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Between Heaven and Earth

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anonymous    323

After browsing through the Deep Thought section of this site, I have to admit that some things are really...deep. Philosophical. Topics that have as subject the meaning of life, or the question if there exist evil humans. There was only one well-known question I missed: Do you believe in God? A bit a direct question perhaps, but this question goes along with some others: Do you believe in Afterlife? And in ghosts? 

 

I self am not sure what to believe. I'm raised semi-christian, but not Christian in the way I go to church, read the Bible and talk about God. I'm raised Christian by my parent's with the intention of trying to care more about fellow humans, charity and solidarity (While saying that, it does not mean they succeed, but also not the opposite. So don't get the imagine of me that I am a very kind and pious person, they just tried me to raise like that). So yeah, I'm raised partly Christian, but not really the I-believe-in-God way. Although I don't say I completely deny the existence of God. I'm something between Christian and an atheist.

 

Remember, all the following stuff is just my opinion and thoughts. 

 

I think the origins of religion is suffering. When someone is suffering (hunger, cold, the death of a friend/family) it always feels good to have someone/something to count on. An invisible friend. The idea of your dead friend being in a better place now. The idea that someone is watching over your shoulders, and won't leave you alone. I personally think that that's the way how religions started. Let me give you an example: Anyone who has seen the movie "Saving  A private Ryan"? In the beginning, a soldier on Omaha beach is shot. He lays crying on the ground, his guts hanging out of his belly. A moment later, another soldier appears. He tells the suffering man, who will die anyway, that soon his pain will be over and he will go to Heaven. To a better place. A paradise. Move yourself into the mind of that dying man. Do you see what I mean? You will feel much better and comfortable if you know soon your pain will be changed into paradise. The biggest kind of consolation ever.

 

That brings me to afterlife. Do I believe in that? No you might think, but oddly enough, in fact I do. My ratio tells no: Scientific, an afterlife is never proven to exist. Still, something deep within me tells me otherwise. Maybe it's my fear for the inconvenient truth that will come on day to every person on Earth, death. But we could also think of it the other way around: Science has also never proved that Afterlife does NOT exist. A fact that gives me much more comfort. Talking about proof: the white tunnel of light. Are you familiar with it? For those who are not: it is believed that once you die, you will enter a tunnel of light to access paradise. The following stuff I tell is REAL. The stories are true. There is proof for the Tunnel to Light: People who have a dead experience (for example those who's heart has stopped and who's blood supply has stopped, and who are basically dead. A very rare experience) who are brought back to life by resuscitation talk about this Tunnel of light. Each one of them tells that they found their selves in a dark tunnel, and that they saw white light at the end. They also all said that it felt great, and at the first moment after resuscitation, when they were alive again, they felt a great sadness and wanted to go back to the tunnel. Some of them even cried something like: "Stop! Take me back!". Of course, eventually they were happy to live again and see their friend and family, but the very first seconds of their "second life", they wanted to be dead. To return to the great feeling they felt. To return to paradise. Afterlife? 

 

More proof for the Tunnel: Almost every (ancient) religion, and people from all over the world in all times in our history talk about the Tunnel. In all continents. And that while all continents are deprecated from each other by mountains or seas. Pretty coincidental, isn't it? But it gives me hope.

 

I do not know what to think of ghosts. I had a kid in my class on the elementary school who once told me private she had seen ghosts. 3 times. And actually, she sounded pretty convincing. Yet, in the case of ghosts, my ratio/logical mind wins of my human spirit: the majority of my consiousness thinks ghosts do not exist.

 

The main conclusion of my story? My final though? I think it does not matter if there is a god, an afterlife or ghosts. Religion exists because it provides hope to those who need it. When you are almost dying, it is very calming that someone says that you go to a better place. It does not matter if he really goes to a better place or if he finds rest and vanishes completely. It is not about that certain person after he dies. It is about his idea before he dies and the idea for those who he leaves behind, mourning for his dead.

 

You can believe whatever you want. And maybe you believe the real religion/non-religion? The truth. But in the end, it does not matter. 

 

Now in addition to this topics: spiritual exercises have proven to have a positive effect on humans. 

 

When 9/11 happened, a the human mind could be seen on computers.

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/02/911-foreknowledge-caught-on-computers.html

The human mind is measurable (if I may believe National Geographic). It is more than a consiousness within a simple organ called a brain.

 

How could someone who believes in nothing spiritual explain this? There's gotta be something between Heaven and Earth. Between life and death. But it does not matter what.

 

So far, my deep thought. Wonder what your opinions concerning this subject are.

 

 

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andydabeast    39

I have avoided joining discussions about life purpose and such because that is not what I come to this forum to discuss, but I think this thread is an appropriate place to offer my perspective. This post for me is opinion and personal belief. 

 

I am a Christian. My life purpose is to follow the Bible and spread God's love to the world.

After death if someone has recognized that Jesus died for their sins and had surrendered themselves to Him then they go to Heaven and if not then they will be in Hell. Only God knows someone's heart, and what they truly believed at the moment of their passing is a mystery (although we can speculate).

Accepting Jesus' sacrifice is the only way to heaven and God in His trinity is the source of all truth. Everyone is naturally "bad" and we are all sinners in need of Jesus' sacrifice in order to be worthy of Heaven. 

There are lots of tangents and specifics to debate about but really that is the basis for Christianity and what I believe. That is where I derive my purpose. 

God is alive and working, and He has proven Himself multiple times to me personally. I looked for Him and found Him, and now I would die for Him. 

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InfestLithium    496

Do you believe in God?

 

Yes.

 

Although I come across as very agnostic, I believe in a higher power (was born Roman Catholic, then turned to Christianity and stepped away for a while). While I'm uncertain who is in power or if any of the miracles of a Jesus Christ are 100% believable, I personally agree with a good chunk of it.

 

I don't exactly follow a God creating Earth or any other extraterrestrial object in the universe, but I do believe abstract concepts (emotions, free will, etc) are something that originated from God. And the coming of Jesus Christ and his tales? 50% plausible, but without a doubt was a real person.

 

A good person will do good. The idea of a sin, in my eyes, is a scare tactic for society to keep itself in check. Because nothing is more powerful as an influencing agent that fear. And if you fear the consequence of being a sinner (i.e. going to hell and burning for all of time), chances are you're going to wanna sin less than usual and be mindful of what others are doing. At the same time, every religion follows the Golden Rule - do good unto others as you would have to yourself. Shouldn't be hard to be a decent human being, even if people are different than you in several ways.

 

But hey - if someone puts their entire lives and faith into any God and religion itself, and it makes that person happy BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY does not infringe on the sanctity and well-being of others, then I'd all for it. I've met devout, good followers of faith like our men @NaBrZHunter and @FatedTitan that have never outed or pushed beliefs onto others.

 

Do you believe in an Afterlife?

 

I believe in something, but unsure what. As I get older, I begin to question the possibility of just nothingness. Many don't like the idea of just disappearing, but it's definitely on the table. I am a firm believer of reincarnation on a slight degree - which means our souls live infinitely but in the bodies of others. When we arrive at certain scenarios that we've come across before, we experience deja vu. I used to believe that it was because of a dream I had years back, but it's becoming more common the older I get. Maybe I'm just delusional.

 

Do you believe in ghosts?

