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Monty is the Devil.

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AlphaSnake    83

Dr. Monty was known by several other names. The Great Dragon, The Beast, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Satan.

 

Quoted from The Shadowman.

 

Even I'm finding it hard to believe they actually put that in there.

 

Regards Alpha.

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This is interesting, but right now we've got two people whispering in our ears. I'm waiting for the ending so we can see who is telling the truth. Last time this happened, they were both liars. (Maxis and Richtofen).

 

These are the possibilities I think might happen.

 

A: Monty is basically God, and Shadowman is basically Satan.

B: Monty is basically Satan, and Shadowman is basically God.

C: Monty is basically Satan, and Shadowman is trying to overthrow him.

D: Monty is basically God, and Shadowman is trying to overthrow him.

E: Monty is both God and Devil, and Shadowman is trying to rebel against him.

F: Monty and Shadowman might be reincarnations of the Germans?

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Doppelgänger    150
1 hour ago, TizzyT135 said:

What do all these names have in common?

They are all biblical names for the Devil. There are other names for him in the bible, these are the ones that they decided to go with.

In response to the initial topic however, I'm very much against this idea. I really doubt that Monty is the Devil. He definitely isn't God, of course. But he isn't evil.

For one, we've basically been given the rundown of things. Keepers = Good. Apothicons = Evil.

Two, we've already been shown that the Shadow Man isn't a good guy. 

I'm sure it's safe to assume that the Shadow Man is lying. He's done it for personal gain before. 

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Agreed. My theory is that Monty is God, along with the shadow man. And then they split in half. That analogy Monty made, about cutting a worm in half and both halves living independently for a "short" period of time until one end dies, or both ends. Sounded like he was talking from personal experience with that. So maybe Monty was god, and the shadow man was god's other half, the darker half. And like kami from dragon ball split his negative energy and piccolo spawned from that energy, maybe the shadow man spawned from Monty's negative energy. And this is further reinforced by the similarities between the keepers and apothicons in appearance. The keepers being the light half while the apothicons are the darker half.

So with this logic, Monty would still be both god, and the Devil, along with the shadow man as well being they are the same being just ying and yang from one another. One cannot exist with out the other.

But yeah, shadow man was more then likely lying, or at least exaggerating the truth, or withholding some from you when he calls Monty the devil. And it is safe to say that both Monty and the shadow man are hiding even more from you in fear of the characters siding with the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Call of Duty Zombies mobile app

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We know for a fact that the Shadowman is a liar, and I see no reason that that would change. I also find it exceedingly illogical for Treyarch to make Monty a liar because it would invalidate too much storyline we were given. That doesn't mean I trust him, it just means I think he is honest.

 

I have been pouring over the new wisps and radios trying to understand the multiverse that Treyarch created. The only problem is I have seemingly figured it out, but I can't fully confirm it until we know exactly what Monty and the Shadowman are. My theory at the moment (this will be more of an outline because of this being a reply and not a full post) is this: There were two Aetherial entities known as "Keepers" or the "Original Keepers", these two were Monty and an uncorrupted Shadowman. These two created several universes that were collectively referred to as "creation". In this process, they (most likely inadvertently) created the Dark Aether beneath creation. The Dark Aether corrupted the minds of some of the entities inside creation, as well as the Shadowman. The Shadowman then took the Summoning Key to bring/merge the life of all dimensions, causing indescribable chaos and a perfect feeding ground for the Apothicons. The Great War is fought inside of creation, Keepers win, Apothicons banished to Dark Aether, etc. Then in one particular universe, Group 935 starts messing around with teleporters and starts an uncontrollable chain reaction of splitting the timeline of that universe.

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Monopoly Mac    39

Shadowman keeps saying Monty is a bad guy and whatever but I don't believe him. I think he's only right on one thing. Our characters are gonna fade away from existence after everything is set right. This might make Monty a liar but I still don't see him as evil even if thats true. Pragmatic perhaps.

