Jump to content
Shackel

Does anyone else feel like retconning all of BO2 Zombies was... kinda messed up?

Recommended Posts

Shackel    0

I mean, just from a creative standpoint, is anyone else rubbed the wrong way by the retcon from Buried->Origins? Around Origins I'd started dropping out of video games and, through that, the Zombies sub-franchise, but the more I heard and read about it, the less I even wanted to keep an eye on it. It feels like to me that instead of continuing the story from Zielinski, almost all of it was thrown clean into the dumpster and replaced with a completely different story--no, an entirely different mythology--that just pays lip service to the old storyline.

That just feels messed up to me in ways I can scarcely describe: just the decision to throw away everything someone else worked on for your own tale. I mean, I don't really want to say anything about Blundell because that crosses into personal attacks, but... really? Instead of anything from the previous timeline, Mob of the Dead coincidentally remains canon?

I don't know, it's difficult to put in words beyond a general feeling of disappointment and faint disgust. Does anyone else feel the same way about this, or have I just missed something explained in the months after Origins?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.

 

They mention the old stuff, and they try to connect things, but that's mostly to save face or wrap things up. TranZit, Die Rise, and Buried are nearly completely ignored. Honestly, I'm a bit offended that they don't make an appearance whatsoever in the new level. Seems like a conspicuous oversight, and I can't help but think it was a conscious decision that those three were excluded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shackel    0
3 minutes ago, MysteryMachineX said:

Yes.

 

They mention the old stuff, and they try to connect things, but that's mostly to save face or wrap things up. TranZit, Die Rise, and Buried are nearly completely ignored. Honestly, I'm a bit offended that they don't make an appearance whatsoever in the new level. Seems like a conspicuous oversight, and I can't help but think it was a conscious decision that those three were excluded.

To an extent it feels like even more than just BO2 was ignored. Until this point with all the non-BO2 maps thrown all over the place, there were scarcely any real connections to the WaW-BO past beyond the characters themselves as far as I know. In fact the only pre-Lead Blundell map that really looks like you need to play to understand what in the world was happening plot-wise was... Origins.

There's something about the "I'm going to tell you how this all really began" line from Samantha, in particular, that instinctively annoys me because it almost sounds like it's explicitly referencing that everything before was something. And that something is "non-existent because this story's better".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, they haven't abandoned everything. And just to point out one thing, they added the Buried round end music in Revelations as a homage to Buried. They didn't really touch on a lot of the stuff Zielinski did, because it didn't need expanding. The stuff that was good he left alone, and the bad they tried to fix. Blundell has stated himself that he intends this as one whole story, every map cannon. And honestly, to me the significance of Tranzit, Die Rise, and Buried was already self-evident and not needing expanding. But on top of that they are making the comics expanding on the Tranzit crew.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's what I think they've done. Jason himself says that he hates repeating himself, so why would he reiterate all the good that Zielinski did when those that really invest themselves in the story already know it? They fixed what was broken, filled in tons of gaps in the story, and made a sh*tton of new story too.

17 minutes ago, Shackel said:

There's something about the "I'm going to tell you how this all really began" line from Samantha, in particular, that instinctively annoys me because it almost sounds like it's explicitly referencing that everything before was something. And that something is "non-existent because this story's better".

Non-existent? If that really was true, I would be furious. But luckily, that really isn't true. It is all cannon (okay, not sure about Dead Ops, but that is really hard to argue over), and relevant. Hell, they are explaining that damn BO1 Nacht der Untoten loading screen! If that isn't tying up loose ends, I don't know what is.

 

Well, to each his own. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and this is mine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shackel    0

What, like the loose ends of Moon, the loose ends of Buried, the kind of important loose end of the story itself continuing on in some fashion, rather than coming crashing to a halt, having most of it "canon" in the sense that it was seen in a glimpse before erased IC? How is following the timeline even loosely retreading old ground?

Or have I missed what happened to the original crew after Moon and the New Crew after Buried, and that was just explained somewhere I hadn't seen? Are the comics, at least, about what happened after that point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Shackel said:

What, like the loose ends of Moon

Admitted loose end that I hope is cleared up.

30 minutes ago, Shackel said:

the loose ends of Buried,

What part? Split ending that really threw a wrench in everything and pretty much ended the story regardless of which you chose. There really isn't anything you could do at that point.

32 minutes ago, Shackel said:

the kind of important loose end of the story itself continuing on in some fashion, rather than coming crashing to a halt, having most of it "canon" in the sense that it was seen in a glimpse before erased IC? How is following the timeline even loosely retreading old ground?

