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Rissole25

So the Aether = Agartha according to Monty

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Rissole25    378

This revelation (ayy) makes you think back on a lot of past quotes and events. Agartha and Aether have usually always been thought of as two different realms. But now they are the same. It will be interesting after the Revelations hype has died down, to go back and look at things with this in mind.

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anonymous    339

I agree with you that the community will interesting look into this once the Revelations hype is over. We have to wait to discuss about this new thing that we now know. Its gonna change some important old perceptions on the storyline. Shangri La, Buried endgame, Origins, the whole Vrill Ya mythos and more

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TezFunz    3

So I was right with my theory about Agartha being the Dark Aether.

Well saying I was right doesn't mean anything as it's just a theory ...

Anyway the blue glowing ball could be the "Black Sun" or "Central Sun" or let's say "Earth Core".

"banished to the dark Aether beneath creation ".

Beneath Creation means below Earth, which explains why Buried Maxis wanted to destroy the earth and why when you help Richtofen in Buried then a code will proceed to stop the meteors from falling.

Rocks happened to roam around earth thanks to Maxis launching rockets from Moon which destroyed the Earth surface.

Using the towers that use the Aether energy, Maxis created magnetic fields around earth to have the rocks smash into it.

In another topic, this explains how the heck does Apothicons knows that 115 will hit earth and cause chaos because the energy absorbed from that blue glowing thing or lets say the Earth core tends to return to its source.

So Apothicons send those little 115 rocks into other dimensions and it smashs into that realm earth because it tries to return to the core.

However it won't succeed in doing that because it's not powerful enough to destroy the earth surface, it remains at the surface until Group 935 finds it.

What do you guys think ?

EDIT: All I said remains a theory and would like to discuss it with you.

Edited by TezFunz

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Well, the thing is that we knew the Keeper race were what we knew as the Vril-ya back in BO1 and BO2. We delved into the mythos of the Vril-ya, and presumed their home to be Agartha/Arghatha. Then we got a curve ball and Treyarch seemingly implied the Keepers being native to the Aether. Now with the revelation that they are one and the same, things get a bit... interesting.

 

I would like to point out that the assumption that the Dark Aether is merely another name for the Aether is a bit nonsensical.

Here's why:

*Keepers "always were". They predated creation, thus logic would imply that they were in "the reality beyond". The Aether.

*The Aether's energies give seemingly ultimate power over creation.

*Corrupted Keepers were banished to the Dark Aether to prevent them from destroying creation.

*"The Aether. The Infinite. The reality beyond."

*"The Dark Aether beneath creation."

Starting to see some of the issues with this assumption?

4 hours ago, TezFunz said:

Anyway the blue glowing ball could be the "Black Sun" or "Central Sun" or let's say "Earth Core".

That is a giant sphere of pure 115. The Apothicons take that 115 that exists in the Aether, simplify it enough to allow it to exist in the 3rd dimension, and send it through the wormholes to various different universes and fragments. Is that the only way 115 gets to Earth? Almost definitely not, but it is the only one we know of. Earth's Core? Definitely not. It exists beyond the Earth, beyond the furthest reaches of all Earths. Black Sun? Perhaps in some way. Central Sun? Definitely not. This is the Aether... the INFINITE. In something beyond proportions, if it exists, it probably exists an infinite amount of times. You see all those "stars" around the Aether? Those are most likely more of these "115 Suns".

4 hours ago, TezFunz said:

Beneath Creation means below Earth, which explains why Buried Maxis wanted to destroy the earth and why when you help Richtofen in Buried then a code will proceed to stop the meteors from falling.

Rocks happened to roam around earth thanks to Maxis launching rockets from Moon which destroyed the Earth surface.

Using the towers that use the Aether energy, Maxis created magnetic fields around earth to have the rocks smash into it.

Let's take a big, interdimensional step back and look at the big picture. What you are suggesting is like people drilling into the Earth to reach Hell, or building a giant tower in an attempt to reach Heaven. It just doesn't work. If you need further explanation for how this is nonsensical, imagine a stick figure on a piece of paper. No matter how much that stick figure tries to, he will never be able to reach a different piece of paper, unless he passes out of that 2 dimensional piece of paper, into the 3rd dimension, and then back into the 2nd dimension of that other piece of paper.

