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Why do people seem to forget the Ancient Evil?

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It seems to me that many people have forgotten the Ancient Evil and its significance to the story. Many people have been assuming that the Ancient Evil is the Apothicons, but that doesn't seem to add up quite right.

 

For any who do not know, the Ancient Evil is an aetherial/etherial "entity" that we know woefully little about. It was quite prevalent in MotD, and is often associated with a very distinct aesthetic design style. This style is red, orange, fiery, and demonic. Typically wherever the Ancient Evil's influence is, there are demonic sacrifices, strange and archaic-looking symbols written in blood, and most importantly zombies. He has been speculated to be the one in control of the zombies "by default", however there is little solid proof to back this up. Most of what we know about it is just speculation. The first direct reference to it was on the map Moon, when Samantha Maxis says "swallow your pride, something far more terrible than you lies here".

 

Going back to the aesthetic design style associated with the Ancient Evil, although it is not as prominent since MotD, it has not left entirely. The Apothicons have a purple "shadow-like" aura to them at times, and most things associated with them have this luminescent yellow gas-like aura to it (i.e. open Margwa heads, Parasites, and the Summoning Key). Their writing style is strange and fluid. Many of the radicals in the language resemble tentacles, and it seems very fitting from a design choice. The Keepers have a red and black color scheme, with cuneiform symbols on just about everything associated with them. Even they radiate these symbols, which is a very strange design choice. However, neither of these are even that similar to the style associated with the Ancient Evil.

 

But the style is not gone. We see it in the SoE pack-a-punch camo, and it seems to even have some deliberate symbols carved into it. The pack-a-punch machine in SoE is called "The Apothicon Rift Stone" which is a very peculiar name, but it makes sense seeing as though opening it begins the Apothicon assimilation of their dimension, on the behalf of their Overlords. In DE while upgrading to the Kreeaho'ahm nal Ahmhogaroc (a.k.a. the fire bow) you need to shoot three "ritual" circles whilst being flung by a Wundersphere. These circles have the same demonic and fiery aesthetics as the things associated with the Ancient Evil. While standing in them you will consistently hear voices or whispering. I have tried to no avail to translate them from Apothicon and Keeper, but alas they don't seem to be either. When you kill three of the nine necessary zombies in the circle, a rune will appear. Another, slightly different, rune will appear at the sixth kill. And the final will appear when the ninth is killed. These runes do not even remotely resemble Apothicon or Keeper scripts. On to ZnS, the aforementioned voices and whispers seem to be of the same origin as the ones you hear while hallucinating on ZnS. They are not the same whispers though. They are saying something different, but we don't know what.

 

The Ancient Evil is not an obsolete part of the story, it is still quite relevant. I think that there is a sort of hierarchy established. The bottom is composed of the Margwas, parasites, zombies, and insanity elementals. The next level is the "Lesser Apothicons" like the Shadow Man. They serve the next level, which is the "Overlords". The Overlords are most likely Apothicons of significance and they have been confirmed to be the ones controlling the Margwas in SoE. The next in the hierarchy is the Ancient Evil, which I think the Apothicons and their Overlords worship in exchange for power. This would explain his role in influencing the events without needing to directly take control like he did in MotD.

 

"Why the distinction? Couldn't the Ancient Evil just be the Apothicons or their Overlords?" This is a good question and the reason is that the chance of passing over the sudden change in aesthetic design passed when they included Apothicon, Keeper, and Ancient Evil design choices all separately. The change in language is also quite trivial. The real deciding factor in my mind however, was the Apothicons and their Overlords always being referred to in plural. Going back to the Samantha quote, it is singular. In TG, Dr. Edward Richtofen says the following, "Trust me, there is something else out there. Something worse than me". This is directly referencing the Samantha quote on Moon, and once again using singular phrasing.

 

Thanks for reading and share your thoughts on the subject.

 

The Ancient Evil is confirmed to be an Overlord. And moreover, the Overlords themselves are not Apothicons. They are something else entirely. The only two that we know of to date are "M" and "X". "M" is Dr. Monty, and (through some evidence that I have found that will be below) possibly (though unlikely) the "Ancient Evil".