Let me raise the question, what would you do? One option, world literally ends. Other option, Richtofen essencialy becomes a f*cking god. Where do you go from there? Agartha is really the only option, and without the implementation of a multiverse of some sort, that would be permanent. Actually, there is ONE other option, that being going back in time and LITERALLY erasing the story they have done. The exact thing you don't want. I'm not really familiar with what "IC" is. In character? And nothing was really erased. Hell, that is the sh*t that f*cked everything up! Monty downright states that the first time the universe split was when Group 935 used the teleporter, and every time after when a teleporter was used. An explanation of the Ascention Group was given, the addition of Division 9 clarifies a lot, hell now we even know why Richtofen ended up on the f*cking moon when he teleported! We found out what happened to Gersch and Yuri, we found out the identity of the Vril-ya, we found out what Agartha is, we found out what the Rift is, we learned how the MTDs work, we found out so much it's ridiculous! People keep saying that Blundell's story is sh*t because he keeps spoon-feeding it to the community. He really isn't. Sure a tiny bit is in your face, but people are ignoring all the rest of it that they have done!

47 minutes ago, Shackel said:

Or have I missed what happened to the original crew after Moon and the New Crew after Buried, and that was just explained somewhere I hadn't seen? Are the comics, at least, about what happened after that point?

The fate of the crew on the Moon is unknown as of now. The comics will be talking about the Tranzit crew, but we don't know at what point this takes place. There are supposed to be at least six comics, and they could all be about different loose ends and not one big one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shackel    0
22 hours ago, AetherialVoices said:

Admitted loose end that I hope is cleared up.

What part? Split ending that really threw a wrench in everything and pretty much ended the story regardless of which you chose. There really isn't anything you could do at that point.

Let me raise the question, what would you do? One option, world literally ends. Other option, Richtofen essencialy becomes a f*cking god. Where do you go from there? Agartha is really the only option, and without the implementation of a multiverse of some sort, that would be permanent. Actually, there is ONE other option, that being going back in time and LITERALLY erasing the story they have done. The exact thing you don't want. I'm not really familiar with what "IC" is. In character? And nothing was really erased. Hell, that is the sh*t that f*cked everything up! Monty downright states that the first time the universe split was when Group 935 used the teleporter, and every time after when a teleporter was used. An explanation of the Ascention Group was given, the addition of Division 9 clarifies a lot, hell now we even know why Richtofen ended up on the f*cking moon when he teleported! We found out what happened to Gersch and Yuri, we found out the identity of the Vril-ya, we found out what Agartha is, we found out what the Rift is, we learned how the MTDs work, we found out so much it's ridiculous! People keep saying that Blundell's story is sh*t because he keeps spoon-feeding it to the community. He really isn't. Sure a tiny bit is in your face, but people are ignoring all the rest of it that they have done!

The fate of the crew on the Moon is unknown as of now. The comics will be talking about the Tranzit crew, but we don't know at what point this takes place. There are supposed to be at least six comics, and they could all be about different loose ends and not one big one.

I feel like you're missing the point and gravely, at that. First off I'm 90% sure at the end of Moon that exact same question would apply "One option, world literally ends. Other option, Richtofen's a god" is literally the end of Moon where the only options were, unless the world blows up, Richtofen's a god. Not to even mention the fact that Richtofen or Maxis being some partial demigod gaining their strength would easily allow for the exact same kind of stories to happen involving Agartha and even these random Lovecraftian monsters. It's called a villain. A final boss.

But you know what point you're really missing? The entire reason this seems annoying?

CONTINUITY.

The CONTINUITY was erased. No matter which way you stretch it, instead of a consistent continuity with either the TranZit crew(you can even still have the alternate universe thing be prevalent with a God!Maxis and God!Richtofen just battling it out in Agartha directly instead) or, you know, the Moon crew, you have a completely new original universe out of nowhere, which goes back to another completely new, different universe to change the completely new, different timeline with a completely new, different mythology. The past games didn't matter. Their plotlines, stories, and characters were all meaningless beyond some cheap references in the final map.

That's what rubs me the wrong way: nothing before Origins mattered. Even though this kind of plot could've been done while keeping continuity, a conscious decision was made to throw every storyline(except Mob of the Dead, naturally) out of the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Shackel said:

That's what rubs me the wrong way: nothing before Origins mattered. Even though this kind of plot could've been done while keeping continuity, a conscious decision was made to throw every storyline(except Mob of the Dead, naturally) out of the window.