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Zelkova    6

Shadowman is also the one who started this apocalypse. I believe in all honesty based on what we know right now is this is a case of a Lesser of two evils scenario. That being said Monty also said that the Shadowman was once a really nice guy and his friend before the Apothicans got to him and screwed him up. Now he is their messenger and Harbinger of Destruction.

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Mattzs    10

I have been meaning to write a massive thread about Monty’s identity for a while now. I got the idea after reading Reddit user, AceCheeze's post on Reddit linking Monty to the red-eyed zombies in MOTD. However, I didn’t get the time to put together the one big thread. (https://www.reddit.com/r/CODZombies/comments/4tfz0v/theory_dr_monty_is_evil_and_controls_the_redeyed/)  

So I will post a modified version of what I found a while back in the Reddit thread above.

Dr. Monty and his gumball factory gave me a very Steampunk/Victorian Vibe (Late 1800-searly 1900s) so I decided to look at nineteenth-century depictions of Satan. Interestingly enough, one article I found states "'In the 19th century, the publication of Goethe’s Mephistopheles in Faust and Mark Twain’s Mysterious Stranger influenced artists to portray Satan as much more of "a sly, cunning, dandyish type of figure," as Barryte says. "Instead of scaring people into sin and intimidating them, he now uses persuasion." And he has to look appropriate for the part: more weasely than bestial. In the exhibit, this trickster side of Satan is seen in a bronze statue depicting him as Mephistopheles, by the artist Ude"'(http://www.fastcodesign.com/3034309/the-changing-face-of-satan-artistic-depictions-of-the-devil-1500-to-today).

This description of Satan sounds much like Monty's MO. Monty seems to be very cunning and manipulative. Not to mention the article describes Satan as a "Weasel". Motd Anyone? Furthermore, Isomniac and The Beebat both made the connection to making a deal with the devil (Side note: These were two Reddit users who pointed this out in the thread). This is extremely important because, in the map Kino, there is a poster for the German Legend and Novel, Faust (a blatant connection to Richtofen and Maxis’ heritage). Update: The poster is back again in the Kino section of Revelations. Wikipedia's summary of Faust is as follows "Faust is the protagonist of a classic German legend. He is a scholar who is highly successful yet dissatisfied with his life, which leads him to make a pact with the Devil, exchanging his soul for unlimited knowledge and worldly pleasures".

There is a demon in the story of Faust known as Mephistopheles. And once again, directly quoting from Wikipedia "Although Mephistopheles appears to Faustus as a demon – a worker for Lucifer – critics claim that he does not search for men to corrupt, but comes to serve and ultimately collect the souls of those who are already damned. Farnham explains, "Nor does Mephistopheles first appear to Faustus as a devil who walks up and down on earth to tempt and corrupt any man encountered. He appears because he senses in Faustus’ magical summons that Faustus is already corrupt, that indeed he is already 'in danger to be damned".

The collection of damned souls by Mephistopheles is reminiscent to the Shadowman and Monty’s collection of souls. Now that we know the Shadowman and Monty were once allies, I wonder if the Shadowman was Monty’s Mephistopheles, or collector of souls. The Shadowman does wear the mark of the beast which even in Zombies is three 6s. Could this be a symbol of his former allegiance?

Furthermore, Monty appears in the Map Revelations which is the book of the Bible that deals with the end times and the coming Apocalypse of which Satan plays a major role. I also find it interesting that the story of the 2.0 crew began in the map called Origins. What is a synonym for Origins? Genesis. So we have a map of Genesis and a map of Revelations.

 

And finally, two users from Reddit (The_Beebat and XPLJESUS) both messaged me saying that Monty might be Baphomet, the Satanic Deity that the Templars were accused of worshiping. Unfortunately, I am new to Reddit and I tried messaging them back asking for more info, but I am not sure if my messages were sent. It looks like they were sent in my inbox, but I digress. I know Baphomet has been mentioned on the forum here before.  (The_Beebat linked me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet). Considering the connection between the Templars and the Keepers/Apotithcons, I think this piece of information if very useful!