 

Absolutely. Personally have seen a few in my lifetime, including supernatural experiences that have scarred me to this day. But it's not your ordinary "woOOOoooOOOooo I died and have nowhere else to go so I'm gonna haunt this bathroom forever" kind of experience. Like I was saying before, I don't have a direction towards an Afterlife; however, I believe in a middle-ground realm, where souls who refuse to disappear linger. I can't explain it - not a purgatory but not limbo either. It could be forces of darkness at work, or really anything. Hallucinations that allow you to see beyond the realm of the living, but we take it as fake visions. Whatever they are, there are definitely spirits within our midst.

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anonymous    323

@andydabeast Thank you for the honest answer. I have some questions for you, but if you prefer to keep your visions private, feel free to ignore them.

1) Will people who have murdered someone yet believe in the Bible still go to Heaven?

2) Will people who have lived a good life always go to Hell, or is there some kind of in-between between Heaven and Hell where they go to.

3) In the Islamic Koran, Jesus also appears, but as a normal profhet instead of the son of Allah (Arabic for "the One God"). Will Muslims go to Heaven for their believe in the existence of Jesus and God, or to Hell for not believing that Jesus was the son of God?

4) Do animals and plants, or any kind of living being besides humans, have some kind of life force or are they nothing more than living beings in a world created for humanity, and therefore inferior to the human race?

5) Is space created by God?

 

@InfestLithium You too thanks for answering. I agree with you on a few points. For instance, I do believe there was a guy named Jesus one time (it is said by as well Jesus's followers, the Romans, and the Jews), but I'm not sure if he really was a son of God and don't believe in most tales written in the Bible. Rather, I think most tales in the Bible are meant symbolic. And I too don't know what to think of Afterlife. Paradise? Reincarnation? Or nothingness perhaps? That latter might sound a bit scary, but think of it: Finding eternal peace, rest and oblivion. Some kind of Moksha. Wouldn't that be just as, or maybe more comfortable as a Heaven, in which your consiousness keeps existing?

 

About ghosts. Is it scary when you see them? How do they look like? Do they see you too or do they just moving consiousnessless around you? Like I said, I've heard more stories of people who've seen ghosts, and like you they all speak very convincing. And I really believe you. But somehow, a part within me does not want/cannot believe it.

 

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Steelie    14

If I may give my vision on this:

 

Of course please note that this is MY opinion and trains of thought, and I don't mean to bash or offend people or get into heavy discussions. I just want to present another viewpoint!

I was raised in Protestantism, and later on I started doubting religion and we kinda stopped going to church (also because my parents were in a divorce, my dad still goes to church every sunday but I've always lived with my mother, so yeah). To me religions are just... stories that got passed on and blown out of proportion. People love exaggerating stories, always have. If one person back then could swim, then a few decades later he'd have been walking on water. Get what I mean? I don't mean to bash on religion at all, though. I think it's a good thing for people who need it, as long as they aren't too radical, you feel?

I don't believe that any god would want the beings they created to suffer. I do believe angels and demons exist, though. I just don't see them as really religious or from a religious viewpoint, but more as beings that kept everything in some kind of balance. And while I do think that demons are more "bad" and angels are more "good", I don't believe for a second that angels are all that pure and innocent, and that demons are all evil and merciless. I think both of them have good, as well as bad traits.

 

As for ghosts, I'm certain they exist. At times I could swear that there is someone standing behind me to my left, and when I turn around there's nothing there. This has even happened when it would be physically impossible for someone to stand behind me, as they'd be standing in a wall in that case. There has also been once when I was in bed listening to music and suddenly I spotted ?? something out of the corner of my eyes, and it jsut flew over me. After that the volume of my mp3 player started acting really weird, getting louder and softer without me doing anything, and I was terrified. 

I have also known and been friends with several persons who could see ghosts, and one of them has even been attacked by one and was stabbed in her back.

Luckily not anything physical, but according to her it might as well have been because it sure as hell felt like it was an actual knife. So yes, I do most certainly believe in ghosts. 

 

On my view of the afterlife or what happens to you when you die, I don't have a single clue. Of course there's the Tunnel theory and all, and I think it does hold some truth. I mean so many people have seen it, been through it. There must be some truth hidden in there. But I'm also skeptical. The human mind is extremely powerful, and can let us see, hear and feel things that are not there. I mean the presence I felt behind me might have been my mind playing tricks on me, I don't know that. But in the end I believe what I'll see my loved ones again who died before me and that we'll all be in another world, in a good world. I also think that when you die, truly die, that you'll get to know everything you ever questioned, from philosophical and existential stuff to "how big is the universe" and "Is my dog gonna be okay". Writing it down like this kinda makes me think again, to be honest. Am I believing in fairy tales? Again, no clue. But if I'd have to make a guess that'd be my guess. But until then, I guess I'll cross the bridge of afterlife and death when I get to it (haha yes sorry terrible pun).

 

I also believe that there are other supernatural creatures out there and/or deities that we don't know about. I don't know what is out there exactly (and I almost don't dare to guess), but especially in our oceans there must be something, we've discovered so little. I also believe there's life outside our solar system and all, but they probably can't travel to us or are so far away that they still see the dinosaurs walking around on our planet. Or they aren't interested, or they're in another space pocket and can't interact with us in any way. I have no idea. But we can't be the only ones.

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DaveLo07    172

Personally, I do not believe in any God/Deity or Heaven in a traditional biblical sense. I am fascinated by consciousness, and the thought of what happens to us when we die, but to me religious texts always felt more like a moral guide/compass than a doctrine to live my life by. I am open to the idea of life after death in some sense, but for me as much as the idea of there being a heaven would be comforting, whenever a family member or friend has died, I feel no connection to that person beyond my memories of them. I have very lucid dreams, and have had dreams about deceased family members that I would love to be able to attach to them trying to contact me after death, but when I wake I can easily deconstruct these dreams and am aware that it was created by my own consciousness and is just a projected memory of that person that I am constructing with my own mind.

 

The truth of the matter is though, whether your views are atheist, agnostic or religious, we are all just attaching ourselves to ideas that try to explain our existence better and bring us some comfort. I have never met a single human being who can tangibly explain what this life is, how we exist or why we exist and that to me isn't scary, it's fascinating and in that sense no matter what your beliefs, we are all in the same boat.

 

The creator paradox is also very interesting, and to me at least effects science and religion in the same way. If there is a creator, how did they come into existence? And if the universe started with the big bang, what sparked that to happen? Each answer will only lead to another question, and in that sense I wonder whether we will ever be able to truly understand or explain the nature of our existence.

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anonymous    323

@DaveLo07 I have nothing to say to that. What an answer....but you are breaking my mind as well.

 

@Steelie I definitely agree with you on that last part. In these modern times, we have discovered less than 5 percent of our oceans. Surely there is something extraordinary down there... 

 

I'm almost 100 percent sure that extraterrestrial life exists. I mean, look at the size of the cosmos. Like Monty said:

Quote

"The universe... is big. Really big. So try to imagine the biggest thing that you can, and then imagine you're waaaay off. It's a million, billion, trillion, eh... zillion? - times bigger than that. Actually, don't worry about the size, it's fucking huge. We'll just leave it at that."

It would be nearly impossible if Earth is the only planet having life. I mean, even some scientists have discovered planets being just as far of the sun as Earth, and having H2O on it. There's gotta be life on such places. The thing is, like you said, we will never get there. And aliens will never get to Earth. The distances are just too far. It is highly possible that there are more advanced civilizations than humans in the universe, yet even they have not succeed in visiting Earth (and no, I do not believe in alien cornfield circles and that kind of stuff). They would, indeed, limit their selves  a to see our past, possibly the dinosaurs :P. However there might be other life forms closer in the universe, simply missing the intelligence to built devices to visit Earth, and I hope one day mankind discovers such creatures. Even a single bacteria would be good to me.

