Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Meh

What the community SHOULD be asking...

Recommended Posts

The Meh    77

So, I was playing through some of the Black Ops III Zombies maps recently, and... while I was playing, I was reminded... perhaps, I reminisced upon Black Ops II Zombies (damn me and my Xbox One - I can't just go and play Black Ops II again yet). Specifically, Origins. Which, I'll be honest - I think I speak for a lot of people when I can confidently call Origins one of the best zombies maps. It's certainly no Mob of the Dead or... whatever else the community finds as popular... but, it's not far off.

 

Origins was fun, yeah? The Staffs, Samantha wanting to be freed from Agartha... and then you pick up the Zombie Blood on certain rounds and Samantha just sorta tells you quotes specific to your character... which, is odd... and more-so, honestly groundbreaking if we think about them now.

 

The particular quotes I'm talking about are the ones that Samantha directs to Richtofen during Zombie Blood. I can link a full video of her quotes here (she says these quotes around 8:30... also, credit to @PINNAZ for that video). The quotes are:

 

"You are not listening to me, Edward... don't you want to tell me?"

"You don't even remember how long this has been going on for... how long we have been trapped here..."

"You cannot prevent what is coming, Edward. The loop must be closed."

 

It's almost STARTLING that this hasn't been questioned by anyone, but these quotes make... absolutely NO sense anymore. We don't close any loop, at all. By enacting the EE in Origins, we set up the chain of events that cause this loop to even exist in the first place, as proven by the tenure and story of the maps we have seen from Black Ops III. Not a single person prevented it, Richtofen especially - he practically advocated it, using the protection of the blood vials as a way of keeping the cycle intact.

...which is where we end up, again.

 

That, and things like the comic and somewhat by Black Ops III, pretty much prove the main storyline's "loop" isn't closed either.

So... that leaves us with the question:

 

What loop was closed? What exactly did we do in Origins, else than enact that which would set off the chain of events of Black Ops III, which justly set off its chain of events so that Origins could exist in the first place? If we broke the loop somehow from Origins, would Black Ops III even exist at all? Does the story of Black Ops III even exists at all, or are we seeing the perspective of abiding the cycle?

 

These types of questions honestly boggle me... and I'm pretty surprised that I seem to be the only one who noticed it so far. But, in any case... I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

Per aspera ad astra,

-The Meh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    330

My best guess would be that Samantha is speaking for the Apothicans.

Quote

"You don't remember how long this has been going on"

The fight between the Keepers and Apothicans perhaps? Could be about the whole shit happened in WaW/BO1 and BO2 too, although Origins happened earlier. But time has no meaning in the Aether

Quote

How long we have been trapped here

Definitely sounds like the Apothicans, although it also can refer to Sam and Richthofen's soal somehow still in the Aether, even after leaving the MPD (because that might be the reason why they are in the house).

Quote

You cannot prevent what is coming

That sounds very Apothican again to me. Or by Apothican/Dark Aether-corrupted Samantha.

Quote

The loop must be closed

Probably the strangest one. Everybody is talking about "the loop must be broken" and now Sam wants you to close it. IF it is an Apothican (Shadowman, Overlord, corrupted Samantha), what use does it have for them to close and continue the loop?

 

Good notice, @TheMeh. Hopefully this triggers a discussion which we need to understand what's going on in Origins/Mob/BO3

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Fadelical    7

Hm, that is very interesting, and I never heard that quote four years ago when the map came out because she talks with a low voice so I never really minded what she said.  Before I start though, know that I use alternate reality and alternate universe interchangeably here.

 

Anyways, the overall story of Treyarch's zombies seems to be that these Apothicons shoot Divinium meteors into different realities so they act as beacons for later consumption or something right?

 

Well, the only direct mention of any sort of loop that I know of involves the trailer (opening cinematic) for The Giant map.  Once young Richtofen blows the brains out of old Richtofen, we hear Dempsey's distress about being "done with this" to which Richtofen replies that "things change."  That sort of implies that the team has attempted to change the course of history before, but they tentatively agreed to stop doing so, yet Richtofen still does.  Then Nikolai talks about foolishness of changing history to which Richtofen states that its to "secure a better tomorrow."  

 

With this info, I can speculate that the loop that Samantha refers to in Origins seems to be the standard timeline that we've already seen.  That is, the same timeline we experience in the World at War, Black Ops, and Black Ops 2 maps.  And this timeline seems to be constant across many alternate realities.