 

Now, on to this Dr. Monty business. In Mob of the Dead we first see the red eyes. Also, in this seemingly meaningless dimension of perpetual torment, there are the perk machines that were created by none other than Dr. Monty. Moreover, if you look at the Sweeper (the PaP'ed Blundergat) you will notice a lion with red eyes... seems a bit convenient. Then we get to Shadows of Evil, and we first see the Gobblegum machine. It has the head of a lion with red eyes... very strange. Also, we get a cipher that says "M is interested in these worthless beings all his work will be undone X". Implying that Monty is interested in humanity and possibly even HELPING them. Then we get messages of Maxis talking about M (Monty) as defying logic and reason. We also hear him say that he fears there is something that M isn't telling him. Then we get another cipher "I have received a new toy -posted by M". Then we get to Gorod Krovi, right after Richtofen takes a detour from the plan established by Maxis and Monty. Suddenly the eyes are red, and it is also now that Monty reveals himself. He is a self-proclaimed omnipotent, but not metaomnipotent, entity. He also speaks as if he is not human. Even more so, he appears to be attempting to break the group up, and most notably turn the others against Richtofen.

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NaBrZHunter    491

In my work for my hobby/show Der Bunker, I actually researched the "ancient evil," having been long confused by its commonality in the community despite having no support from canon sources. Samantha's comment in Moon, "the blackness will swallow your pride; something far more terrible than you lies here," was, with all due respect, actually, by definition, an indirect reference to something; something that has never been confirmed to be an "ancient evil," and is more than likely connected to the Vril Ya race themselves.

 

The properties of Mob of the Dead have also never been officially confirmed to be the result of or connected to a being/creature/entity, known as the "ancient evil," and certainly not to the "something far more terrible." As I recall, the first use of the those words was actually in the Origins intro cutscene, in reference not to an entity, but to the zombie plague, "as an ancient evil ravaged the front lines, the hopes of the allies rested on one man sent to stop it." [ENTER DEMPSEY, CENTER STAGE]

 

We have known even since Moon that the MPD was created by the Vril Ya, the glyphs on it being in the Vril language, which Richtofen was actually able to decipher at the time, while also often complaining of hearing voices which began at the time he touched it. Since, we have seen further evidence that the Vril are the MPD's creators and ultimate controllers via the implications that the Keepers are indeed a faction of the Vril Ya, and have been seen, in Der Eisendrache,to not only occupy and control the MPD on a level hereunto unsurpassed by any other being, but even further, being able to actually displace it.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the Ancient Evil is literally a "figment of the community's imagination" as a result of early theories misconstrued as fact, which have since spread like wildfire, especially with videos such as @MysteryMachineX's Zombie Trilogy and @BlindBusDrivr's storyline republished on YT by @MrDalekJD and more, similar to the viral popularity of the belief that "souls" are used to power the MPD and other objects in the zombies storyline. That's a whole other discussion. I won't drag the thread off topic; however, it is related to the subject to an extent - if you're curious, I debunked it in another thread.

 

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I'm sorry but I disagree. We know that there is a satanic and devillish entity behind the scenes in Mob of the Dead, and that Samantha quote can't just be disregarded. The term Ancient Evil in itself is a vague term, admitting that we don't know much about it. I mean, when you input 115 into the number pad in Mob of the Dead, Brutus yells "Not this time" and changes it to 666, commonly known as the devil's number. So the Ancient Evil definitely exists.

 

The Aether is another plane of existence, a place said to be between life and death. Now with the whole multiple realm, universe, and reality thing that's going on in the story these days, one could say that the Aether is just another strange universe, but I'll go a step further. I think the Aether is the space between the universes, the void. And that's what gives it its nature. And the Ancient Evil is one of the entities native to the Aether. And this is what Samantha references. And this being is what tortures the prisoners in Alcatraz.

 

So with the new Apothicon creatures and their Overlords, (Honestly, the term Apothicon is used always as a verb. If it is used as a noun somewhere, I have yet to see it. But that's not relevant.) people could conflate them with the Ancient Evil. But just because two things are evil doesn't make them the same thing. Don't forget that Malum, Deimos, and Dolos are still things within the realms of Treyarch's Call of Duty, yet they are something completely unrelated to the Overlords. But if we ever see an all-powerful Overlords with devil-like attributes, then we'll see.

 

Btw, the Apothicon realm is to other realms as a multicellular organism is to a single-cell. They just consume and incorporate other universes, kinda like Shao Kahn in Mortal Kombat.