 

Thinking about living extraterrestrials, every living thing will die one day, and so do they. Would that connect them with our afterlife (if we have one)? Our would our afterlife limit itself to humans/Earth? Odd to think about it.

 

Y'all ghost stories scare me man! The story of the knife seems a bit too absurd, but that what happened with you MP3 and such....you almost make me a believer too. Happily (or sadly perhaps), I do not have some kind of sixth sense, although I do have the feeling that someone is watching sometimes. It's weird now I think about it, that one can FEEL others' eyes burning in your back if someone's watching you. I do have that ability: And basically always when I have that feeling, someone is really watching me while I did not noticed him/her. But very sometimes when I have that feeling, I can see no one... 

 

Maybe ghosts just think I'm a boring girl and leave me alone :P. I wonder, how do you feel their presence. Like they are really on that location for you specific, or are they just wandering around randomly. If that latter is the case, perhaps it are some kind of reflections of the past. One late man's energy that's still present.

 

Fascinating talking

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Steelie    14
4 minutes ago, anonymous said:

Thinking about living extraterrestrials, every living thing will die one day, and so do they. Would that connect them with our afterlife (if we have one)? Our would our afterlife limit itself to humans/Earth? Odd to think about it.

Now that just blew my mind. It makes perfect sense, like what if the afterlife isn't just a human thing? What if it goes for all the living creatures that exist in the universe?
Speaking of universe, I also believe in the multiverse theory and that multiple timelines exist. Not necessarily that every choice you make ever opens up a new timeline, but if something was done different in your life that could've altered it in extreme ways.
 

As for your question, do you know the situations where you're doing something (with or without music on) and someone kinda sneaks up behind you, or walks in without you noticing? And then suddenly you do notice and you get a bit startled? It was like that. Other times it felt like someone was looking over my shoulder, it's that really specific feeling. I haven't had it anymore for years now though, but it used to scare me lots until I got the wonderful idea to give it a name, Donovan. It really helped making it a bit less scary.

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FatedTitan    70
15 hours ago, anonymous said:

@andydabeast Thank you for the honest answer. I have some questions for you, but if you prefer to keep your visions private, feel free to ignore them.

1) Will people who have murdered someone yet believe in the Bible still go to Heaven?

2) Will people who have lived a good life always go to Hell, or is there some kind of in-between between Heaven and Hell where they go to.

3) In the Islamic Koran, Jesus also appears, but as a normal profhet instead of the son of Allah (Arabic for "the One God"). Will Muslims go to Heaven for their believe in the existence of Jesus and God, or to Hell for not believing that Jesus was the son of God?

4) Do animals and plants, or any kind of living being besides humans, have some kind of life force or are they nothing more than living beings in a world created for humanity, and therefore inferior to the human race?

5) Is space created by God?

 

 

I'm not Andy, but I'm willing to answer for you.  He seems to fall in line with traditional line of Christian thought, so I'm sure my answers won't differ from his.

 

1.  Murder is a sin.  If someone kills a person, they have sinned.  But murder isn't an unforgiveable sin.  A person can still be forgiven if they repent and believe in Jesus.  It's not about having a knowledge of who God is.  Heck, demons believe in God.  It's about repentance and belief.  If someone has killed a person and repents, then yes, they can go to Heaven.

 

2.  Many say  that the Bible is just a book of moral teachings, which is does have many of those, but that's not the purpose of the Bible.  The purpose is to tell us about who God is.  How He created us in perfection, but we sinned, causing a separation between us and Him.  But because He loved us so much, He sent His Son Jesus to live a perfect life, die on the Cross and pay the penalty for our sin, then be raised to life.  The Bible teaches us that we are dead in our sins (Ephesians 2:1).  Dead things don't do anything.  They just lie there dead.  It takes a miracle to bring that dead thing to life and that is what Jesus did for us.  

 

Now why do I say that?  Because our works aren't what justify us.  Our greatest works are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) to God.  There's nothing we can do to justify ourselves, only God can save us from our sins.  So it's not about how good of a person you are, it's about if you have repented and believed in Jesus.  Now that's not to say Christians can live like Hell because they've got a 'Get out of Hell free' card.  In fact, Paul writes in Romans 6 "Are we to continue to sin that grace may abound?  By no means!"  We should seek to live good lives, but our 'good works' are the fruit of our salvation, not the root of it.  So good works aren't enough to get you into Heaven.  They never have been and never will be.  In fact, the Bible basically says we're all bad and can only be made good by our Savior.  We like to believe we aren't that bad, but the reality is we are.  We're a rebellious people against a loving God.  It's not a matter of how much you sin, it's the gravity of the One you have sinned against.

 

3.  Jesus isn't just a prophet.  It's always been strange to me how people, including most Muslims I meet, will tell me that Jesus was a good guy and had a lot of great teachings, but He wasn't the Messiah.  Well He claimed to be God fairly explicitly.  If He did that, we're left with three options:  (1) He's a liar, so he's not that good, (2) He's crazy, so definitely not someone worth listening to, or (3) He's telling the truth about Himself.  And if He's telling the truth about Himself, we have to submit to that truth or face the punishment spoken of.  Once again, it's not a matter of if they believe Jesus was a prophet or not or even that He really existed.  The demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they aren't redeemed.  It comes down to repenting of your sin and placing your trust in Him.  Muslims have not done that.  So no, they would not go to Heaven.

 

4.  I'd side with the latter rather than the former.  We see from the beginning in Genesis that God made man and woman in His image, something very distinct from the rest of creation.  While plants and animals, heck even rocks, can and do give glory to God, not in the same way that humans do.  We are different.  And that's a good thing!  It shows how much God loves and cares about us.  That doesn't mean He doesn't care about the animals or the environment.  He does.  We see in Matthew 10:29, "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?  Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father's care."  But check this out, in verse 31 Jesus goes on to say this, "So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."  While God does care for animals and plants, He cares for us so much more.  We're different than them.  We have dominion over them.  That doesn't mean we should exploit our environment or the animals around us, but we should take care of it and do good to it.  We are called to do that.

 

5.  Yes, from Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."  This is probably the most offensive verse in Scripture honestly, but it tells us exactly how things began.  God created the heavens, not referencing the location "Heaven", but the heavenly bodies, i.e. space, and the earth that we know and love.  God is the originator of it all.

 

 

 

I hope that helped.  Got pinged to this thread by @NaBrZHunter so wanted to check it out.  Glad to see some interest in this topic.

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andydabeast    39
15 hours ago, anonymous said:

@andydabeast Thank you for the honest answer. I have some questions for you, but if you prefer to keep your visions private, feel free to ignore them.

1) Will people who have murdered someone yet believe in the Bible still go to Heaven?

2) Will people who have lived a good life always go to Hell, or is there some kind of in-between between Heaven and Hell where they go to.

3) In the Islamic Koran, Jesus also appears, but as a normal profhet instead of the son of Allah (Arabic for "the One God"). Will Muslims go to Heaven for their believe in the existence of Jesus and God, or to Hell for not believing that Jesus was the son of God?

4) Do animals and plants, or any kind of living being besides humans, have some kind of life force or are they nothing more than living beings in a world created for humanity, and therefore inferior to the human race?

5) Is space created by God?

 

 

This is quite a open and non-toxic discussion so I am happy to answer them in my opinion.
 