 

Standard timeline loop (ultra simplification): Germany discovers 115 in WWI, Richtofen goes insane, they conduct more research with 115 in WWII, he captures the other three, they travel through time until Richtofen controls the zombie on the moon and blows up the world, and it ends with either Richtofen or Maxis in charge due to the actions of the Green Run group.

 

Zombies mode seems to borrow this idea of constants and variables from BioShock Infinite.  In that game, we learn that across infinite universes, some things will always remain similar if not the same (the constants), while other factors change between them (the variables).

 

This standard timeline loop always happens across multiple alternate universes, representing the constant.  Knowing this, Samanatha goes back in time (from where we left off in the map Buried) and tries to break the loop by convincing the four young men (Dempsey, Richtofen, Nikolai, Takeo) to do what she says.  We complete the Origins easter egg and from there, the loop starts to break.  The loop is not fully closed, however, until we reach The Giant's trailer.  Here, we are witnessing the loop occur again, but this time in an alternate universe as evident from the Iron Cross being present everywhere instead of the Nazi symbol.  Once old Richtofen dies, that prevents the events of the Black Ops 1 and 2 maps from happening again and sets the stage for the Black Ops 3 maps.  Even in the Black Ops 3 maps, we can see that some of the different alternate universes start to get crazy because of the fact that they changed history from killing old Richtofen, (especially noticeable in Gorod Krovi) therefore creating new, possibly scary possibilities for the future.  Once the team destroys the Apothicons, they finally prevent them from shooting anymore Divinium into different universes, thus closing those realities off once and for all.  Without Divinium, the standard timeline loop will never be possible anymore.  Dragons wouldn't be possible, zombies wouldn't be possible, teleportation, the wonder weapons, the mystery box all wouldn't be possible without 115.  That's why the blood vials posed a threat to Monty because they come from alternate universes that no longer exist (because 115 no longer exists).

 

So that's what I believe the loop to be.  I'm not sure if I explained myself that well, so if you have any questions, just ask me and I will try to clarify my observations/viewpoints.  You can also say I'm wrong and provide your view of the storyline, I'm cool with that too.  Although many people think that the story ended poorly, I believe that the journey getting there made it all worthwhile to experience.

 

 

Edited by Fadelical
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    330

@Fadelical Wow, thanks man. I've never heard someone explain the story so easy. And the way you talk about it shows me that BO3 not really fucked up the previous story that much. I always thought BO3 was so complicated and completely ignore everything happened before, but now you explain it so simply, I actually like it (kinda). Nicely done!

 

One question: How could the standard timeline be a loop? I mean, After Buried we don't continue with WW1, do we?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't read it good enough. So only Samantha goes back in time, trying to change the future? But how? And when? Because Samantha is demonic insane since she entered the MPD. In Origins she sounds pretty normal. Even when Richthofen entered the Moon Pyramid Device, Samantha's soal in Richthofen's body remains crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

My interpretation is that there isn't a singular loop. Loops, timelines, alternate universes, and paradoxes appear all over the story. They're kinda vague and kinda inconsistent. For example, Groph and SOPHIA both reference Maxis specifically with the line "the loop must be closed". Groph says Maxis says this. Actually, Maxis said "the paradox must be resolved". Close, but like I said, inconsistent.

 

Der Riese had long been speculated to be in a time loop. Alcatraz literally for a fact is in one. While not technically loops per-say, many things have gone back in time to change things to not quite succeed, giving the appearance of a loop to the casual observer. And in several levels, resurrection upon death is explicitly used to explain a loop of life and death upon playing the levels: TranZit-Buried, Mob of the Dead, Origins. This leads to speculation that there are systems for reverting to life from death in other levels as well. We can for a certainty say that the Mobsters in Mob of the Dead were in a loop that repeated a HUGE number of times.

 

The entirety of Black Ops III (Giant to Gorod Krovi) could be considered a loop as well. Richtofen indicated many times that he had gone through those events before, that he has been there and done this an uncountable number of times. These would be branching in alternate timelines, but to him, his life would seem to be a loop. This is why Richtofen is so aloof and doesn't explain much throughout this series. He's already done it so many times that he just doesn't waste the time doing it anymore. 

 

That's my interpretation anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Meh    77
6 hours ago, Fadelical said:

Zombies mode seems to borrow this idea of constants and variables from BioShock Infinite.  In that game, we learn that across infinite universes, some things will always remain similar if not the same (the constants), while other factors change between them (the variables).

