A Zombie Trilogy v.III [NOW IN VIDEO]

[MysteryMachineX]

Thank you. I saw that. Honestly I'm kinda holding off on updating with Gorod Krovi stuff. If you check the doc, I had a whole big theory about the House and the Shadowman, and well, it turned out to be Monty. I'm gonna have to have some heavy editing there, but I figure I'll wait for the next DLC.

 

But as for that particular cipher, it is interesting. It suggests that the Apothicon creatures were once not so alien. But in the Aether they became horrendous. But we do know that the Apothicon creatures assimilate realms, like in Shadows of Evil, so I do still think they have their own conglomerated "homeland" realm. But knowing they can travel through the Aether is significant. Oh here's a chart I made a while back that might be relevant:

 

[Monopoly Mac]

Yeah this map just threw a bunch more questions at us, that I don't even think they're going to answer. 

[Monopoly Mac]

Kronorium Excerpt 349561223: The Summoning Key is one of the oldest artifacts in all creation. It was used by the first one to mix all the dimensions with life, giving each one its unique balance. Under certain circumstances, it has the ability to form bridges between dimensions allowing the transfer of life forces back and forth. It resides in the 63rd dimensions of creation.

 

So this cipher was just recently solved. So there really is just one summoning key. 

[MysteryMachineX]

But how is that possible? It has Apothicon symbols on it. And yet the Summoning Key is older than the Apothicons?

[Monopoly Mac]

Honestly, I don't know. 

[WaterKH]

 

2 hours ago, MysteryMachineX said:

But how is that possible? It has Apothicon symbols on it. And yet the Summoning Key is older than the Apothicons?

Apothicons and Keepers are one and the same. Evidence: 

 

IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WERE ONLY THE
KEEPERS. BUT THEN CORRUPTION OF THE DARK

AETHER LEACHED ITS WAY INTO THE REALM

AND TWISTED THE MINDS OF SOME OF THE KEEPERS.

THESE KEEPERS TURNED TO SHADOWS

OF THEIR FORMER SELVES AND EVENTUALLY

BECAME THE APOTHICONS

 

 

[NaBrZHunter]

27 minutes ago, WaterKH said:

 

Apothicons and Keepers are one and the same. Evidence: 

 

IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WERE ONLY THE
KEEPERS. BUT THEN CORRUPTION OF THE DARK

AETHER LEACHED ITS WAY INTO THE REALM

AND TWISTED THE MINDS OF SOME OF THE KEEPERS.

THESE KEEPERS TURNED TO SHADOWS

OF THEIR FORMER SELVES AND EVENTUALLY

BECAME THE APOTHICONS

 

 

Thus are the Keepers and their offshoot, the Apothicons across all universes, all times, creators of the MPD, thus are the Vril Ya and ultimately, the respective guardians and antagonists of the dimensions. Alleluia, alleluia, amen. 

[Monopoly Mac]

I'm assuming the problem here is that the two races have separate languages and the Summoning Key has Apothicon on it. I think this could be reconciled if you say that the Keepers adopted another language after the Apothicons were banished.

[MysteryMachineX]

A lot of the information gleaned from the ciphers changes things. It seems the Apothicon language must've been the original Keeper language. But the Apothicon creatures use it now, and the Keepers have their own. All this stuff about changing forms tells us that these creatures evolve.

 

This raises the question that maybe we haven't been dealing with simple alt universe monsters but rather an evolving one, one that branches.

 

Proto-Beings > Proto-Keepers > Ancient Keepers > Modern Keepers > Corrupted Keeper(s)

| . . . . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . . . . . |diverge

| . . . . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . . . . . '-> Ancient Zombies

| . . . . . . . . . . |diverge

| . . . . . . . . . . '-> Proto-Vril-Ya > Vril-Ya

| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |diverge

| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . '-> Humans > Zombies

|

|diverge

'-> Proto-Apothicons > Modern Apothicons

 

This would change the multiverse structure to instead of being separate realms, to be a "fracturing universe", branching timelines all originating from one original, created by a God. This would explain why some ancient things have similarities, like seeing the four Heroes in the distant past across realms, in Shadows of Evil, Der Eisendrache, and Origins. The biggest hole however is that the old timeline and the new timeline didn't simply diverge in 1945. There are many differences that run deeper, much earlier, yet they still have similarities. It's remarkably like parallel universes, not timelines.