1. Simple answer, in the Bible (John 3:16 and many other places) it says that if you accept Jesus and His sacrifice and live your life for Him in return, yes.
Complicated answer, I believe the root of this question is in what hakes someone bad enough to not deserve heaven. Murder? Mass Murder? Or simply the thought of murder? In the Bible (Matt 5:21) Jesus said that to think of murdering someone is murder in your heart. It is all a sin. Only one sin is required to be not fit for Heaven, which is why Jesus lived the sinless life and took all our punishment. 
2. The "good life" you speak of was explained above. Everyone has sinned (Romans 3:23) so nobody is truly good. That is why we all need Jesus to get to Heaven. As for an in between place, Some people like Catholics believe in a purgatory, which there is some Biblical evidence for, but from my research the evidence against it is too great so I do not believe in it. 

3. That is an interesting question. I don't have all the answers but this is what I think. Merely believing in the existence of Jesus is not enough. The Devil knows Jesus is real. I think there would have to be two fundamental things that anyone of any religion could believe and then go to Heaven. Jesus is the son of God and that He lived the perfect life and died for your sins. At the boiled down heart of the matter, that is all you need. 

4. It says in Genesis that we were made special, and that all other living things were created under us. I don't think that gives us liberty to abuse it like making species extinct, but I don't think we will see our dogs with us in heaven. Don't have a particular Bible reference for that besides the beginning of Genesis. 

5. He is omnipotent so I believe so. That and Time. 

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NaBrZHunter    488

Please don't be intimidated by the length. It's a sort of story-analogy, not an opinionated rambling. 

:tongue:

-Hunter

 

Do I believe in God or an afterlife?

 

Okay, so I am a father, and my wife and I have children, let's say I build them a playground in the backyard. Let's assume I'm an engineer, and it's hardly "just a playground," and more like a theme park.
I want my children to experience it, learn from their experiences playing together, learning social skills, the laws of physics, and reason and rational thinking. I want them to explore the playground, take it apart, put it back together, make new stuff from the parts I left for them to use, help each other build things...

Does this mean, however, that I want them to play on a playground for the rest of their lives?
No. I love them. They are blood of my blood, bone of my bone - beautiful, unique people for whom I desire a wonderful life, and who I want to get to know! And ultimately, I want to see them grow up and leave the playground behind, and come join me for a beer, a good talk about life, love, music, sports, Call of Duty - you name it. :wink: I want them to mature. 

 

On the other hand, because I love them, I will also NOT impose myself on them. I will let them come to me when they want to. When they realize who I am, that I created that awesome playground for them, and that I did it because I love them in the first place. But until they do so on their own...while I'll drop hints that I love them now and again (bring them a soda, some lunch, secretly add to the playground when they aren't watching so they have more to explore, and sometimes even catch them when they fall) I won't always keep them from experiencing real life. Jumping off a swing is fun, but it can hurt you. But you learn eventually what is and isn't safe. If they call and ask me for help, however, I promise, I'll be there. Doesn't mean I'll be okay with what they're doing - if they decide to do it anyway...I warned them. But if that's how they want to learn, then so be it. They are free to live and learn.

 

Now let's take that analogy out of the human box. I'm also the perfect image of love, selflessness, beauty, grace, patience, perfect joy, peace. 

When those children of mine come to me, they will partake in the experience of perfection beyond anything they can imagine. My knowledge and wisdom supersedes all comprehension. I am ENDLESSLY fascinating.
 

Sadly, however...they will never know this if they do not come to me.

In the meantime, a few of them on the playground do know me well. I call them my "called out ones," greek "ecclesia," aka, "church". They call themselves the "Catholic Church," because they are "universal" (all around the playground) and they want to obey what I have commanded them to do, live their lives in a way that reflects how good and awesome I am, and desire to lead the others to get to know me as well. I want them to be like me so others get an idea of what I am like. The things they do for love of me (their good works) are precious to me, and mean so much. I will reward them for these things. (Epistle of James chapter 2, Gospel According to Matthew 10:40-42, 12:37, 25:31-46.)
But I have spent time with them so that they can get to know me and come to love me like I love them. We call what I do "grace" and what they do in response to knowing me "faith."

And when they're grown and no longer of age to play on the playground, we'll head up to the house for a chat and a beer, and so I can help them to understand their experience on the playground fully. 

Hey, but the kids still on the playground are always welcome to come and ask them to ask me for things on their behalf. I know that, now that they are mature, they have an understanding and care for the well-being of the kids on the playground. If a kid from the playground asks me for something, and their grown-up sibling also vouches for them, I will listen to both requests and respond in accordance with what I think is best. This is called "prayer," and in two forms: to "pray" is an old English word meaning to "ask." They're always welcome to ask me directly for anything, but if they also want others to vouch for them, they may do so. We call that "prayer to the Saints" (the grown up kids).

Sometimes...most the time, actually, there are hardheaded kids. They want to be good and respect my wishes, but they just keeps failing to resist the temptations. So I have given some of the kids who are elder members of that "Catholic Church" the authority to grant these beloved hardheads assurance of my forgiveness (Matthew 16:13-20, 18:15-20, John 20:19-23) as long as they sincerely resolve to try to continue to obey afterwards. They may break that promise, because they are weak of will, but as long as they continue to confess sincerely and genuinely tries to break the habit and do kind and loving things for me and the other kids to make up for it  (we call this confession and penance - maybe he has anger issues, and keeps hitting and yelling at other kids), then when he's grown up, before he comes to the house, he may need to spend some time meditating on what he needs to change in order to come experience perfection with me. We call this purgatory.

 

So yes. I believe in God, my Father, my brother (Jesus), and my sanctifier (the Holy Spirit). I also know my brothers and sisters have gone before me, and pray for me, encouraging me to always try to honor my Father. My life experience has been undeniable...and I pray that each of you has a similar epiphany, 'cause it's the most real thing you'll ever know here on the playground. Feel free to message me or anything if you wanna talk about it some more...I'd be glad to see if we can't hash it out together. :)

 

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anonymous    323

I appreciate the answers, yet I do have some questions. You see, I have never talked to someone who was so devoted and religious, so I'm pretty curious to your view of certain things (like the questions I've asked earlier). Not sure if you prefer to keep it to private messages, @NaBrZHunter, or here in this thread. If it's in this thread, @andydabeast and @FatedTitan can supplement you in your comments.

 

@Steelie I could talk hours about such subjects. It would be an odd thought to believe we share the afterlife with life forms from beyond our Earth, yet it might be even more odd if our afterlife would be separated from theirs (if they have one. If we have one). Anyway, space, sci-fi, supernatural and uncharted and undiscovered things really fascinate me. I would, for instance, love it to do a tour through the wastelands of Siberia, Mongolia, Central Asia and West-China. If I think longer about it, the distances and time it'll cost, then nah. But just to think about it, and the things that may hide on such places, I'm very fund on that. Same goes for the oceans, rainforests, inner Earth, and of course: Space, and places far away from our Earth.

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andydabeast    39
19 hours ago, FatedTitan said:

 

I'm not Andy, but I'm willing to answer for you.  He seems to fall in line with traditional line of Christian thought, so I'm sure my answers won't differ from his.

Spoiler

 

1.  Murder is a sin.  If someone kills a person, they have sinned.  But murder isn't an unforgiveable sin.  A person can still be forgiven if they repent and believe in Jesus.  It's not about having a knowledge of who God is.  Heck, demons believe in God.  It's about repentance and belief.  If someone has killed a person and repents, then yes, they can go to Heaven.

 

2.  Many say  that the Bible is just a book of moral teachings, which is does have many of those, but that's not the purpose of the Bible.  The purpose is to tell us about who God is.  How He created us in perfection, but we sinned, causing a separation between us and Him.  But because He loved us so much, He sent His Son Jesus to live a perfect life, die on the Cross and pay the penalty for our sin, then be raised to life.  The Bible teaches us that we are dead in our sins (Ephesians 2:1).  Dead things don't do anything.  They just lie there dead.  It takes a miracle to bring that dead thing to life and that is what Jesus did for us.  