Now I do recognize that the Shadowman may be an alternate version of Monty, so some of this may have to be revised. Anyway, that is my two cents. I am hoping at the very least Monty is an entirely separate entity than the Keepers/Apothicons because I really find the power struggle between energy-devouring-interdimensional beings and the Devil interesting.  

 

Edited by Mattzs

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Tattoo247    118

I don't see why it's so hard to believe, demonic presence has been in the game since the beginning. Monty to me is the devil, he is a smooth talker, plays the role of a helper, and has basically guided us the whole time.

I think the shadow man is another type of evil, as old as Monty himself, the difference being Monty likes the way things were pre-w@w, whIle shadow man wants to create a new hell. 

We are literally back to MoTD, we either break thus cycle and get a new ruler of darkness, or keep things the way they are. I only hope this time there is a real ending, none of that safe "it's whatever you choose" BS they gave us in bo2.

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MikeCirka    10

I think what we're dealing with in Zombies now is the dev's using our expectations against us. We inherently don't trust Monty, because the people we trust in Zombies have ALWAYS betrayed us. So even when we basically get confirmation that Monty is God himself and has been the one helping us out since he decided to drop a mystery box in Nacht, we STILL think he's just waiting to pull the rug out. Considering that we can assume Monty is God now (Excluding 115 induced paranoia), I think we're dealing with a simple good/bad/ugly scenario. Christianity meets Lovecraft. Monty and Shadowman were once friends, and are probably beings of similar power (Either both are gods, or like in the Bible, Shadowman(Lucifer) was one of the first of Monty's(God's) creations). However Shadowman was corrupted by the Apothican's: The ugly. The Great Old Ones. Creatures from beyond Monty's universe that EAT universes. Once corrupted Shadowman basically becomes the modern depiction of the devil: Well-dressed, Handsome, soft-spoken... But lying with every word, and leading you further towards damnation. Also only a figure head for the less talkative horror terrors he serves. The community basically knows all this, but all it took was one sentence from the Shadowman (playing on our paranoia and mistrust) to turn us against Monty, even when we KNOW how hard SM lies and manipulates.

 

On a side note, all of this has me remembering something that's always in the back of my head... "Primis will fail". Could this be why? Will we get all the way to the end, and stumble because the devil's silver tongue led us astray? Just musing.

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Castun50    16
On 9/9/2016 at 5:07 AM, AlphaSnake said:

Dr. Monty was known by several other names. The Great Dragon, The Beast, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Satan.

 

Quoted from The Shadowman.

 

Even I'm finding it hard to believe they actually put that in there.

 

Regards Alpha.

 

You must be new if you dont remember back in what 08 @AlphaSnake BIG devil post on the pack a punch mapping of guns. I very much enjoyed this thought and I must say all the nods to the bible, the devil, good vs evil, monty is either god or devil or both. but either way i want confirmation from treyarch he is definitely a deity though.

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NaBrZHunter    488
On 9/22/2016 at 6:44 PM, Castun50 said:

 

You must be new if you dont remember back in what 08 @AlphaSnake BIG devil post on the pack a punch mapping of guns. I very much enjoyed this thought and I must say all the nods to the bible, the devil, good vs evil, monty is either god or devil or both. but either way i want confirmation from treyarch he is definitely a deity though.

WTF...first of all, Monty is not God. LOL! Secondly, it is literally impossible for him to be both God and the devil. What most people seem to forget is that the devil is not an equal of God. The devil is an equal of Michael the Archangel. @AlphaSnake is not an authority on the matter.

 

Just saying, if you're going to reference beings from Judeo-Christian origin, it's best you get your facts straight.

 

Also, whether you consider Christianity to be truth or fiction, if you're going to make theories connected to it, get familiar with the facts just like you would the Cthulhu mythos. The devil literally has never once beat God at anything. And since God is at the beginning and at the end of time - forsooth, He is the beginning and the end, Himself (try to wrap your mind around that) - the devil was already defeated and damned for all eternity before God even created him. 