 

As for the whole Richtofen "meteors stop falling" thing, you can't always trust the code. The devs call things what they want to call them in the code, it doesn't make it cannon.

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Tattoo247    118

Aetherial pretty much stated my beliefs. Beneath creation to me, would mean beneath our realm of creation, another demension. 

 

I was a bit bummed to see the infinite, so stereotypical in its design though, just yor common space effects and rocks, it would have been nice to see it as Monte could see, almost as the map found in the giant, a minor complaint but still.

 

It's going to be really interesting to see how we fix everything, yet keep it open enough from trey arch to continue making other zombie story lines. Maybe we pass the curse on somehow, while correcting our mistakes.

Edited by Tattoo247

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The idea of the "Dark Aether" is nonsensical. First, it is dark Aether. Throughout its development, zombies terminology has been conflated and confusing, even moreso with Monty at the helm. He not only confuses actual related terms but dumb ones as well. He has referred to space-time as a galaxy, universe, multiverse, realm, reality, and creation. It stands then that these terms are conflated. Given the grandness of such an idea, simple prepositions cannot fully describe it. Beyond. Beneath. It makes no difference. Essentially the Aether exists beyond/beneath/elsewhere/outside of our galaxy/universe/multiverse/realm/reality/creation. Aether outside of Universe. There is no cause to create an extra third step in Dark Aether outside of Aether outside of Universe. Doing so is pure speculation. Keeping it to a two step scenario is not just prudent; it's Occam's Razor.

 

Think of it like space. There's space. Outer space. Interstellar space. Intergalactic space. Void. Really, they are empty space, at least in degrees. The Apothicons went to the darkest parts of the Aether away from the universes/realms, because they are dark evil beings etc. It is the "dark Aether" i.e. the dark corners of the infinite beyond. Like waaaay beyond. If the Apothicons lived on an infinitely expansive slice of bread, they'd live on the infinitely wide crust.

 

Also, I only think there is one 115 sun. Shadowman has a quote, calling it the Apothicon Sun, marveling at it. In singular. That leads me to believe there's only one. Why are there stars? Maybe they are universes? Or maybe ask why are there floating rocks why not stars? Or maybe they're just stars leftover from the peaceful universe that was just torn apart? Or maybe an oversight by the devs? I'm not going to pretend like I know why. But I don't think them all being 115 suns is the only plausible scenario.

 

Also, I don't think the Apothicon Sun is any type of Green Sun or anything. Apothicons are supposed to be far-off, not centralizing the grand scheme of things. i.e. the Apothicon Sun is their domain, their territory. You might wonder why a sun would be in a place called dark. But have you seen that thing? Compare it to our average sun. That thing is definitely a dark sun. Not bright at all cosmically. (You can look at it without going blind.)

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anonymous    339

When you talk about the Apothican sun being the only Aetherial sun, makes me wonder: Why do the Keepers wear the symbol of the Black Sun? The Black Sun is said to be the sun of the Vrill Ya, in Agartha. Now Agartha is Aether, this sun could be the Apothican Sun. But why wear the opposite's of the Apothicans, the Keepers, this as symbol.

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Huh that's a good point. But up to now we've never seen this black sun. It's always been a concept or an idea. Perhaps the Apothicon Sun and the Black Sun are not the same thing? Or what if the Keepers have a twist and turn out to be bad guys after all! *dramatic gasp*

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@MysteryMachineX One quick thing I'd like to point out. After the Apothicon's defeat at the Great War, they were banished to the Dark Aether, and the Keepers "Ascended to become the wards of all universes". This along with many other things heavily implies the Keepers ascending to the Aether. Why would they both go to the same place? Why would they banish the Apothicons to a place that seemingly has ultimate power to manipulate creation? It just doesn't make sense.

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Haven't we always seen the Keepers and Apothicons in the same places? In a war, opposite sides tend to stay close. Besides, two spaceships both flying in outer space aren't really in the same place. So that's just supposition. Even so, while the Keepers can traverse the Aether, they have free reign to enter universes. Something the Apothicons could only do by force.