 

Now why do I say that?  Because our works aren't what justify us.  Our greatest works are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) to God.  There's nothing we can do to justify ourselves, only God can save us from our sins.  So it's not about how good of a person you are, it's about if you have repented and believed in Jesus.  Now that's not to say Christians can live like Hell because they've got a 'Get out of Hell free' card.  In fact, Paul writes in Romans 6 "Are we to continue to sin that grace may abound?  By no means!"  We should seek to live good lives, but our 'good works' are the fruit of our salvation, not the root of it.  So good works aren't enough to get you into Heaven.  They never have been and never will be.  In fact, the Bible basically says we're all bad and can only be made good by our Savior.  We like to believe we aren't that bad, but the reality is we are.  We're a rebellious people against a loving God.  It's not a matter of how much you sin, it's the gravity of the One you have sinned against.

 

3.  Jesus isn't just a prophet.  It's always been strange to me how people, including most Muslims I meet, will tell me that Jesus was a good guy and had a lot of great teachings, but He wasn't the Messiah.  Well He claimed to be God fairly explicitly.  If He did that, we're left with three options:  (1) He's a liar, so he's not that good, (2) He's crazy, so definitely not someone worth listening to, or (3) He's telling the truth about Himself.  And if He's telling the truth about Himself, we have to submit to that truth or face the punishment spoken of.  Once again, it's not a matter of if they believe Jesus was a prophet or not or even that He really existed.  The demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they aren't redeemed.  It comes down to repenting of your sin and placing your trust in Him.  Muslims have not done that.  So no, they would not go to Heaven.

 

4.  I'd side with the latter rather than the former.  We see from the beginning in Genesis that God made man and woman in His image, something very distinct from the rest of creation.  While plants and animals, heck even rocks, can and do give glory to God, not in the same way that humans do.  We are different.  And that's a good thing!  It shows how much God loves and cares about us.  That doesn't mean He doesn't care about the animals or the environment.  He does.  We see in Matthew 10:29, "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?  Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father's care."  But check this out, in verse 31 Jesus goes on to say this, "So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."  While God does care for animals and plants, He cares for us so much more.  We're different than them.  We have dominion over them.  That doesn't mean we should exploit our environment or the animals around us, but we should take care of it and do good to it.  We are called to do that.

 

5.  Yes, from Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."  This is probably the most offensive verse in Scripture honestly, but it tells us exactly how things began.  God created the heavens, not referencing the location "Heaven", but the heavenly bodies, i.e. space, and the earth that we know and love.  God is the originator of it all.

 

 

 

I hope that helped.  Got pinged to this thread by @NaBrZHunter so wanted to check it out.  Glad to see some interest in this topic.

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, anonymous said:

I appreciate the answers, yet I do have some questions. You see, I have never talked to someone who was so devoted and religious, so I'm pretty curious to your view of certain things (like the questions I've asked earlier). Not sure if you prefer to keep it to private messages, @NaBrZHunter, or here in this thread. If it's in this thread, @andydabeast and @FatedTitan can supplement you in your comments.

 

 

Seems like @FatedTitan and I have extremely similar faiths :thumbsup: 
I am fine with discussing here. Maybe others have similar questions. I do like explaining my faith to people with questions because it seems like there are a lot of people claiming to be Christians in this world while contradicting Jesus and the Bible. Nobody is perfect, but from facebook conversations it seems too common for a non-Christian's view of Christianity to be skewed and mis-communicated by one incident involving somebody not being a very good Christian. 

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NaBrZHunter    488
44 minutes ago, anonymous said:

I appreciate the answers, yet I do have some questions. You see, I have never talked to someone who was so devoted and religious, so I'm pretty curious to your view of certain things (like the questions I've asked earlier). Not sure if you prefer to keep it to private messages, @NaBrZHunter, or here in this thread. If it's in this thread, @andydabeast and @FatedTitan can supplement you in your comments.

 

I would be happy to discuss here. My hesitancy is that the subject of the Christian faith is rarely discussed without conflict, sadly enough. The Lord prayed fervently that this would not be the case, in the Gospel of John 17.

And for someone in your positition, it is very important that you not encounter that conflict at this point in your experience. So if you would like to exclusively discuss it here, I'll be happy to chip in, but for issues of such a deep and personally relevant nature, I do like to give the individual my full attention so the discussion doesn't get sidetracked. So just ping me if you like - even email me (nabrzhunter.pro@gmail.com), but until then, you can @ me here, as always. :)

In general, however, yes, @andydabeast and @FatedTitan and I are able to supplement each other in discussion.

 

@andydabeast @FatedTitan and I have extended discussions over DM as well sometime, and I'd be delighted to do the same with you so as to clarify some things. I wholly agree with your last statement, especially, however. One of the tragedies of the faith, ever since Judas betrayed the Lord.

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anonymous    323

Thank you @andydabeast, but I would like to make clear that there is not such thing as a good Christian or a not good Christian. I mean, in your eyes there is and you surely can think and believe whatever you want, and maybe it is the truth what you believe, but that does not make Christians that believe and act a bit different immediately a bad Christian. He/she has just as much right to believe what he/she wants as you. In their eyes, you might be a not good Christian, but that does not make you a not good Christian either, does it?

 

Sorry, I had to say that. Now here are my questions:

 

1) Someone who does not believe in God yet is a nice person who never killed someone or committed a crime, goes to Hell. A murderer who really believes in God and acknowledges that Jesus is his son, will go to Heaven. Isn't that a bit hypocrite? If I recall correctly, Jesus sacrificed himself to purify the sins of humanity. Humans stealers, murdered and destroyed. Yet God forgave them and his son sacrificed himself. If someone has murdered, yet confesses and believes in the Messiah, he will still go to Hell, even while his kind of sins (murder) were the cause of Christ's sacrifice. A normal person who has not killed someone will go to Hell if he does not believe in God and Jesus, even while he has not sinned. He has killed no one. If there would be only good people like him on Earth, God did not even needed to sacrifice his son. And yet he goes to Hell, while the murderer, the cause of Christ's crusifixion, can go to Heaven. Don't you think that's odd?

 

2) @NaBrZHunter, this question is for you. You are such a devoted Christian, yet you always make such sciencific topics. The nature of the Aether. Plasma wonder weapons. It's all physics and chemistry combined. Even in the comment you just posted you  a talking about "the laws of physics". It's funny, I always (perhaps unfairly) connect religion to the disbelieve in science. So, my question is, do you and @andydabeast and @FatedTitan believe in science? And in the big bang and Darwin's evolution theory? Has God created the laws of science along with Earth and the universe perhaps? Maybe God created things like gravity, mutations and survival of the fittest? I mean, like @DaveLo07 said: What caused the Big Bang? Maybe it was indeed God...

 

3) You've talked about the Devil. Do you believe he exists too? I self (like I said in the OP) am partly Christian: I believe that God exists in the form of love (remember: love has a very wide meaning: forgiveness, friendship, affection, true love, etc), but not in the form of a supreme entity and a Creator. Therefore, I do not believe in the Devil. Evil humans are just filled with bad emotions and have no God a.k.a. love. If the answer is yes, I would also like to know how the Devil has influence on Earth. What he does and causes.

 

4) Has God, besides after your death and before your birth, influence on you? Like that he can make you feel happy or sad or some sort. Can he manipulate the mind and feelings of a human being?