 

I'll be honest, I don't speak up much out here, but while I try to keep things lore-oriented, I am still a person of strong faith and just as you would not speak with disrespect towards another race or lifestyle, I'm going to also request that if you are going to speak of mine, you do some research into the being who is dearest to my heart in all creation (God) and not suggest that He could be the same with the devil.

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InfestLithium    495

So, is no one going to mention how Monty has explicitly stated in Revelations how much he's played the role of God? Remember the quote about him being a "happiness app" to see how people were feeling, or the quote regarding all the requests people have that get sent to him (some even in the form of letters to fucking Santa Claus)?

 

Or does everyone forget those kind of quotes exist?

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NaBrZHunter    488
6 hours ago, InfestLithium said:

So, is no one going to mention how Monty has explicitly stated in Revelations how much he's played the role of God? Remember the quote about him being a "happiness app" to see how people were feeling, or the quote regarding all the requests people have that get sent to him (some even in the form of letters to fucking Santa Claus)?

 

Or does everyone forget those kind of quotes exist?

He seems to have a god complex, for sure. Though, so does the devil. lol

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Tattoo247    118

I cant help to ask if Monty is in fact the Devil, what purpose does having a endless loop where it keeps messing up his work? I guess I just imagined a Devil to be more.....consistent in torture, pain, and all the other good stuff we think about. This just traps 4 people in a loop that just happens to effect a few other characters...doesn't seem worth it for such a highly intelligent evil entity to focus on 4 random people and makes this big waste of "time".

 

Also it runs the risk of the loop actually getting broken, he could have easily been over thrown, had the Primus group listened to the Shadowman instead, the games Devils play have never been this risky, he is supposed to have an advantage any time there is a bet or game deal with Satan...

 

Then another thought, maybe he is both God and the Devil. Was it not the keepers job to balance good and evil or am I thinking of someone else? He could just as easily be an all powerful, balance of Good and Evil.

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NaBrZHunter    488
23 hours ago, Tattoo247 said:

Then another thought, maybe he is both God and the Devil. Was it not the keepers job to balance good and evil or am I thinking of someone else? He could just as easily be an all powerful, balance of Good and Evil.

 

Again, God and the devil are not balanced. If you are going to make connections to beings acknowledged by Judeo-Christian beliefs, you should know that the devil is pathetically unequal to God. The devil is no more balanced with God as a gnat is with a black hole. God created the angel who was known as Lucifer, who was so dissolutioned with his own pride and narcissism that he thought he would take God's throne, for which he was cast from Heaven to wait for his ultimate annihilation. To suggest that God and the devil could possibly be the same is preposterous. That would not be a balance - the evil would be so vastly outweighed that it would literally cease to exist. 

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Castun50    16
On 9/24/2016 at 2:19 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

WTF...first of all, Monty is not God. LOL! Secondly, it is literally impossible for him to be both God and the devil. What most people seem to forget is that the devil is not an equal of God. The devil is an equal of Michael the Archangel. @AlphaSnake is not an authority on the matter.

 

Just saying, if you're going to reference beings from Judeo-Christian origin, it's best you get your facts straight.

 

Also, whether you consider Christianity to be truth or fiction, if you're going to make theories connected to it, get familiar with the facts just like you would the Cthulhu mythos. The devil literally has never once beat God at anything. And since God is at the beginning and at the end of time - forsooth, He is the beginning and the end, Himself (try to wrap your mind around that) - the devil was already defeated and damned for all eternity before God even created him. 

 

I'll be honest, I don't speak up much out here, but while I try to keep things lore-oriented, I am still a person of strong faith and just as you would not speak with disrespect towards another race or lifestyle, I'm going to also request that if you are going to speak of mine, you do some research into the being who is dearest to my heart in all creation (God) and not suggest that He could be the same with the devil.