 

This standard timeline loop always happens across multiple alternate universes, representing the constant.  Knowing this, Samanatha goes back in time (from where we left off in the map Buried) and tries to break the loop by convincing the four young men (Dempsey, Richtofen, Nikolai, Takeo) to do what she says.  We complete the Origins easter egg and from there, the loop starts to break.  The loop is not fully closed, however, until we reach The Giant's trailer.  Here, we are witnessing the loop occur again, but this time in an alternate universe as evident from the Iron Cross being present everywhere instead of the Nazi symbol.  Once old Richtofen dies, that prevents the events of the Black Ops 1 and 2 maps from happening again and sets the stage for the Black Ops 3 maps.  Even in the Black Ops 3 maps, we can see that some of the different alternate universes start to get crazy because of the fact that they changed history from killing old Richtofen, (especially noticeable in Gorod Krovi) therefore creating new, possibly scary possibilities for the future.  Once the team destroys the Apothicons, they finally prevent them from shooting anymore Divinium into different universes, thus closing those realities off once and for all.  Without Divinium, the standard timeline loop will never be possible anymore.  Dragons wouldn't be possible, zombies wouldn't be possible, teleportation, the wonder weapons, the mystery box all wouldn't be possible without 115.  That's why the blood vials posed a threat to Monty because they come from alternate universes that no longer exist (because 115 no longer exists).

 

I will admit that I have always seen a similar correlation with "constants and variables" scattered around Zombies each time it comes to mind, and applying it to Zombies therein makes sense enough. Although, with this in mind, it somewhat bears the question... are time and space separate entities of metaphysical control? Do they run in a connected fashion whilst being entirely separate of themselves? Added, the general question looms about the Revelations ending being applied to your explanation. The loop can be/effectively is closed, sure, but that doesn't exactly explain why they get sent back in the first place... unless that was always supposed to be like that in the first place, and them being wiped from existence would have completely broken the cycle and... well, would have likely ripped apart most the universes afflicted by the standard timeline.

 

It's like saying that they had to be there to cause it to happen, and they ended up doing so. Almost reminds me of the bootstrap paradox, which Doctor Who effortlessly explains in the video below:

 

 

It's honestly plenty confusing when you think about it, but... in any case, a lot of questions can be presented of this, and I honestly feel like asking them asks plenty more... but that's also a good thing, so, yeah. Figured I'd say something in regards to your comment nonetheless. Thought-provoking stuff, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fadelical    7
20 hours ago, anonymous said:

One question: How could the standard timeline be a loop? I mean, After Buried we don't continue with WW1, do we?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't read it good enough. So only Samantha goes back in time, trying to change the future? But how? And when? Because Samantha is demonic insane since she entered the MPD. In Origins she sounds pretty normal. Even when Richthofen entered the Moon Pyramid Device, Samantha's soal in Richthofen's body remains crazy.

 

To answer your question, let's establish that once Buried ends (if you followed the easter egg that puts Richtofen into power), the Apothicons come and consume the world and thus, that's the end of that alternate universe.  The loop, however, occurs when a new alternate universe begins.  When that happens, this new reality follows the standard timeline loop.  So essentially, it's a loop that happens between different realities, not the same reality.  So within the original universe, nothing happens after Buried, because nothing really can after the Apothicons destroy it.

 

Before I answer your next questions, I personally don't think Samanatha is insane in Moon (when we last see her until Origins).  She seems to be out for cruel vengeance towards Richtofen and his associates since he's the one who killed her and her father.  As to why she sounds crazy inside Richtofen's body, that might have something to do with the fact of being inside Richtofen's body.  Plus, a lot of time has occurred between Moon and Origins, so things could have changed for her.

 

And yes, only Samantha went back in time.  As for how, I've heard and seen different theories about how this relates to the easter egg path for Maxis.  If you choose to follow Maxis for the easter egg in Black Ops 2, this is the first step in breaking the loop that plagues the other realities.  In doing this, you give Maxis the power to release Samantha from Richtofen's body where they then both reunite in Agartha.  That's what the rift was; it offered a pathway into Agartha.  Of course, this doesn't prevent that universe's world from ending, as Maxis actually destroys the world himself, but by doing this, he prevents the Apothicons from consuming it #rollsafe.  Once in Agartha, Samantha use her power there to travel to Origins and thus, sets the stage for Black Ops 3.  