 

5) Have any of you ever had the feeling that you are directly connected with God? "A moment of enlightenment" or however you call it?

 

6) From Christians here I've heard that humans are basically borrowing Earth of God (forgot the name for that) and that it has to keep it in good shape. How do you feel about the direction Earth is going right now. The destruction of forests, coral reefs and the pollution of the air, sea and soil. What should we do? Should mankind act for ttheir selvesand is it our own fault if Earth becomes inhabitable? Or should we trust in God?

 

7) When you turns ill, is it God's will? Do you use medicines and drugs to get better or do you trust in God? 

 

8) The last one is a very direct and simple one: Do you believe in extraterrestrials?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm sorry if I have asked a few things the wrong way. It's all curiousity that comes from my side, nothing more. Although I disagree with you some times, I respect your opinion about religion, and after all, we are now talking about YOUR religion. But these things I just wanted to know

 

 

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Steelie    14

@anonymous I share your interest! And this idea of otherworldy creatures and us sharing an afterlife is amazing food for thought. I really love sci-fi stuff as well, and especially designs in it (I also play Warframe because of this). I'm an absolute sucker for space stuff in general though, with dangerous things like black holes and neutron stars and such being the focus of my interest (^8
I could talk for hours about those, but I'll spare you that :sweat_smile:  I'd also love to go touring through countries, searching for who-knows-what. Or walk through abandoned things like houses or factories or theme parks, I always wonder what makes them abandoned.

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NaBrZHunter    488

@anonymous That is a GREAT list of questions! I'm super excited. JSYK, I'm at work and will do my best to respond over lunch here in about 1.5 hours. If I can't get it all in, I'll put it off until this evening, 'cause I wanna be fully focused. :) Good to hear from you, BTW! I know I vanished...I'll explain at some point. And hopefully someday I can chat about the ol' storyline again. Good times... :75:

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anonymous    323

@NaBrZHunter Thanks my friend, take your time. I'm going with some friends to a local festival tonight, so I'm gone anyway. Over, like, 6 yourself or so, or perhaps tomorrow morning, I'll be back. So no hurry!

 

@Steelie: supernatural beings, remote countries and abandoned buildings... We share an interest for the unknown. For mysteries. I'll come back on this, would love it to talk with ya about these things

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NaBrZHunter    488

RESPONSE TO @anonymous Question 1: Final Destination

 

First of all, I want to acknowledge that the Bible may have no consequence whatsoever in the minds of those who may read this, whether you are atheist, non-Christian, or like yourself, @anonymous, "uncatechised," that is to say, untrained in the faith. And so therefore, my use of Scripture here is not in such a way as to say, "it's in the Bible, it must be true," although I myself know that to be the case, others may not have come to that conclusion as of yet. References to Scripture are for the purpose of supporting my statements in light of one of the three sources of authoritative Christian teaching, that, once a Christian, we come to know as truth.

 

I also use italics and CAPITALIZATION for emphasis. Please read it as such, and not as me raising my voice or "Bible thumping." LOL!

 

1. Final Destination

I do not want to get overly weighty with the answer regarding one's final destination, but put simply, one must understand that in order to enter into final unity with Christ Jesus, one must live for the love of Him. When you love someone, and this case, they are in authority over you in all things (God Himself) you honor them, you obey them, you emulate them, and you seek to bring others to know them, and also, to submit themselves to His loving authority, as you would a criminal to just authority. 

Now, that is not to say that someone who has never encountered the Lord Jesus and His Church within their lifetime, say, a 5-year-old Hindu child can be held culpable for her lack of personal awareness of the covenant of Jesus' redemption. The great evangelist of the first century, St. Paul, say the following in his letter to the Roman Christians:

 

NOTE: The below is pretty heavy information, so I don't expect you to figure it out on your own. In fact, St. Peter, the human head of the Church (Jesus is the ultimate head of the Church) warned people against attempting to figure out what St. Paul was saying all by themselves because it was so complex that misunderstanding could lead to believing it wrong, and therefore, living contrary to Christianity. So read soberly.
 

Quote

Romans 2:20-25

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the law and boast of your relation to God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed in the law, and if you are sure that you are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth - you then who teach others, will you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 

 

What St. Paul is saying, in simple English is: those who have no exposure to the truth of Jesus Christ can indeed be justified if they truly seek to live in such a way as to uphold moral standards out of love for their fellow man. On the other hand, just professing to "believe in Jesus" really gets you nowhere if you do not obey His commands. So no, a murderer who "believes" in Jesus will not "make it to Heaven." St. James says clearly that just "having faith" in Jesus CANNOT save you, in his letter to the Church: 

 

Quote

James 2:18-20

But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish man, that faith apart from works is barren? 

 

He compares those who say "I believe," but then either sin, or fail to live their lives in loving obedience to Christ Jesus to demons, who know who God is, but hate and rebel against him. Not a good situation for your murderer guy. 

 

IF, however, that murderer recognizes his wrong, and in sincerity, confesses his sin to one of God's ministers (we call them priests), and resolves to never again commit the sin, he will be forgiven. (I might also add that he is generally told he must turn himself in, if he is at large).

But with each occasion of sin afterwards, he again puts himself in a situation in which he will not enter Heaven if he dies.

 

The key here, however, is not who is a "better person," but who does, for the love of God (if they know and believe in Jesus Christ), or for the love of their fellow men (if they do not know Jesus Christ), live uprightly, God can bring them to everlasting life with Him. 

Those who will not be saved are those who deliberately continue in sin, regardless of whether they know God, as well as those who, despite knowing Jesus, reject his offer of salvation, and by their own decision to reject Him and refuse to live their lives as He has commanded them to do within His Catholic Church, will continue to reject him after this life, and, to put it simply, will send themselves to Hell.

 

St. Paul also tells us in Romans 6:23:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

But also in Romans 3:23:

"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

 

So Jesus died not just to give murderers, rapists, idolaters or adulterers a "shot at Heaven," but EVERYONE who reveres Him as their Lord and master and are baptized, and ever afterwards seek to obey Him in EVERYTHING that He expects from us.

 

So even the child who wrongfully takes from the store a candy bar that does not belong to him, knowing he is stealing it, needs Jesus to be his Savior. Because God is perfect. Perfect beyond anything we can imagine. He errs NEVER and in NOTHING, and He NEVER changes. We do not have a "right" to be with Him when we die, as none of us are perfect as He is. But when Jesus, who was perfect, died (the punishment for imperfection), He gave us an opportunity to follow him (not just "believe" in him), and in following Him, in His mercy, he gives us ALL an opportunity to repent.

 

I hope that is clear. This is why I would much prefer to have a private convo...I am VERY cautious about this topic as it is EASY to offend Christians who do not have a right understanding of justification, also, can be misunderstood by non-Christians who think that now that they read this from a Christian, they can continue to reject Jesus and live a "good life" and be saved. So PLEASE, ask for clarification if ANY OF THIS does not make sense or you need further detail.

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andydabeast    39
5 hours ago, anonymous said:

Thank you @andydabeast, but I would like to make clear that there is not such thing as a good Christian or a not good Christian. I mean, in your eyes there is and you surely can think and believe whatever you want, and maybe it is the truth what you believe, but that does not make Christians that believe and act a bit different immediately a bad Christian. He/she has just as much right to believe what he/she wants as you. In their eyes, you might be a not good Christian, but that does not make you a not good Christian either, does it?