 

with that said so i dont cross a line or something, monty is A god, i am not going on saying he is god or devil cause as you said that is impossible, however it IS NOT impossible when it comes to treyarch. To be honest if i was a game maker I would have made monty god/devil. you got shadow man (possible devil and possibly a side of monty depending on how you view it) who is said to have been montys best friend. I think it could have happened. honestly I am a man of Christian religion and I dont care what treyarch did with their game, i didnt write it. However if you are that offended by my reply.....well im sorry you feel that way. I am posting my opinion. It is possible. But that as how I think of it. I was not speaking of any disrespect as this is a video game I did not create. For all you know in the universe of zombies he is not the beginning of anything as this is a fictional game not a non fictional game. so respectively I am going to post MY opinion. if you dont agree with it, well i didnt put a gun to your head and make you read it or reply to it. so please be RESPECTFUL of others and how they view a game that person did not create. unless you did work with treyarch and you care to post what you intended it to be as, as I see it, the devil has been brought up multiple times, lucifers name is in the game, cant have the devil without the good lord. please check your facts. that is all i am going to say on that. if you are religious god bless yall, if your not, well what you believe in is up to you. #americanfreedom

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Castun50    16
On 9/25/2016 at 3:51 PM, Tattoo247 said:

I cant help to ask if Monty is in fact the Devil, what purpose does having a endless loop where it keeps messing up his work? I guess I just imagined a Devil to be more.....consistent in torture, pain, and all the other good stuff we think about. This just traps 4 people in a loop that just happens to effect a few other characters...doesn't seem worth it for such a highly intelligent evil entity to focus on 4 random people and makes this big waste of "time".

 

Also it runs the risk of the loop actually getting broken, he could have easily been over thrown, had the Primus group listened to the Shadowman instead, the games Devils play have never been this risky, he is supposed to have an advantage any time there is a bet or game deal with Satan...

 

Then another thought, maybe he is both God and the Devil. Was it not the keepers job to balance good and evil or am I thinking of someone else? He could just as easily be an all powerful, balance of Good and Evil.

 

Definitely makes you wonder about the "2nd EE ending" if it exists. I am very curious about it because Monty seems to be a god like figure, who can make worlds. whether he is god or the devil or both will surprise me I suppose. but I am leaning now towards monty being the devil though he just doesnt seem like it. It doesnt make sense but it does. his style is very....intelligent to an extent. he can build worlds but at times its like he isnt able to see somethings. which is where his other half comes into play. (lucifer or god?) Its very interesting what treyarch has created. especially since it all started off as Nazi (enemies to the jewish ((another religion)) zombies. these 8 years have been great. I am super sad if its the end especially since this is the "last map". Even though they kind of walked away from the facts and fun little history easter eggs.

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RadZakpak    85

Personally, I don't really think Monty is necessarily "Evil" or "Good". I think we're looking at this in a too black-and-white manner. He's said before that free will was his idea. And he's constantly referencing free-will mockingly, like it was a big mistake. He's an omnipotent being who planted the seeds for humanity, and decided to give us free-will. And what do you know, we mucked it up. Monty isn't really like a God in a Western sense, where he is everything good and there is an evil which is everything evil. He is one being, with his own flaws and his own desires. The Shadowman wasn't lying when he said Monty is referred to as the Devil, Lucifer, Satan, etc. But he's also God, Allah, every God ever.

 

Basically he wanted to help us. He put out the "app" asking if people were happy. He created power-ups and sent perk machines to help the crew fight off the apothicons. But he's stubborn and egotistical, like the average human. He wants a perfect little world where he is in control. So he makes the house, and enlists Primis, pawns in his game, to gather versions of themselves, children, to populate his little world. At the end of the Revelations EE, Sophia and Maxis leave, and Monty sends Primis away. It's just him and the children. Finally, Monty can rest knowing he controls this dimension. THe children we've seen, and maybe even potentially other children we haven't seen, populate this world. They are innocent, pure, and will not question him, or fight, or cause war. That is his goal. Total control, even if it is over more simple-minded individuals.

 

That's just how I feel about Monty. I can see his perspective, humans cause so many problems and he regrets giving us free will. He is what humanity interpreted as both God and the Devil, in one being.

 

The thing is, he is not much better than the Shadowman. Monty just wants humanity to be under his rule. Shadowman wants to destroy Monty's perfect little world, and assimilate everyone for the Apothicons. Conflict of interest is all it is.