 

I'm still going to hold off on updating the script for now until we have a better understanding.

[Monopoly Mac]

There seems to be a contradiction or perhaps something isn't cleared up very well in the map. The cipher says that the keepers infused the dimensions with life and another one says that they are wards of all the universes. But Dr. Monty also says that the universe has been fragmented into many mini-universes. 

 

So now I'm confused as to where they're going with this. Is it one universe that has been fragmented into many? Or did it start off as many universes? 

[WaterKH]

On 7/18/2016 at 3:07 PM, Monopoly Mac said:

There seems to be a contradiction or perhaps something isn't cleared up very well in the map. The cipher says that the keepers infused the dimensions with life and another one says that they are wards of all the universes. But Dr. Monty also says that the universe has been fragmented into many mini-universes. 

 

So now I'm confused as to where they're going with this. Is it one universe that has been fragmented into many? Or did it start off as many universes? 

 

I believe they are meaning dimensions to be synonymous with universes, thus I assume it started off as many universes/ dimensions and now it has been shattered either within one universe/ dimension, or across all of the universes/ dimensions. 

[Tac]

On 7/18/2016 at 1:07 PM, Monopoly Mac said:

There seems to be a contradiction or perhaps something isn't cleared up very well in the map. The cipher says that the keepers infused the dimensions with life and another one says that they are wards of all the universes. But Dr. Monty also says that the universe has been fragmented into many mini-universes. 

 

So now I'm confused as to where they're going with this. Is it one universe that has been fragmented into many? Or did it start off as many universes? 

 

I'd say there were the original 63+ that then got shattered. I know we've discussed this since your post Mac, but to say it here, it no longer appears that there was an "original" universe.

[Monopoly Mac]

Yup. No original universe.

[MysteryMachineX]

I forgot where I saw it, but I made a post about a week ago about it being weird that Sophia is a robot now. And someone replied that Richtofen had a quote saying the same thing. (Was it you, Mac?) Has anyone heard this quote? I'd just like some confirmation. And to follow up on the whole Sophia being a robot thing, I believe Sophia was almost certainly human in the original timeline. I went through my Datenbediensteter notes again, and so much about Sophia assumes she's human. Maxis talks about her and Samantha in the same sentences in the same way. Maxis says he has feelings for her. He worries about Richtofen watching Samantha and Sophia. He even calls her "an attractive specimen". Also, people don't talk about this much, but Maxis at Der Riese was most likely a lot younger than the Maxis we see in Origins. (I mean, he had a six year old daughter and had fallen for the secretary.) It didn't surprise me when we heard the radio where he spoke of himself getting younger (although exactly what this means has yet to be fully determined).

 

I think we can also disregard the Apothicon language on the Keeper Summoning Key artifact. Since it was found in a level crawling with Apothicons, you could just say they corrupted it in some way to add the language on there.

 

Also, my thoughts on all the revelations about the universe. Here's my current understanding of it.

 

In the beginning, Doctor Monty created the universes, one after another, until there were 63 of them.

Bored, he created a multi-purpose tool called the Summoning Key.

Monty used the Key to imbue life into all of the 63 universes, and it was good.

The dominant life form in the 63rd universe was the Keeper.

Many Keepers became corrupted by the Aether and waged a civil war.

During this Great War, the corrupted Keepers evolved into the Apothicons.

The Apothicons were cast out into the Aether to reside, with a desire to return and consume.

The Keepers ascended to become the wards of all universes.

After the Keepers relinquished their claim on 63, humans came to be.

Humans brought about their own destruction, thanks to a few of them.

After their planet rotted, one of them shattered the barriers between dimensions.

63 shattered into a million realms, with histories sometimes slightly different.

The fracture invited the Apothicons, opportunistic to consume 63 one realm at a time.

The Keepers fought off the Apothicons again and again, with varying results.

And then a German said let there be light, and there was light.

 

Also, I still propose that the Ancients in Origins and the Vril-Ya from the original timeline are separate but related entities to the Keepers. I believe that either they speciated at the same time the Apothicons did. (I mean every Great War has its neutral parties, no?) OR that when the realms were shattered and created alternate histories, the Keepers faced the same fate as World War II, and therefore we have some Keeper-like creatures in some of the alternate realms that happened a little differently.