 

Sorry, I had to say that. Now here are my questions:

 

1) Someone who does not believe in God yet is a nice person who never killed someone or committed a crime, goes to Hell. A murderer who really believes in God and acknowledges that Jesus is his son, will go to Heaven. Isn't that a bit hypocrite? If I recall correctly, Jesus sacrificed himself to purify the sins of humanity. Humans stealers, murdered and destroyed. Yet God forgave them and his son sacrificed himself. If someone has murdered, yet confesses and believes in the Messiah, he will still go to Hell, even while his kind of sins (murder) were the cause of Christ's sacrifice. A normal person who has not killed someone will go to Hell if he does not believe in God and Jesus, even while he has not sinned. He has killed no one. If there would be only good people like him on Earth, God did not even needed to sacrifice his son. And yet he goes to Hell, while the murderer, the cause of Christ's crusifixion, can go to Heaven. Don't you think that's odd?

 

2) @NaBrZHunter, this question is for you. You are such a devoted Christian, yet you always make such sciencific topics. The nature of the Aether. Plasma wonder weapons. It's all physics and chemistry combined. Even in the comment you just posted you  a talking about "the laws of physics". It's funny, I always (perhaps unfairly) connect religion to the disbelieve in science. So, my question is, do you and @andydabeast and @FatedTitan believe in science? And in the big bang and Darwin's evolution theory? Has God created the laws of science along with Earth and the universe perhaps? Maybe God created things like gravity, mutations and survival of the fittest? I mean, like @DaveLo07 said: What caused the Big Bang? Maybe it was indeed God...

 

3) You've talked about the Devil. Do you believe he exists too? I self (like I said in the OP) am partly Christian: I believe that God exists in the form of love (remember: love has a very wide meaning: forgiveness, friendship, affection, true love, etc), but not in the form of a supreme entity and a Creator. Therefore, I do not believe in the Devil. Evil humans are just filled with bad emotions and have no God a.k.a. love. If the answer is yes, I would also like to know how the Devil has influence on Earth. What he does and causes.

 

4) Has God, besides after your death and before your birth, influence on you? Like that he can make you feel happy or sad or some sort. Can he manipulate the mind and feelings of a human being?

 

5) Have any of you ever had the feeling that you are directly connected with God? "A moment of enlightenment" or however you call it?

 

6) From Christians here I've heard that humans are basically borrowing Earth of God (forgot the name for that) and that it has to keep it in good shape. How do you feel about the direction Earth is going right now. The destruction of forests, coral reefs and the pollution of the air, sea and soil. What should we do? Should mankind act for ttheir selvesand is it our own fault if Earth becomes inhabitable? Or should we trust in God?

 

7) When you turns ill, is it God's will? Do you use medicines and drugs to get better or do you trust in God? 

 

8) The last one is a very direct and simple one: Do you believe in extraterrestrials?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm sorry if I have asked a few things the wrong way. It's all curiousity that comes from my side, nothing more. Although I disagree with you some times, I respect your opinion about religion, and after all, we are now talking about YOUR religion. But these things I just wanted to know

 

 

 

I will answer all of these from my belief perspective, but need the time to read it all. For now I'll take a quick one. 
5. I have. Two different ways. One is in worship. A couple times I really got into the moment and you could just feel His spirit. It is very hard to explain but I am never the only one who noticed during those particular worship sessions. (churches I go to have more contemporary worship)

The second is when God uses something or someone to speak directly to me. It will sound strange if you have never experienced it. It is always when something is really on my heart I am asking or praying about and something will stand out to me that shouldn't. Like I will be flipping through my Bible on my way to where I am going to read and a sentence from another part will jump off the page and apply directly to my current situation or problem. Or someone at a bible study will be sharing and then one of their sentences does the same thing. They have no idea but their words were exactly perfect of a response to my situation, unknown to them. 

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NaBrZHunter    488

Alright, resuming with question:

 

2. Science and Faith

 

On 7/27/2017 at 10:32 AM, anonymous said:

2) @NaBrZHunter, this question is for you. You are such a devoted Christian, yet you always make such sciencific topics. The nature of the Aether. Plasma wonder weapons. It's all physics and chemistry combined. Even in the comment you just posted you  a talking about "the laws of physics". It's funny, I always (perhaps unfairly) connect religion to the disbelieve in science. So, my question is, do you and @andydabeast and @FatedTitan believe in science? And in the big bang and Darwin's evolution theory? Has God created the laws of science along with Earth and the universe perhaps? Maybe God created things like gravity, mutations and survival of the fittest? I mean, like @DaveLo07 said: What caused the Big Bang? Maybe it was indeed God...

 

Science cannot contradict faith. Scientists can, and have, on many, many occasions. They're only human. But unless that scientist denies the existence of God, there is nothing wrong with being wrong, or slightly off in your scientific theories. But a scientist does not have the authority to deny the existence of God. That question actually falls within the realm of philosophy, if anything. Not science. But that's the beauty of science! It is the exploration of this glorious playground that God has constructed for us, and it is His delight that we should study and get to know it. In the Bible, Psalm 19 declares: 

 

The heavens are telling the glory of God;
    and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours forth speech,
    and night to night declares knowledge.
There is no speech, nor are there words;
    their voice is not heard;
yet their voice goes out through all the earth,
    and their words to the end of the world.

 

No scientific law can disprove God, for He is the creator of those very laws, and the very embodiment of the logic and reason upon which they are established! We are mere students. How arrogant do we have to be, O we who can hardly live past 100 and take millennia just to figure out how to magnify microscopic objects so small they cannot be seen by our naked eye, to imagine that we have finally reached a place of such authority as to declare God to be nonexistent?

 

So I love science. In my experience, science is one of the means by which we grow to know the Mind of God. Faith is the means by which we come to know both His Mind and His Heart.

For this cause, the Catholic Church has always endorsed and encouraged and partaken in scientific study and advancement. Here is a list of Catholic clergy alone who have been involved in the history of science.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_cleric-scientists

 

Take note especially of:

Msgr. Georges Lemaitre, who is the FATHER OF THE BIG BANG THEORY (did you know that the Big Bang theory was of Christian origin? Ask National Geographic)

Fr. Gregor Mendel, Father of modern genetics

Alessandro Serpieri, priest, astronomer, and seismologist who studied shooting stars, and was the first to introduce the concept of the seismic radiant.

 

Read through the linked list. Pretty amazing. And that's just Catholic priests, bishops and monastics! That doesn't count Catholic layfolk scientists!

 

The idea that Christians cannot accept scientific discoveries is a Protestant (mostly fundamentalist) concept and heresy or false doctrine, especially as it concerns the Genesis account of the creation of the universe. Catholics, however, understand that the Bible is not a book but a collection of books  (which, incidentally, was actually compiled by the Catholic Church in the first place in the late 300s' to early 400s': Read On). This collection of books contains many different genres of writing that must be understood in the proper context and genre in which they were written. Genesis is a cross between a poetic and historical document, and therefore, as stated, we understand that the story of creation can be interpreted to be non-literal. As St. Peter wrote, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8

 

Neither is St. Peter being precise. "A thousand years" was merely a representation for a lengthy amount of time. He could have said "sixty-five million years" instead, and his point would remain the same. God is not confined by the limits of the space-time continuum. He created the dimension we know as the "space-time continuum." So just as I could build a tiny house and put my hand inside of it, God can and has created our universe, and even reaches in to be with us within our universe while simultaneously being on the outside of it and being in no way contained by it.