 

So in actuality, the old original characters that you kill and collect the souls of aren't the actual Dempsey, Richtofen, Takeo, or Nikolai, but rather, alternate reality versions of them.  The ones we know and love already died in their original timeline either by having the Apothicons consume their world or having Maxis destroy everything.  Both easter eggs choices in Buried end with the Earth getting destroyed, but by different reasons.

 

And in trying to change the future, Samantha actually achieves something greater, which is preventing 115 from ever appearing on Earth (in any known and unknown universe) in the first place after the Apothicons are defeated.

 

@The Meh 

@MysteryMachineX

I will get to discussing with you on those topics later because I have some possible theories and explanations for those instances, but for now I have to eat lol.

Edited by Fadelical
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    330

@Fadelical I've made a timeline of the what you have told. Just a quick drawing on paint, so expect nothing special. Do you see any errors or is this what you mean? Note that there is only one Aether and Dark Aether, which are everywhere the same. I had to draw two "light" aethers because it otherwise would not fit in the picture.

 
Oh, and this might also explain why Richthofen and Samantha were already in the house, this Primis not "sucking up" Richthofen's soal in The Giant

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Fadelical    7

@MysteryMachineX

It's true that loops appear throughout the story in forms of both actual loops and metaphorical representations.  The loop that I discuss is what I believe to be the overarching loop of the whole story that encompasses the multiverse in its entirety up until Richtofen and company break it.

 

@The Meh

From what I understand, you and I both agree that Origins became the first map to depict these four heroes that resembled the four characters (Tank, Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai) in templar garb.  However, the ending of Revelations have led us to believe that these four characters are indeed the same as the Tank, Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai, despite the fact that the ending of Revelations also happens to make us believe that Monty put them in a universe and history that was the result of ending the standard timeline loop.  If the four characters are sent back in time because they were successful in stopping the Apothicons, then how can they be depicted in a universe that's still stuck in the standard timeline loop with the Apoticons (Origins)?  Does this mean that the universe is always doomed to be targeted by the Apothicons, and therefore that represents the loop?  Maybe.  If so, how did this loop even start if the four heroes where born in the late 1800s/early 1900s but they still appear in depictions from hundreds of years ago?  Were the characters originally born around WW1 or were they originally born in the time of the templars?  How did this standard timeline loop come to be then?  Truly, they are the victims of the bootstrap paradox...

 

That could point to Richtofen being evil because all this only happens since he kept the souls and blood vials of the four characters, effectively preventing them from being erased from existence after the defeat of the Apothicons.  Those souls and blood come from universes and alternate realities that shouldn't exist anymore since the Apothicons were defeated.  If Richtofen had not collected those items, then there would be no one to send back and continue this loop.  Therefore, I believe that the presence of both those items are what keeps the overarching timeline of the Apothicons appearing again, causing the loop to continue indefinitely.

 

So in other words, I agree with you, but I just wanted to provide my view on it.

 

@anonymous

That's more or less the timeline I had in mind that represents the loop.  However, with new information from the Meh, I'm led to believe that the overarching loop is bigger than this, since maybe the Apothicons are always destined to attack the earth in all universes regardless of what happens.  If the four heroes were sent back in time to wield the staves only because they were successful in defeating the Apothicons, then why does Origins depict these four heroes in a timeline that still contains the Apothicons, which shouldn't be possible if they were finally defeated.  

 

So I ask people for their thoughts and interpretations on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Meh    77
20 hours ago, Fadelical said:

@The Meh

From what I understand, you and I both agree that Origins became the first map to depict these four heroes that resembled the four characters (Tank, Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai) in templar garb.  However, the ending of Revelations have led us to believe that these four characters are indeed the same as the Tank, Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai, despite the fact that the ending of Revelations also happens to make us believe that Monty put them in a universe and history that was the result of ending the standard timeline loop.  If the four characters are sent back in time because they were successful in stopping the Apothicons, then how can they be depicted in a universe that's still stuck in the standard timeline loop with the Apoticons (Origins)?  Does this mean that the universe is always doomed to be targeted by the Apothicons, and therefore that represents the loop?  Maybe.  If so, how did this loop even start if the four heroes where born in the late 1800s/early 1900s but they still appear in depictions from hundreds of years ago?  Were the characters originally born around WW1 or were they originally born in the time of the templars?  How did this standard timeline loop come to be then?  Truly, they are the victims of the bootstrap paradox...