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NaBrZHunter    488
18 hours ago, Castun50 said:

 

with that said so i dont cross a line or something, monty is A god, i am not going on saying he is god or devil cause as you said that is impossible, however it IS NOT impossible when it comes to treyarch. To be honest if i was a game maker I would have made monty god/devil. you got shadow man (possible devil and possibly a side of monty depending on how you view it) who is said to have been montys best friend. I think it could have happened. honestly I am a man of Christian religion and I dont care what treyarch did with their game, i didnt write it. However if you are that offended by my reply.....well im sorry you feel that way. I am posting my opinion. It is possible. But that as how I think of it. I was not speaking of any disrespect as this is a video game I did not create. For all you know in the universe of zombies he is not the beginning of anything as this is a fictional game not a non fictional game. so respectively I am going to post MY opinion. if you dont agree with it, well i didnt put a gun to your head and make you read it or reply to it. so please be RESPECTFUL of others and how they view a game that person did not create. unless you did work with treyarch and you care to post what you intended it to be as, as I see it, the devil has been brought up multiple times, lucifers name is in the game, cant have the devil without the good lord. please check your facts. that is all i am going to say on that. if you are religious god bless yall, if your not, well what you believe in is up to you. #americanfreedom

Do not confuse intensity of tone with disrespect. My response was entirely in line and respectful, if intense. 

Where you are mistaken however, is in your phrasing. Treyarch can make Monty a "god" or "deity" and simultaneously a "devil" if they so pleased, but not "God." There is a difference. By his very character, Monty has already 100% disproved the concept that he is God. 

 

Also, you say "can't have the devil without the Good Lord" and I entirely agree, and have oft made such an argument. People tend to be of a persuasion that "the devil" is responsible for such and such an incident but like to pretend that there is no God when such a concept is literally impossible. On the other hand, creating a lore like the Cthulhu Mythos fully abandons the idea of "the devil" and creates for itself, instead, an independent pantheon of deities of different origin which can, within a fictional lore, be designed however the author sees fit. This is not the case with God Almighty of Judeo-Christianity and Lucifer, however, as the very things that make them who they are force them to be separate and for Lucifer to be pitifully helpless before the power of God and for God to be wholly and entirely perfect and righteous. To establish the character of God within a lore or mythos as being compromised or in any way imperfect nullifies any claim that He is God, therefore, making whoever you declare in the lore to be 'God' as being rather a 'god,' and, as God created Lucifer and not 'a god' therefore the 'devil' you have created in your lore is no longer Lucifer himself, as his existence literally cannot be, as God does not exist. You may create 'a devil' within your lore and say he has been called 'Lucifer' by some, yet that only states that the name has been used to identify your created devil but is not actually him, after all.

Furthermore, you have therefore undermined your own suggestion in that same statement since, while it is true that there would be no Lucifer without there was a God Almighty, it is also therefore just as preposterous to suggest that Lucifer and God Almighty are one. Again, that makes your lore 'God' not God because God is who He is and a compromise of His identity immediately and completely separates any artist's creation from any identity of God. 

 

I think you @RadZakpak essentially said it right, except in stating that he is "God, Allah..."

While I see the point you are trying to make, it is rather that Monty is, it would seem, the being which is in the place of which the race of humanity perceives as diety due to his originality. A sort of Tiki god, a Prometheus kind of lore. 

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NaBrZHunter    488
16 hours ago, MancHitman said:

If monty was a god he wouldn't need the characters to do anything he would just fix everything himself and zap the shadow man out of existence? 

It does depend on how you define "a god." The gods of most non-Christian religions would need help with stuff, yes. 

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MancHitman    0
8 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

It does depend on how you define "a god." The gods of most non-Christian religions would need help with stuff, yes. 

Ahh right I see personally I would define a god as a hoax as I truly believe religion was just a tool to control the masses but that's just my opinion. It just seemed the logically answer for me that the all powerful wouldn't need help but i'm not educated on other gods ect 

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