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anonymous    339

@MysteryMachineX Im not sure, but I believe it was you in your story mentioning the three pyramids of the Vrill (the ones you see in the Shangri La and Moon loading screens). Did you made that info up yourself or is it a real mythe? If so, can you give me the link to it. I would like to investigate that part of the Vrill story, it might give us answers on things.

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Slade    270

This whole Agartha was the Aether all along retcon makes no sense. It's been very clear from the start that they were meant to be two different places.

And that you can reach Agartha by using the aether. 

In Buried, Maxis tells us that by having control of the Aether's energy, he can now reach Agartha, where Samantha is.

Richtofen them tells him "yeah well even if you're daughter is still alive she has my body."

 

But wait, Richtofen is already in the aether / agartha. So he should know Samantha's whereabouts because they're in the same place and he's omnipotent or something like that.

And by that point, Maxis is presumably also in the aether because his voice changes and gets the aether sound reverb instead. So if Agartha = Aether, why didn't he just say yeah I'll go to the Aether now to get my daughter back?

Also you're telling me Samantha somehow went up in smoke after Moon and ended up in Agartha / the Aether just fine, but if Maxis wants to enter, the whole earth needs to be destroyed?

 

And we still don't know what the 'Dark Aether' is supposed to be now? 

 

If you ask me it would've been better if Agartha was the home of the Keepers, located somewhere in the Aether. The rest of the uninhabitable aether, where the apothicons were cast to, could be known as the 'dark aether'.

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1 hour ago, Slade said:

But wait, Richtofen is already in the aether / agartha. So he should know Samantha's whereabouts because they're in the same place and he's omnipotent or something like that.

The M.P.D. gives limited control over the Aether's energies. And it also limits its conduit to only manipulating the universe that said M.P.D. is located in.

Being inside M.P.D. =/= Omnipotence

Having complete control over the Aether's energies = Omnipotence

While it clearly wasn't intended for them to be the same thing all along, it does make sense when you think it through.

1 hour ago, Slade said:

In Buried, Maxis tells us that by having control of the Aether's energy, he can now reach Agartha, where Samantha is.

Richtofen them tells him "yeah well even if you're daughter is still alive she has my body."

I believe this is him speaking of himself "ascending" to the Aether/Agartha, where he can finally reach his daughter. Also that Richtofen quote really throws a wrench in everything. I think this is going to be played off as him not really understanding what is going on, considering the fact that he never really achieved true omnipotence.

1 hour ago, Slade said:

Also you're telling me Samantha somehow went up in smoke after Moon and ended up in Agartha / the Aether just fine, but if Maxis wants to enter, the whole earth needs to be destroyed?

I really have no clue what they were thinking with this whole thing. However, there are a couple theories and assumptions that we can gain from this. We can safely assume that Richtofen thinks Samantha is dead. We can most likely assume that the Samantha in Agartha is not the Samantha from that universe, but possibly the same one heard in Origins. And honestly, I don't think that Maxis really needed to destroy the Earth and its people, but rather it was a safety precaution to stop Richtofen from gaining the same power he did (note that this is purely theory/speculation).

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On the question of Samantha, I believe this is Samantha from the Giant universe. The Samantha from Moon has the same MIA fate as the characters from that universe. MIA as in presumed dead. There is no Samantha native to the Origins universe. BUT, there is an unaccounted for Samantha in the rebooted Giant timeline. Where did she and Maxis go when they teleported? I would suggest that that Samantha would eventually end up in the house with the reconstructed Maxis and Monty. Also, we now know Maxis used a machine to talk across dimensions. Isn't it reasonable to assume that Samantha could find a way to communicate to the heroes back in the Origins universe at a prior time to rescue her? I previously thought maybe she borrowed her dad's equipment. But now, I think she might be talking to Origins during the events of Revelations, being held captive with the other children by the Apothicons.

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TezFunz    3
Quote

Shadowman: "You know you really should give up. Let yourself give in. Your spirit will be absorbed into the beautiful blue light of the Apothicon Sun."

So this quote is interesting.