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11 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I have come to the conclusion that the Ancient Evil is literally a "figment of the community's imagination"

@NaBrZHunter I agree with your terminology, but not your conclusion. The Ancient Evil is a concept created by the community as an explanation of things that needed explaining. The term "Ancient Evil" was created by the community as a more vague term for this entity that has been considered the Devil, Lucifer, and Mictlantecuhtli just to name a few. It is an intentional over-generalization because we don't have enough to go on to identify this entity. This however doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

 

As for the voices in Richtofen's head from touching the MPD, they are most likely Apothicon of origin. The keeper that became corrupted upon entering the MPD was stated by Takeo to be "possessed". The keeper is speaking the Apothicon language during the fight, implying that it was possessed by an Apothicon.

Edited by AetherialVoices

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NaBrZHunter    491
6 hours ago, MysteryMachineX said:

I'm sorry but I disagree. We know that there is a satanic and devillish entity behind the scenes in Mob of the Dead, and that Samantha quote can't just be disregarded. The term Ancient Evil in itself is a vague term, admitting that we don't know much about it. I mean, when you input 115 into the number pad in Mob of the Dead, Brutus yells "Not this time" and changes it to 666, commonly known as the devil's number. So the Ancient Evil definitely exists.

Mob of the Dead, perhaps. But that's just it: what is being shown is that Mob of the Dead is the exception to the rule that 115 is the catalyst of chaos, if you will; the cause of the turning. I'm being meta, perhaps, but my emphasis is on the use of a proper noun. There is, indubitably, an ancient entity/force with evil intent, hence, an "ancient evil;"  however, the approach that this entity/force is the be-all-end-all of the zombies storyline is a forensics stretch of magnanimous proportions, especially taking into consideration that Element 115 is already known to be a consistent catalyst; not merely a "person of interest," rather, the culprit itself. Whereas the general approach in regards to this "ancient evil" is that it is the conclusive center and driving force of the Zombie Storyline, in which lies the flaw, to wit, MotD does not answer the question of what Samantha was referring to. 

And I would by not means disregard anything from the Moon dialogue, as I consider it to be not only the single greatest moment in Zombies history, but also a rich source of information. We simply cannot conclude that "something far more terrible" is in reference to the devil or his many names. 

 

6 hours ago, MysteryMachineX said:

The Aether is another plane of existence, a place said to be between life and death. Now with the whole multiple realm, universe, and reality thing that's going on in the story these days, one could say that the Aether is just another strange universe, but I'll go a step further. I think the Aether is the space between the universes, the void. And that's what gives it its nature. And the Ancient Evil is one of the entities native to the Aether. And this is what Samantha references. And this being is what tortures the prisoners in Alcatraz.

This is something @Tac and I have discussed extensively. The Welteis. Realms within multidimensional universes within a multiverse interconnected within a fabric of 115 known as The Aether. Theory source: The SoE Multiverse Map; The World Ice Theory. The thing about the idea that beings can exist within the Aether is that it has never been shown to be a habitable field in a physical sense, instead, a gateway between realms and universes. I cite the difference between Gersch and what we know about his state of being vs. what we know about the gangsters. Gersch has been elevated to a position as an Aethereal entity, while the gangsters are clearly in a form of inter-hell (not purgatory, as purgatory is a place of redemption).

 

2 hours ago, AetherialVoices said:

I agree with your terminology, but not your conclusion. The Ancient Evil is a concept created by the community as an explanation of things that needed explaining. The term "Ancient Evil" was created by the community as a more vague term for this entity that has been considered the Devil, Lucifer, and Mictlantecuhtli just to name a few. It is an intentional over-generalization because we don't have enough to go on to identify this entity. This however doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Understood. But heck, this entity could be Gersch for all we know. It could be Maxis; the Apothicons; the Keepers/Vril Ya. To even call it an "ancient evil" is very specific, much less narrowing it down to the various flavors of a fallen angel from Christian doctrine. 

 

2 hours ago, AetherialVoices said:

As for the voices in Richtofen's head from touching the MPD, they are most likely Apothicon of origin. The keeper that became corrupted upon entering the MPD was stated by Takeo to be "possessed". The keeper is speaking the Apothicon language during the fight, implying that it was possessed by an Apothicon.

Richtofen actually states in DE that the Keeper was corrupted on its way back to earth by Groph "somehow." Whether or not Groph used something Apothicon to do that is open for speculation; however, Richtofen makes no mention of the MPD having played a role in the corruption of the Keeper.

