helped Richtofen?

She says that "three heroes were sent" because the fourth hero, Richtofen, was already present.

No, Eddy is a personification of what Richtofen meant to Samantha, but they are not the same person. Richtofen and Samantha were never the same age. Eddy and Samantha were. There is a relation between the characters but distinct differences. There's two Eddy's just like there are two Fluffy's and two Tank's, Nikolai's, etc. In the new timeline, everything but Samantha and Maxis are recreations. It is a new timeline.

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Apologies MMX. I did not mean to take the discussion in the direction it went, and my comment regarding PTG was not meant as a dig at the thread or an attempt at derailing it.

Regarding PTG... you are both right. I watched a few of their older videos last night just to test out how well they did with their homework and both you and Mega were spot on. Mega in particular.

They DID fail to get a LOT of info on the N4 maps. A few things, but not enough to make it seem like he/them had actually seen the maps. Yeah, they nailed MotD, but I am shocked at how much they got wrong with Origins.

Either way, it was enough to convince me to be more open minded at where zombies will go now. I failed to take enough of the stuff in Origins in, but that was mainly down to my disdain for the map and the direction the storyline took. Even if it IS real, it seems like a bizarre path to go on and the statues showing the 4 warriors from the dark ages also seemed a bit ridiculous.

Taking the story from a modern and somewhat realistic scenario to an Evil Dead 2 esque comedy situation was just a real off putter for me, and then the addition of giant robots and a steam punk environment just felt unrealistic and very unbelievable.

As convinced as I am that the sequence is confirmation that it is all a game, the only person in the entire community who is even remotely close to convincing me otherwise is you. I know others are putting forward evidence that there is more, I still have no passion to believe it but your timeline video actually makes perfect sense and it is that one video that makes me believe there is a chance the sequence is NOT what we think it is.

Anyway, apologies again. :)

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WOW! u should write a book lol seriously

havent had chance to read alll of it yet, but i just read all the origins part & really explained alot so thank u :)

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Well said, DeathBringer, even if I disagree. On your last note, are you saying that you want me to make a case right now about why I think it isn't just a game?

iRoNICz, thank you very much. I appreciate it. :)

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Well said, DeathBringer, even if I disagree.

I don't expect everyone to feel the same way as me about the path the storyline took anyway, so that's cool man.

I just feel the Origins storyline made no sense when compared to either of the Buried endings. All the inconsistencies in the storyline can be written off easily if it IS all supposed to be a child's game.

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I guess that makes sense they are sent, still strikes me as odd though. Out of questions for now, except I always wanted to know, whats up with your avatar? And the space man face before it? :lol:

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I guess that makes sense they are sent, still strikes me as odd though. Out of questions for now, except I always wanted to know, whats up with your avatar? And the space man face before it? :lol:

Sorry for the Off Topic post, but it has a nice story behind the one he has now.

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Would like to hear it, there really isn't much to touch on anymore, the OP is so tightly made there really isn't any room to add anything that I can think of...except to ask maybe what questions MMX would have regarding the story, he so often defending his posts I never really thought to see what he thought was still missing or anything that doesn't seem to fit right. Guess I could have just asked in a Pm rather than going off topic :?

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Sorry but it's clearly a game. Everything about the hotch-potch construction of the story, taking liberally from all of the classic "pulp" genres to come up with a Frankenstein story, is PRECISELY what kids do. They make up rules on the spot, and they make storyline-shattering changes willy-nilly with no consideration for consistent plotline. The whole Zombies storylone portrays this perfectly.

I agree with you 100%.

Why Treyarch did this - add that 'final' cutscene - is the topic that I've been considering deeply lately.

Unfortunately, I can only assume, and I don't expect anyone to agree with my assumptions and I don't intend to hinder progress of MMX's project whatsoever. Personally, I think this is a wonderful use of your talents MMX, and applaud you for your dedication and efforts.

Origins is out of place. If you've ever taken an IQ test before or played certain games, there's certain ones that ask you to spot 'what doesn't belong', for example: pictured together are an apple, a banana, an orange, a potato, and a watermelon. Obviously the potato doesn't belong because it's the only vegetable. Apply the same principle to the BO:2 maps and Origins is the potato.

Why?

My theory on that is that something happened on the legal backend between Activision and Treyarch. I think Treyarch had plans to release more titles and perhaps something stopped that from ocurring. The business world can be a messy political minefield and video games are definitely a part of the business world, especially now.

Why else would we get a peak of the N4's backstory one map prior to Origins? Where the hell was that storyline going?

Basically, I think Origins was in the works for a later game after more storyline had been fleshed out, but Treyarch decided to "pull the cord" early because maybe this was the last chance they'd have to please fans. What better way than give them the O4?

Although...what would this do to the storyline? Shatter it, unless...

They added in a cutscene and dubbed in a Samantha voice last minute to quasi wrap the story.

To me, that's all this was. Treyarch was chastised in some form and scrambled to please fans and also wrap the storyline. Maybe there will be more to come for our story, maybe not. As it stands now, I am let down because there could have been so much more, but I respect how they did this and actually marvel at the quick choice.