 

That could point to Richtofen being evil because all this only happens since he kept the souls and blood vials of the four characters, effectively preventing them from being erased from existence after the defeat of the Apothicons.  Those souls and blood come from universes and alternate realities that shouldn't exist anymore since the Apothicons were defeated.  If Richtofen had not collected those items, then there would be no one to send back and continue this loop.  Therefore, I believe that the presence of both those items are what keeps the overarching timeline of the Apothicons appearing again, causing the loop to continue indefinitely.

 

So in other words, I agree with you, but I just wanted to provide my view on it.

 

And I'm glad you did provide your view. I honestly think you've got quite an interesting view on the matter, and seeing your interpretation of it really gets me thinking on it quite a bit. (Also, applying the bootstrap paradox to Zombies does such a work to this for me - makes everything quite a bit clearly understood xP)

 

I'm just wondering now if Blundell's just looking at the community smirking eternally for our confusion at this point... not that he shouldn't, sometimes, but still.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

InfestLithium    520

He did state that we wouldn't fully experience the map for a prolonged 8 months if I'm not mistaked - this entailing all the hidden secrets and such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Meh    77
On 3/13/2017 at 4:58 PM, InfestLithium said:

He did state that we wouldn't fully experience the map for a prolonged 8 months if I'm not mistaked - this entailing all the hidden secrets and such.

 

True, true... but honestly, if we fully experienced ANYTHING in Black Ops III (by your description entailing secrets and such), I feel we'd know things like all of the ciphers by now... and we'd have probably figured out other things as well, surely.

 

I dunno. These things are weird and I quite frankly find the entire thing medial now, the way Blundell wants to do this. Like... I've never felt like Zombies could ever have any underlying feeling of anything arbitrary, and yet it feels like he's causing it to have exactly that. SO MANY THINGS feel disregarded because of the path Black Ops III chose to pave. The story before BOIII feels abandoned, to some degree... all the little details like this aforementioned one in the OP forgotten entirely. It's... just... I can't put words to it. Frustration? Monotony? Meaninglessness? I don't know what to say.

Edited by The Meh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fadelical    7
On 3/17/2017 at 8:34 PM, The Meh said:

I dunno. These things are weird and I quite frankly find the entire thing medial now, the way Blundell wants to do this. Like... I've never felt like Zombies could ever have any underlying feeling of anything arbitrary, and yet it feels like he's causing it to have exactly that. SO MANY THINGS feel disregarded because of the path Black Ops III chose to pave. The story before BOIII feels abandoned, to some degree... all the little details like this aforementioned one in the OP forgotten entirely. It's... just... I can't put words to it. Frustration? Monotony? Meaninglessness? I don't know what to say.

 

For me, the story had a very earthly and humble feel to it when the plot focused on situations happening within one universe.  This happened up until Black Ops 2 where they decided to set up the "larger than life" plotlines of the Shadowman and Apothicons with Mob of the Dead and Origins.  After that, I lost some interest in the story because it made the smaller details of the other maps seem insignificant in comparison to the bigger picture.  

 

Though, it's still fun to draw from the clues found within the old maps and make our own stories behind everything whether or not the Apothicons exist.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MasterZ    0

   No, everything Origins-Revalations never happened. You see, if Sam from Moon was Sam from Origins this would make sense. But no.

 

       You suck Blundell. Origins and it's complicated story.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Meh    77
4 minutes ago, MasterZ said:

   No, everything Origins-Revalations never happened. You see, if Sam from Moon was Sam from Origins this would make sense. But no.

 

       You suck Blundell. Origins and it's complicated story.

 

 

 

I think it's safer to say that the Samantha we know in Moon and the Samantha we know in Origins are entirely different entities/characters within themselves.

 

Origins and its universe are like the most connectable puzzle piece to the main story universe we would know. I think that the reason we know it can't be the same universe would have to be due to the fact that she's American now and our characters were fighting in WW1, which... if you think about it, it doesn't make sense for our young-looking WWII crew to be 30 years older. Honestly, I believe the idea Blundell would be trying to push, for it to make any sense, would be to emphasize that:

 

a. Samantha is definitely not of either universe, but from a universe where it would make sense for her to have an American voice and still have relative omniscience.

b. Each universe within the general multiverse can - AND WILL - be affected by what happens in the main universe our story lies in.