 

And looking into the past of zombies lore, we find that Richtofen seems particularly interested in the Vril Ya - not the Apothicons. Additionally, it makes no sense that the Apothicons would have control over an ancient Vril Machine. To say that the Vril have evil motives is neither a stretch in the Vril Ya mythos or the zombies lore itself. They are described as a superior race with great power. However, the Keepers, though one-track-minded beings (must stop anyone - anyone - who attempts to tamper with the multiverse) they do not necessarily represent the entirety of the race.

 

Good talk, BTW. Involved discussion has become so rare these days. @MysteryMachineX @AetherialVoices

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But it is "an" Ancient Evil. The term ancient evil is thrown around a lot these days, and it hadn't occurred to me to think they were the same thing. The Overlords are an ancient evil. The zombies are an ancient evils. Even the Keepers might be an ancient evil. The Vril-Ya could be an ancient evil. The devil figure is an ancient evil. So this really seems to be an issue of semantics.

 

If you agree that this entity in Mob of the Dead exists (and I think Samantha was referring to this entity and not some other entity but regardless), then it exists within the zombie story. This entity has to be called something for easy conversation. There are many ancient evils, but this entity is very fitting of the title, being both ancient and evil. Also, this entity is unique in that its brand of ancient evil is singular. It isn't a plethora of creatures or a Lovecraftian horror. It is a single entity, a single ancient evil. Or, the Ancient Evil. Not the ONLY Ancient Evil.

 

But calling it an Ancient Evil is also a pragmatic choice to avoid tension in a multicultural audience. It saves us from having to call it the name of an evil entity from a specific religion. Even if we agreed to call it the name of the Christian bad guy, which name do you use? Devil? Satan? Lucifer? Let's just be vague and neutral and agree on "Ancient Evil"... And well, that's what we did.

 

No problem. Glad to contribute.

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NaBrZHunter    491
35 minutes ago, MysteryMachineX said:

But it is "an" Ancient Evil. The term ancient evil is thrown around a lot these days, and it hadn't occurred to me to think they were the same thing. The Overlords are an ancient evil. The zombies are an ancient evils. Even the Keepers might be an ancient evil. The Vril-Ya could be an ancient evil. The devil figure is an ancient evil. So this really seems to be an issue of semantics.

 

If you agree that this entity in Mob of the Dead exists (and I think Samantha was referring to this entity and not some other entity but regardless), then it exists within the zombie story. This entity has to be called something for easy conversation. There are many ancient evils, but this entity is very fitting of the title, being both ancient and evil. Also, this entity is unique in that its brand of ancient evil is singular. It isn't a plethora of creatures or a Lovecraftian horror. It is a single entity, a single ancient evil. Or, the Ancient Evil. Not the ONLY Ancient Evil.

 

But calling it an Ancient Evil is also a pragmatic choice to avoid tension in a multicultural audience. It saves us from having to call it the name of an evil entity from a specific religion. Even if we agreed to call it the name of the Christian bad guy, which name do you use? Devil? Satan? Lucifer? Let's just be vague and neutral and agree on "Ancient Evil"... And well, that's what we did.

 

No problem. Glad to contribute.

I see what you're saying; tis a good point, for sure. And honestly, while I appreciate the use of existing/real-life elements in Zombies, the use of "Lucifer" the fallen angel is very cheesy from my perspective. There are plenty of evil, powerful beings in mythology far more qualified for the role in a supernatural sci-fi story than "Lucifer," the angel who was created by and rebelled against the God of Christianity and Judaism. And to be completely honest, I'm Catholic, hence finding it cheesy. People are fascinated by this romanticized concept of "the devil," and it comes off as...goofy. Just my opinion, and clearly not a popular one; :twisted: anyhoo, all that to say your last paragraph is logically fair.

 

I still have qty(2) beef with your position, not that you are obligated to explain, but rather I believe you are more inclined to ;) :

What other evidence do we have that "something far worse" of the MPD and the "ancient evil" of MotD are one and the same? These aren't even the same realm, and like I had stated, Brutus himself clarifies that Mob is the exception, "not this time."

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18 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

I still have qty(2) beef with your position, not that you are obligated to explain, but rather I believe you are more inclined to ;) :

What other evidence do we have that "something far worse" of the MPD and the "ancient evil" of MotD are one and the same? These aren't even the same realm, and like I had stated, Brutus himself clarifies that Mob is the exception, "not this time."

 

Well to be honest, I don't really have much of a stake in this issue. (It's not like in the script of my story I ever even try to argue that they are the same.) But I'll explain my reasoning.

 

The original and MotD realms are two different realms, yes. But the Aether exists (or rather, nonexists haha) across all realms, or between them. So if it exists in the Aether, it doesn't matter what realm it is. Part of the idea is due to the history of zombies.