...Of course, this is only speculation and the only evidence I have comes from the fact that I can't connect the dots any other way.

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Eternal, you know that comparison using the fruits and vegetables?

Well I could just as easily say the watermelon is different for being bigger.

Just saying, people's perspectives are different. Me, I more obviously see when stuff is different physically, not internally.

You could be right. Maybe internally, Treyarch was forced to cut the cord. But physically, they showed that they still wanted to please their fans, or maybe just amaze them. A farewell bang.

And they brought. If they die, they surely will be remembered as the people that made giant robots appear in WWI.

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Eternal, you know that comparison using the fruits and vegetables?

Well I could just as easily say the watermelon is different for being bigger.

Just saying, people's perspectives are different. Me, I more obviously see when stuff is different physically, not internally.

You could be right. Maybe internally, Treyarch was forced to cut the cord. But physically, they showed that they still wanted to please their fans, or maybe just amaze them. A farewell bang.

And they brought. If they die, they surely will be remembered as the people that made giant robots appear in WWI.

...Or the banana because it's not roundish. :lol:

Honestly, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'm uneasy about the presence of Origins and the seemingly sudden shift in story, but ultimately I'm satisfied the way it stands. This is why Treyarch gets my money and Infinity Ward doesn't.

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The ending by itself makes absolutely no sense, one could easily argue. My dad has a plan? What in the world does that mean? Well it is all a game, right? So... that means it doesn't matter right? But you just said it was a game, so the ending cutscene is real. So the phrase in the ending cutscene must be taken seriously, for it is in the real world and it matters. So what does it mean? "I don't know" is the most common answer, and that is where debate ends and emotions sprout.

I guess that makes sense they are sent, still strikes me as odd though. Out of questions for now, except I always wanted to know, whats up with your avatar? And the space man face before it? :lol:

I only use characters of my own creation for my avatar. I call this one Larva.

Would like to hear it, there really isn't much to touch on anymore, the OP is so tightly made there really isn't any room to add anything that I can think of...except to ask maybe what questions MMX would have regarding the story, he so often defending his posts I never really thought to see what he thought was still missing or anything that doesn't seem to fit right. Guess I could have just asked in a Pm rather than going off topic :?

It's fine. I usually get the same exact subjects repeated a dozen times as opposed to new ones introduced. And some people are too busy vehemently rejecting anything I say or being too intimidated by my large posts to ask any questions.

@Eternal: I agree that Origins is meant to close the story, but just the arc. Origins essentially wipes the slate clean and allows Treyarch to begin another season without having too much storyline baggage. In the new story, you can keep up with a separate chain of events. You can learn what happened in the earlier games, but you won't be REQUIRED to learn it.

By the way, lol Delta.

And just a general statement. I really do not care about feelings in regard to this story. People have statements that they don't like the story for Origins. The story couldn't care less. I try to be objective in my storyline, putting everything I possibly can together for a story, regardless of whether it is liked or not. I doubt people cared for the Chinese radio in Kino, but it is there. So it is there.

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Public announcement:

For those of you who don't know, I take everything as canon. Yes, that's right. Everything. We then evaluate whether it can hold as such. If it is self-contradicting, then we discard it as non-canon.

1. Origins I maintain that Origins can be explained through the use of cycles. Since cycles are mentioned in other maps, I remain convinced that Origins is a canon map.

2. Dead Ops Arcade I do not believe Dead Ops Arcade to be canon. The game makes blatant video game references, acknowledging itself to be a video game, beyond breaking the fourth wall. No matter how you interpret it, it doesn't make sense. Is it the detailing of events that happened? Then what are the video game references for? Is it a video game sitting at the CIA? Then how does it exist at that time? Dead Ops is just a mish-mash of nonsense that doesn't even try to have a story, beyond the Cosmic Silverback.

3. Black Ops DS I do not believe Black Ops DS to be canon. You play as Michael Shaw and Yuri Raslov, who never meet at any of the places you play in. Nowhere in their stories is it explained how they fight zombies at all. The zombies had red eyes long before the Ancient Evil was introduced, and at a time when Samantha would've been in control.

4. The Wii Version I believe the Wii version to be canon, because it was quite similar to the other versions. The only major difference being the addition of a radio that didn't impact the overall story all that much. Still, it is a welcome addition to the story, foreshadowing the events of Die Rise to come.

5. The iPhone series I do not believe the iPhone series to be canon. You kill Richtofen in the series, which simply does not happen in the rest of it. Richtofen doesn't die. Not to mention, his zombification happens while he is still breathing, which should not be the case in our universe.

6. This

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=37567

This just came out. I WILL be including a short blurb about this in the storyline. That is, unless a convincing reason can be proposed why it should not. Die Rise gave us a glimpse of China, but there could have been a lot more there. We already know that there were robots, so robot zombies is not all that far fetched.

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Ah, I remember "beta" listening to this story for you, MMX.

Very excited for the video release, hope you manage to release it by the time I believe you told me, correct me if I'm making stuff up.

Also,

brains.

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