By that logic everything Origins-Revelations doesn't matter either! I don't understand why so many people seem to miss the fact that it is really all relevant. And just to point something out, the continuity wasn't really the best to begin with. Particularly the timeline. The whole thing was riddled with plot-holes, contradictions, and downright unexplained paradoxes. That's the kind of sh*t that led to the damn Multiverse Theory. But, this has really started to get a bit off topic. I suppose the only way to end this going back and forth is to agree to disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greer    9

I think you're all missing the fact that the comic book is actually picking up after the Buried ending, and so far has implied that the Maxis ending of Buried is the ending which is canon. It isn't forgotten, but Blundell wanted to do something with the story and clearly couldn't see the way forward with the Buried ending, so took it in a different path with Origins. I honestly love the Origins story, it brought up so many old parts of the story while still progressing forward. 

So to answer your question, I don't think you're asking the right question xD. They didn't retcon anything, it's all still canon and relevant. Richtofen will be going back to meet the TranZit crew in the comic soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Slade    270
On 10-9-2016 at 3:00 AM, AetherialVoices said:

 They didn't really touch on a lot of the stuff Zielinski did, because it didn't need expanding.

Stuhlinger's book never got explained.

Zombie sounds from Die Rise never got explained.

Buried's wisp never got explained.

Maxis' endgame never got explained.

Russman, Stuhlingers, Misty and Marlton's backstory never got explained.

The Flesh never got explained.

Marlton in the bunker never got explained.

Broken Arrow never got explained.

(Mending the) Rift never got explained.

Not even mentioning the fact so much shit got retconned it isn't even funny anymore.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Slade said:

Stuhlinger's book never got explained.

Zombie sounds from Die Rise never got explained.

Buried's wisp never got explained.

Maxis' endgame never got explained.

Russman, Stuhlingers, Misty and Marlton's backstory never got explained.

The Flesh never got explained.

Marlton in the bunker never got explained.

Broken Arrow never got explained.

(Mending the) Rift never got explained.

Not even mentioning the fact so much shit got retconned it isn't even funny anymore.

Valid points, and my hope is that these things will be explained in the comic books. We know that it will focus on the TranZit 4 and Broken Arrow, so a lot of the other stuff will probably be expanded on as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doppelgänger    150

I strongly agree. I really don't like the way Jason has basically stamped his name on the mode to tell his own story. I don't have a problem with him telling a story, but like you mentioned with Samantha saying, "I'm going to tell you how this all REALLY began..." it seems like he's telling us to forget about the old story and focus on the new one. 

Nothing really got answered in this Season. Yes we got answers to events that transpired during Jason's story, but nothing to continue the old story. I hear arguments that Jason does answer questions from Jimmy's story, but having multiple universes and saying "This happened on 'X' day," it becomes redundant. Because we're talking about a multiverse. I'm just glad this story is over. I want Jimmy back. Zombies was safer in his hands. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NaBrZHunter    491

There are aspects of this whole new development that no one here but Aethereal seems to have a grasp on. While I am one of BO3's most intense story critics, I have come to appreciate some very subtle Intel that no one I know so far has even thought of yet. Sequentiality is  also unimportant. There is nothing wrong with storyline jumping from the marines to the O4  go the N4 to the Alc4 to the Origins. No matter what any of you personally decide you don't like, it's it's there, it's valid and it's canon. None of you are qualified to say otherwise. 

 
Strong tones aside, my friends, this storyline is the frayed end of a hemp rope. Good luck tying off every part in one single game. We have much more to learn and MUCH to theorize upon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    340
On ‎10‎-‎9‎-‎2016 at 3:00 AM, AetherialVoices said:

Hell, they are explaining that damn BO1 Nacht der Untoten loading screen! If that isn't tying up loose ends, I don't know what is.

Wait....what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

10 hours ago, anonymous said:

Wait....what?

Although it isn't absolutely solid evidence there are some connections we can draw. "The numbers Mason, what do they mean?" We see the numbers coming out of the gateway/doorway on the loading screen as well as in the "Five" teleporters. I'm not sure if anyone else has quite pieced this together yet, but the Keeper language is made up of numbers and punctuation. Also, the Keepers, as well as a select few of their artifacts, have these symbols (primarily consisting of numbers) floating around them as some sort of aura. Now it is seeming quite possible that the scientists in "Five" were trying to recreate some of the technologies of the Keepers. But where did they learn of all this? Operation Paperclip. Where might the Germans, namely Group 935, have found remnants of this specific technology? Quite possibly Nacht der Untoten. That is one possible explanation for why there are signs all over Nacht saying that it is a restricted area.

 

Obviously, a lot of this is conjecture and theory, but it does make sense and tie up some loose ends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×