 

Could he have created the earth in 6 24-hour days? Sure. Why not? Could he have made it all in 6 seconds? Sure. Why not? Did he? I don't really think so. Do I know everything? Absolutely not. Am I right this time? God knows, I don't. Probably not entirely, if at all. Could he have made the universe in 37 Billion years? Sure. Why not? He made us so that it takes 9 months for a human baby to fully form. He is logic and he is reason. And it doesn't matter to me so much how he did it as it does that He did it in the first place. And I love it, and I love Him for it. Glory be to God forever and ever!
Please take the time to watch the videos below:

 

 

 

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NaBrZHunter    488

@anonymous Apologies for the delay, I am still hyped to answer the rest of the questions (and will compile them all into one post once I have done so). Between work, long drives, family, and my theological studies (and, I admit, a few - just a few, I promise - games of BO3... ;) I have been up to my chin in it this week. Stay tuned, then. 

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The Meh    75

Religion for me will always be a sort of... odd topic. I mean... to be fair, I've written my series of maps, which in itself has a being who is essentially God. Though I'd like to consider myself agnostic.

 

Though, using that term's odd to me as well. So... meh.

 

If there's ever a thought in my head that wants to return each day or two it's the whole concept of what exists past our perception, or what will come beyond our mortality. It's a tough thing, and a question A LOT of people (mostly philosophical and intellectual people) like to ask. The thing about that is that until we see actual proof of the existence of a god (or gods), an afterlife, or... well, anything beyond, we simply can't know. We simply DON'T know.  It's... ironically, like what Doctor Monty says in Revelations: "Beyond the world you know... beyond your perception." Humans just can't comprehend something they cannot witness or observe (also kind of ties in to the whole "reality doesn't exist unless observed" hypothesis, but that's a whole other conversation in itself).

 

So... for me, in this mindset, it's... hard to justify how I see anything in that light. There may very well be a god and a Heaven, just as much as a general afterlife (and god do I hope so, since I consider myself a thanatophobic and I can't bear thinking of death just being a void of nothingness where I just cease to be, unaware of my ceasing to be because ... I'm just going to stop there). I just can't say I understand how or why it may be. I can't seem to grasp how it is possible to know of the presence of these things without having seen them and understanding their existence as true. I don't not believe the possibility of it existing, but I don't think I believe that I can ever know why or how it can exist. If that sentence made sense.

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andydabeast    39
 

Thank you @andydabeast, but I would like to make clear that there is not such thing as a good Christian or a not good Christian. I mean, in your eyes there is and you surely can think and believe whatever you want, and maybe it is the truth what you believe, but that does not make Christians that believe and act a bit different immediately a bad Christian. He/she has just as much right to believe what he/she wants as you. In their eyes, you might be a not good Christian, but that does not make you a not good Christian either, does it?

 

Sorry, I had to say that. Now here are my questions:

 

1) Someone who does not believe in God yet is a nice person who never killed someone or committed a crime, goes to Hell. A murderer who really believes in God and acknowledges that Jesus is his son, will go to Heaven. Isn't that a bit hypocrite? If I recall correctly, Jesus sacrificed himself to purify the sins of humanity. Humans stealers, murdered and destroyed. Yet God forgave them and his son sacrificed himself. If someone has murdered, yet confesses and believes in the Messiah, he will still go to Hell, even while his kind of sins (murder) were the cause of Christ's sacrifice. A normal person who has not killed someone will go to Hell if he does not believe in God and Jesus, even while he has not sinned. He has killed no one. If there would be only good people like him on Earth, God did not even needed to sacrifice his son. And yet he goes to Hell, while the murderer, the cause of Christ's crusifixion, can go to Heaven. Don't you think that's odd?

 

2) @NaBrZHunter, this question is for you. You are such a devoted Christian, yet you always make such sciencific topics. The nature of the Aether. Plasma wonder weapons. It's all physics and chemistry combined. Even in the comment you just posted you  a talking about "the laws of physics". It's funny, I always (perhaps unfairly) connect religion to the disbelieve in science. So, my question is, do you and @andydabeast and @FatedTitan believe in science? And in the big bang and Darwin's evolution theory? Has God created the laws of science along with Earth and the universe perhaps? Maybe God created things like gravity, mutations and survival of the fittest? I mean, like @DaveLo07 said: What caused the Big Bang? Maybe it was indeed God...

 

3) You've talked about the Devil. Do you believe he exists too? I self (like I said in the OP) am partly Christian: I believe that God exists in the form of love (remember: love has a very wide meaning: forgiveness, friendship, affection, true love, etc), but not in the form of a supreme entity and a Creator. Therefore, I do not believe in the Devil. Evil humans are just filled with bad emotions and have no God a.k.a. love. If the answer is yes, I would also like to know how the Devil has influence on Earth. What he does and causes.

 

4) Has God, besides after your death and before your birth, influence on you? Like that he can make you feel happy or sad or some sort. Can he manipulate the mind and feelings of a human being?

 

5) Have any of you ever had the feeling that you are directly connected with God? "A moment of enlightenment" or however you call it?

 

6) From Christians here I've heard that humans are basically borrowing Earth of God (forgot the name for that) and that it has to keep it in good shape. How do you feel about the direction Earth is going right now. The destruction of forests, coral reefs and the pollution of the air, sea and soil. What should we do? Should mankind act for ttheir selvesand is it our own fault if Earth becomes inhabitable? Or should we trust in God?

 

7) When you turns ill, is it God's will? Do you use medicines and drugs to get better or do you trust in God? 

 

8) The last one is a very direct and simple one: Do you believe in extraterrestrials?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm sorry if I have asked a few things the wrong way. It's all curiousity that comes from my side, nothing more. Although I disagree with you some times, I respect your opinion about religion, and after all, we are now talking about YOUR religion. But these things I just wanted to know

 

 

 

Here is my answer to #1. I read a lot of @NaBrZHunter's post and although I don't think I disagree with anything I think the answer is much simpler. 

1. When you say things like "A normal person who has not killed someone will go to Hell if he does not believe in God and Jesus, even while he has not sinned. He has killed no one. If there would be only good people like him on Earth, God did not even needed to sacrifice his son." I think the definition of "sin" is where the confusion comes from. Sin is anything against God, even down to thoughts. Earlier in this thread I think I explained it well:

 

"I believe the root of this question is in what hakes someone bad enough to not deserve heaven. Murder? Mass Murder? Or simply the thought of murder? In the Bible (Matt 5:21) Jesus said that to think of murdering someone is murder in your heart. It is all a sin. Only one sin is required to be not fit for Heaven, which is why Jesus lived the sinless life and took all our punishment. Everyone has sinned (Romans 3:23) so nobody is truly good. That is why we all need Jesus to get to Heaven."

 

So back to your question, everyone is a sinner and needs Jesus. Yes it is odd that there are probably people in heaven right now who did terrible things. Look at Paul for example. He was named Saul before he became a Christian and hunted Christians down to kill them. No joke, that was his career. After his conversion he became one of the most influential people in the early church, writing much of the New Testament. In the end, we are saved by our Faith, not our works. 

 

I'll leave my previous answers in here just for keeping them in one place.
5. I have. Two different ways. One is in worship. A couple times I really got into the moment and you could just feel His spirit. It is very hard to explain but I am never the only one who noticed during those particular worship sessions. (churches I go to have more contemporary worship)

The second is when God uses something or someone to speak directly to me. It will sound strange if you have never experienced it. It is always when something is really on my heart I am asking or praying about and something will stand out to me that shouldn't. Like I will be flipping through my Bible on my way to where I am going to read and a sentence from another part will jump off the page and apply directly to my current situation or problem. Or someone at a bible study will be sharing and then one of their sentences does the same thing. They have no idea but their words were exactly perfect of a response to my situation, unknown to them. 

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