 

@AlphaSnake, ever since Nazi Zombies first began, spoke of the satanic influences in zombies. He's had huge threads about it here, with a bunch of symbolism, like the original Pack-A-Punch camo. When Samantha made that quote, more people began to think that there being a satanic influence might be an actual thing. Then when Mob of the Dead was released, everyone threw their hands up to AlphaSnake. He was right. Not only that, but Aether is a limbo-like state, and limbo is a defining characteristic of Mob of the Dead. So it fit.

 

The devil is hinted at not only in the religions of our real lives, but in the religions that surely exist within each realm we've seen, as well as several zombie levels from multiple realms. Could there be multiple devils? Supposedly, but that's not fitting with what makes the devil really the devil. It is supposed to be a singular entity of evil. So, the simplest solution is that there's one devil in the Aether between multiple realms, as opposed to there being multiple devils, some in the Aether, some elsewhere.

 

There's still the Overlords, but I think it is pretty safe to say they have their own realm and that they don't exist in the Aether (at least not permanently).

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NaBrZHunter    491

Agreed, if MotD is indeed in the Aether, I would be inclined to agree; however, such logic would dictate that Shadows is also in the Aether. To the contrary, both SoE and MotD are "shadow realms" which lie somewhere within the multiverse. As far as we have seen, the Aether is not really a "habitable" plane, and more of a pass through, based on everything from the original teleportation vortex, the rift, and the recent cipher from Richtofen regarding the physiological consequences of traversing the Aether. 

 

No offense, but AlphaSnake will stretch his obsession with satanic concepts and his pareidolia in such regards to fit whatever he touches. He's been preaching the 5-points Der Riese for a long time. However, we do know that Treyarch was aware of his theories back in the day and he and Faust very well may have had some influence. 

 

Yet still, I see your logic and would be inclined to agree. This may be a matter of my own preference which I may be forced to relinquish in the face of canon, but thr problem with "The Devil" and the "Ancient Evil" is that their motives are not the same, which is why I find it cheesy. Better to create a fictional entity than to repurpose one half-baked.

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anonymous    339

And what about the name of the Mexican god of the underworld, the one you see in the nuketown loading screen? The eyes on the walls in Alcatraz where Cerberus comes from look kinda Aztec to me too. And the candels have a demonic look too. But furthermore in other maps there aren't really devilish attributes to see. But like @MysterymachineX said, Ancient Evil is a big term. In Origins we release a ancient evil, however these aren't demonic and devilish creatures. Apothicans and perhaps Keepers and Vrill Ya are Ancient Evil. Ancient Evil is more then some demon floating around in the Aether

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JJMFP    54
On 6/25/2016 at 8:53 AM, MysteryMachineX said:

I'm sorry but I disagree. We know that there is a satanic and devillish entity behind the scenes in Mob of the Dead, and that Samantha quote can't just be disregarded. The term Ancient Evil in itself is a vague term, admitting that we don't know much about it. I mean, when you input 115 into the number pad in Mob of the Dead, Brutus yells "Not this time" and changes it to 666, commonly known as the devil's number. So the Ancient Evil definitely exists.

 

The Aether is another plane of existence, a place said to be between life and death. Now with the whole multiple realm, universe, and reality thing that's going on in the story these days, one could say that the Aether is just another strange universe, but I'll go a step further. I think the Aether is the space between the universes, the void. And that's what gives it its nature. And the Ancient Evil is one of the entities native to the Aether. And this is what Samantha references. And this being is what tortures the prisoners in Alcatraz.

 

So with the new Apothicon creatures and their Overlords, (Honestly, the term Apothicon is used always as a verb. If it is used as a noun somewhere, I have yet to see it. But that's not relevant.) people could conflate them with the Ancient Evil. But just because two things are evil doesn't make them the same thing. Don't forget that Malum, Deimos, and Dolos are still things within the realms of Treyarch's Call of Duty, yet they are something completely unrelated to the Overlords. But if we ever see an all-powerful Overlords with devil-like attributes, then we'll see.

 

Btw, the Apothicon realm is to other realms as a multicellular organism is to a single-cell. They just consume and incorporate other universes, kinda like Shao Kahn in Mortal Kombat.