It's not the "Apothicon Sun", nah it's the line where it says "Your spirit will be absorbed into ..etc"

Does this means that 115 is the spark of life (the purest form of energy that ever existed) ? Is the "Apothicon Sun" a big ball of life forces from all the dimensions the Apothicons absorbed or destroyed ?

This could explain something about the situation of Samantha and how she ended up talking with Origins Maxis and the crew.

Edited by TezFunz

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I don't think so, TezFunz. Monty has quotes about how the "spark of life" or "life energy" or "purest energy" or whatnot is consumed by the Apothicons. And given the blue color, this Apothicon Sun is made of 115, revered by them it would seem. In the intro, you can see them utilizing it, for what it isn't clear. Monty says 115 isn't even supposed to be in the universe. I think the Apothicons put it there. If 115 was life energy, they'd just eat the 115. No, I don't think it is. In the intro you can see when they inhale 115, they spit it into a type of black hole, perhaps into the universe. I think Apothicons consume life energy, and 115 is a by-product they have amassed to facilitate the collapse of the universe.

 

I think 115 is excreted by the Apothicons.

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Monopoly Mac    39

How could the Sam in The Giant be Sam in the house? At the time of The Giant, the children have been in the house for ages. Unless I'm misunderstanding some here.

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Slade    270
4 hours ago, MysteryMachineX said:

so, we now know Maxis used a machine to talk across dimensions. Isn't it reasonable to assume that Samantha could find a way to communicate to the heroes back in the Origins universe at a prior time to rescue her? I previously thought maybe she borrowed her dad's equipment. But now, I think she might be talking to Origins during the events of Revelations, being held captive with the other children by the Apothicons

Spoiler

Here's a Shadow Man quote from Revelations.

You simple-minded fools! Do you really believe you have a chance?! This universe belongs to the Apothicons! You will be consumed! I offered you the chance to enter the beautiful blue light, and you DENIED my mercy?! You have followed a path marked by lies and deceit. Many others have failed, why would you be any different? This has always only ended one way. I have foreseen it.

 

Now obviously the blue light refers to the portal at the very end of the Origins easter egg. So this would imply that the Shadow Man was behind this all along.

In other words, he was merely posing as Samantha to manipulate Maxis and our Origins crew into opening the gateway to Agartha.

This gives a whole new meanign to Richtofen and Takeo especially doubting Samantha's real origin and agenda in Origins. And it's also nice knowing that we didn't actually step into the light at the end of Origins. That was never really confirmed.

 

 

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Spider3000    140
58 minutes ago, Slade said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Spoiler

"The Blue Light" can just be a continuation of this quote.

 

"You know you really should give up. Let yourself give in. Your spirit will be absorbed into the beautiful blue light of the Apothicon Sun."

 

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Slade    270
52 minutes ago, Spider3000 said:

 

  Hide contents

"The Blue Light" can just be a continuation of this quote.

 

"You know you really should give up. Let yourself give in. Your spirit will be absorbed into the beautiful blue light of the Apothicon Sun."

 

Spoiler

I doubt that because he used the past-tense. 

I gave you the chance to enter the blue light [...] and you denied my mercy. 

 

Your quote sounds like it's the continuation (of his manipulation.) We denied the blue light in Origins - which makes sense otherwise the events of the Giant and all of BO3 wouldn't have happened if we did enter the portal - so now he's telling us basically the same thing again. Surrender and give in to the apothicons.

 

This is backed up even further by that cipher in ZNS that reads that we opened the portal. But the crew never stepped in it.

 

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Sorry Slade, I'm with Spider3000. We've never seen the Shadowman impersonate someone (although we did see him create the alias of Mr. Rapt). And Samantha in Origins sounds exactly like Samantha in the house. Plus, if he says quote 1 to enter the light of the sun, and then quote 2 mentions past tense how you denied it, that makes sense because quote 1 was before quote 2, i.e. the past, so past tense.

 

@Monopoly Mac

When you play in the Giant, you hear radios from your very own characters, in addition to Maxis contacting you. Just because the teleporter accident happened moments ago in this universe doesn't mean that Samantha only arrived recently in another universe. I mean, by this point in the story, time shenanigans should be a given.

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