 

And, I believe now that the Ancient Evil in Mob of the Dead was an Apothicon. It's just, Apothicons are creatures that reside in the Aether, and this thing resided in the Aether. And both were quite evil. Unless our new god figure specifically mentions there being a devil, I think it's just another Apothicon that happens to have devilish attributes and behaviors. It could be an Apothicon rivaling the power of the Shadowman.

[RadZakpak]

Do we know for sure Sophia never died in the Der Riese massacre? And perhaps after the massacre in Gorod Krovi's universe, Maxis was still around and created the computer system based on her? Her dying is all I can think to rationalize it.

[NaBrZHunter]

1 hour ago, RadZakpak said:

Do we know for sure Sophia never died in the Der Riese massacre? And perhaps after the massacre in Gorod Krovi's universe, Maxis was still around and created the computer system based on her? Her dying is all I can think to rationalize it.

I believe it's safe to say that Maxis was already gone by the time the massacre occurred. Am I overlooking something?

[MysteryMachineX]

The massacre followed the teleporter accident in Der Riese. In the original timeline, this is most likely where Sophia died. In the Giant, we fight zombies immediately following the massacre. But yeah in both versions Maxis was already gone. I think it just might be as simple as "Oh, well Sophia's a robot in this universe."

[RadZakpak]

1 minute ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I believe it's safe to say that Maxis was already gone by the time the massacre occurred. Am I overlooking something?

Do we know exactly when the massacre occurred or when Richtofen got rid of Maxis and Sam? I always thought the massacre came before, hence the empty halls we see in The Giant cutscene. We know that Richtofen teleporting Maxis happened sometime after October 1st, 1945, way after the war was over for Germany. Right after the war would be the prime time for a standoff between Soviets and Americans at Der Riese.

 

Also, for all we know, in the timeline leading up to Gorod Krovi Maxis may not have been decieved until way later or even not at all.

[MysteryMachineX]

The time for the massacre is a little fuzzy, but nothing too ridiculous. This is mostly in part because the Der Riese massacre is a worldly term. In fact, the CIA were the ones who first called it that. On October 1st, Richtofen said he would take care of Maxis soon. He then sent a message to Groph saying to proceed with Operation Shield and Security Protocol 935. We never have known precisely what these are, but we are led to believe that it is what brought Der Riese to ruin, as we then have Der Riese Radio 7, with the experiment with Fluffy, when Richtofen gets rid of Maxis and his daughter. Richtofen is then able to get out of the there with the test subjects alive. Radio 8 details the ruin of Der Riese. Also, yes, WWII was over already, but Group 935 was still standing, even if barely so. So in total, this is the order of events:

 

World War II Ends

October 1st

Richtofen speaks with Groph

Security Protocol 935

Operation Shield

Zombies are unleashed

Der Riese test number 6

Maxises gone

Richtofen escapes with subjects

Zombies spread through whole facility

Radio 8 all scientists dead

The search for the Maxises

Subjects return to Der Riese in January

Between 1946-1948 the standoff occurs

 

But in the new timeline, things happened differently

 

World War II Doesn't End

October 1st

Richtofen speaks with Groph

Security Protocol 935

Operation Shield

Zombies are unleashed

Der Riese test number 6

Maxis gone

Heroes show up and talk to Richtofen

Zombies spread through whole facility

Heroes fight zombies right then

All scientists dead

Heroes fight zombies right then

Heroes go to Der Eisendrache two weeks later

 

So that's how the massacre went down. It just so happens that the dead people got back up.

 

EDIT: It should also be worth mentioning that this new timeline has World War II going about in a muuuuuch different manner i.e. dragons and robots. By the time of Gorod Krovi, it is sometime after December 1945, perhaps even spring 1946, long after World War II as we know it ended in the real timeline. Nikolai specifically has a quote where he says that he and Dempsey have been allies in all three world wars. This leads me to believe that this isn't a continuation of World War II but a renewal of it. World War III.