 

I mean... it would explain a lot. For the Earth to be blown up in the main universe, and for the Moon to be blown up in the Der Eisendrache/The Giant universe (yes, they are in the same universe... ZNS might be as well, but I'm not sure about that) is an emphasis on the adverse effects that can happen between universes... although, in retrospect, the Moon blowing up in the DE universe probably was not meant to be a set historical event anyways, and hence would disrupt the entirety of its respective timeline rather badly and adversely affect the universe itself, but... it's a better example than others.

 

Anyways, that's off-track on Samantha more than necessary. Whether or not the Samantha we know is even a Samantha in any of the universes we know is a topic up for debate. But, at this time, we might not have exact knowledge to clarify our reasoning there. So... yes, it is a topic up for debate. But the point still stands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest disappointment with Black Ops 3 was how little they explored Samantha as a character. regardless, I kinda interpreted that first line of hers in the OP as being MotD-esque. Consider that in mob, the completion of the easter egg has us playing through the final cycle in the loop, before it's broken. However, we don't know how many times they have been through it before. We can assume from the intro cutscene and Weasel's dialogue that it's been at least several times, but for all we know we could be on the millionth cycle, or more. or less. We really can't know. 

 

That all being said, in terms of the loop Sam is referring to, I think we can chuck pretty much all of Waw and BO1 and 2 out the window. I interpreted Monty's quotes on Gorod as meaning that all the events of the world war 2 and subsequent green run timeline were just like the "splinters" or fractured random timelines that resulted from whatever "metaphorical hammer" they broke the universe with in Origins. If we can presume that (which is a lot to assume) then the loop would be like 

 

Events depicted in Primis scrap happen, hence there being monuments to primis in origins

fast forward to word war 1, then the giant, then up to revelations where it loops back around

 

that's a bit difficult to swallow, since we usually think of a loop as involving the same set of characters, but for Primis to be the same people as the origins 4, there would have to be a lot of time travel post-revelations, and they would have had to lose their memories, so occam's razor demands that the situation is more like the one you see in the third harry potter film.

 

for those who don't know, harry gets into trouble and gets saved by a mysterious stranger. In order to find out who saved him, he goes back in time to witness the events again, but he realizes nobody is coming to save his past-self so he steps in and does the saving himself. So it's like a grandfather paradox all the way down the line, with each version of himself saving the previous version sequentially. The multiverse doesn't really allow for a grandfather paradox to take place, so I guess you'd call it a "rolling loop." 

 

so O4 set #1 (abbreviated O41) are at Origins, they do all of their business up until revelations, and then they become the "first" Primis. i say first in quotes because there was already evidence of a previous Primis's existence in O41's journey, so you run into the "chicken or the egg" paradox. Still, O41 gets sent back to become primis, and then they probably live out their lives in ancient times and die of old age or whatever. then, O4 #2 comes along centuries later and finds the evidence of O41, then O42 reaches revelations and becomes the next Primis, and it goes on and on like that forever. So it's like a "rolling loop" in that the same events repeat forever, but it's not always the same "version" of the characters going through the motions like it is in MotD.

 

at least that was my interpretation of it. 

 

That being said, Samantha having "outside" knowledge of the loop is really intriguing. She's a lot like Sans from Undertale, since that dude has knowledge of all of the versions of himself and such. It might just be that Monty's perfect world is outside of time or in a higher dimension, and he's clued sam, eddy, and maxis in on the grand scheme of things. If that were the case though, it could be the case that from Monty's perspective, he's just chilling in heaven and once every couple of years he has to defend against the exact same recurring apothicon onslaught. So sam, maxis, monty, and certain richtofens know the exact "chain of events" and are determined to ensure that each individual loop comes full circle. Because in this case, the loop resuming as it does forever results in the apothicons never winning and the universe surviving. Allowing the loop to break (rather than be closed) opens the universe up to the vulnerability that comes with uncertainty, although in the next game we might see them trying to erase the need for the loop in the first place, "destroying" or "eliminating" the loop, and removing the need to keep "closing" or sustaining it. 

 

edit: i say that under the assumption that monty and the inhabitants of his world aren't bound by any loop, as that seems in contrast with his nearly-omnipotent nature.

 

edit 2: this is consistent with Blundell's attempts to retcon pretty much the whole Jimmy Z section of the story. Even the addition of the keeper to the new ascension loading screen is giving me that kind of vibe. 

 

Don't worry, i'm only smoking 4 blunts at the same time right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×