 

Furthermore, World War III is essentially a war lead by Group 935. The papers and ciphers we've seen paint an image of Group 935 directly advising the German government (that conspicuously has no Nazi imagery). In fact, by the time of Gorod Krovi, there are propaganda posters by 935! And their logo has changed yet again! It is blood red now, much like the Nazis and Soviets. (Bad guys are always red >_>). Sure Division 9 is helping them, but they were pretty small and by the time of Gorod Krovi (post Zetsubou) Divison 9 likely no longer functions. World War III is a 935-backed Germany versus the World.

 

You might ask how do World War II end? I'd suggest stalemate. Germany was going to lose like it was supposed to, but 935's prowess managed to allow them to bounce back for World War III, much like how Germany had bounced back from World War I to World War II. This would mean that World War III began shortly before the Giant, but antagonized by Groph. Who's leading Group 935 by the time of Gorod Krovi? Yena? SOPHIA? Just remnants? No names?

[Tac]

6 hours ago, MysteryMachineX said:

In the beginning, Doctor Monty created the universes, one after another, until there were 63 of them.

Bored, he created a multi-purpose tool called the Summoning Key.

Monty used the Key to imbue life into all of the 63 universes, and it was good.

The dominant life form in the 63rd universe was the Keeper.

Many Keepers became corrupted by the Aether and waged a civil war.

During this Great War, the corrupted Keepers evolved into the Apothicons.

The Apothicons were cast out into the Aether to reside, with a desire to return and consume.

The Keepers ascended to become the wards of all universes.

After the Keepers relinquished their claim on 63, humans came to be.

Humans brought about their own destruction, thanks to a few of them.

After their planet rotted, one of them shattered the barriers between dimensions.

63 shattered into a million realms, with histories sometimes slightly different.

The fracture invited the Apothicons, opportunistic to consume 63 one realm at a time.

The Keepers fought off the Apothicons again and again, with varying results.

And then a German said let there be light, and there was light.

 

I wouldn't quite say he created the Summoning Key because he was bored.

 

Also, the corrupted Keepers didn't turn to Apothicons during the Great War, but after, because they were cast into dark Aether for eons and that's what corrupted them.

[MysteryMachineX]

Fair enough corrections. Thank you.

 

Btw, Tac, I recently realized I made no mention of Group 601 in the script. I think I should add it in somewhere, even if it just a short mention. I figured you were the guy to ask about it. What do we know of it?

 

Here's something akin to what I was thinking of putting:

 

The Reichstag High Command acquired several Wunderwaffe programs.... etc etc... The signed a contract with Group 935 and another with Group 601. Group 601 was a secretive program interested in nuclear technology and radio transmissions.

 

(Given by the nuclear explosion and radio antennas you see in that one 601 image.) What do you think?

[Monopoly Mac]

I think it's fair to put that in considering all we know about 601. 

[MysteryMachineX]

Thanks Monopoly Mac.

 

I've been thinking on the big picture of zombies for a bit now. After hearing all of Monty's quotes, here are my thoughts.

 

I believe the original timeline was the ORIGINAL timeline. It was the only one. More or less. At the end of Buried, Maxis's actions shattered the barriers between worlds, and this action was the hammer that splintered the universe into millions of alternate universes. Then the events of Origins happens in one alternate universe, and by the end they create the portal to cross between universes. Monty holds them partially responsible for the state of things, because now the universes are bleeding together. These cracks are what the Apothicons are utilizing to infiltrate the realms. I believe the plan will involve collapsing the multiple versions of the four heroes down into singular states, and it will magically coerce the universes into doing the same. I'm sure the blood and Monty and some form of betrayal will also take place, but I think it is mostly fluff to keep things interesting. I also think the Samantha in Origins was actually the Samantha from the Giant after the teleporter accident, but I am unsure if she truly was in Agartha or just this House place. From the House, Maxis can talk across dimensions, so it would make sense that Samantha could too. In fact, I could just imagine Samantha was playing Origins with Eddy, using Maxis's interdimensional walky-talky.

[Monopoly Mac]

I've had the same idea about Buried. I'd like it to be true so the Maxis's actions in that map could actually be relevant. 

 

The thing about Samantha in Origins is that I don't think that's actually Samantha. She sounds devious and extremely threatening for a little girl. One of her quotes is "You don’t even remember how long this has been going on. How long we have been trapped here…" and overall I actually think we might have freed the apothicons. 

[Monopoly Mac]

So the Aether is Agartha. That changes things up.