I surmised much of the same thing.  Especially about the " I think the Aether is the space between the universes, the void." part.  I wrote something quite recently talking about an "ancient evil" known as a Djinn (Genie for fariy tale folk).  It is a creature that walks the space between worlds and can manipulate time and space.  Think about a genie with evil intentions.  He fills enough souls and takes over the world.

 

See the great movie series "Wishmaster"  especially the first one.  it has a great cast, to include

  1. Robert Englund (Freddy Krueger)
  2. Kane Hodder (only person to play Jason Vorhees more than once)
  3. Tony Todd (Candyman)

Great movie.

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(Delayed response due to life issues)

 

@NaBrZHunter I don't think Mob of the Dead or Shadows of Evil are in the Aether. Here's a diagram of the way I see it:

realms.png

 

I agree that the Aether doesn't have physicality, but I'd also say the satanic Ancient Evil entity doesn't as well. I'd say it resides in there, and it exerts its influence on the realm that Mob of the Dead is from. And even if you don't want to call it Purgatory, it pulls Alcatraz into its own Purgatory-like-or-whatever-you-want-to-call-it type of mini-realm. Meanwhile, Shadows of Evil is an overlap, with the Overlord realm trying to assimilate the realm Shadows is from and currently had only partially done so.

 

And sure AlphaSnake did stretch things, but I do think he had a great influence on the community. Either way, that's why I try to be vague with the description of the Ancient Evil, why I call it that to begin with. Treyarch is notorious for simply not naming things and sitting back to see what vague and made up names the community comes up with... *cough* Big Guy *cough* Him *cough* Bus Driver *cough*  ghost lady *cough* ancient evil *cough*

 

@anonymous Mictlantecuhtli is the one you're thinking of. Which isn't even Christian in origin, so yes, again, why I try to be vague to avoid the whole religious mess. And I agree. I think an "ancient evil" is a broad term that applies to a great many things in this story. One of the things it applies to is not a group but a singular entity without a name. It's actually why in my story script I introduce it as AN Ancient Evil, instead of THE. Although I do admit I believe I use "the" elsewhere.

 

@AetherialVoices In regards to the new trailer, it is an interesting development, but it could literally mean anything. I don't even try to predict Treyarch anymore. Why bother? When it comes to zombie eye colors, it could mean many things.

 

Yellow > In the original realm, it signified both the default color and Samantha's power

Blue > In the original realm, it signified Richtofen's power

Orange > In the original realm, it signified Maxis's power

Blue > In the Origins realm, it signified the default color (like 115 being blue)

Yellow > In the Origins realm, it signified Samantha's influence

Red > In the Mob of the Dead realm, it signified the Ancient Evil's power

Yellow > In the Shadows of Evil realm, it signified the default color

Yellow > In the new realm, it signified the default color and Maxis's influence

 

So, red making a reappearance could be many things. Could it be a resurgence in the Ancient Evil? Sure. But in this realm there's no one really controlling the zombies. So they could just say the yellow turned to red to represent some sort of chaos. Or, the Dragons have red eyes. So maybe the Dragons are controlling them. Or maybe Maxis is up to no good and his influence is spreading, turning their eyes red. (After all, all of Maxis's portals are red now.) Also, notice there was some kind of new zombie with blue eyes. So... I guess we'll see what happens.

 

@JJMFP Thanks! I've read a few stories about Djinn. Such a cooler name than genie in my opinion.

 

 

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anonymous    339

I am curious why you think the zombies in Origins have influence from Samantha. She is trapped in Agartha. And why do you think its Maxis who is in control in BO3.

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I said influence, not power or control. In Origins, all the Templar zombies have blue eyes. All the German zombies (the ones AFTER Samantha made contact) have yellow eyes. And Maxis is the one who teleports everyone around in the new levels, and he even does the Fly Trap thing. That's it.

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The Vril-Ya are abviously are influenced in some way with the ethereal beings, but why have they not been mentioned. Do they worship the ancient evil. Whats the deal?

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Tac    462
12 hours ago, AMPLIFIED CHAOS said:

The Vril-Ya are abviously are influenced in some way with the ethereal beings, but why have they not been mentioned. Do they worship the ancient evil. Whats the deal?

 

Which ethereal beings are you referring to?

 

The Vril-ya/Keepers don't worship this Ancient Evil, I suspect, but are working on opposite sides of each other. Could you be a little more specific?

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Matuzz    218

The key to understand these things is to realize that Treyarch themselves have no idea what's going on.

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On 7/9/2016 at 1:59 AM, Matuzz said:

The key to understand these things is to realize that Treyarch themselves have no idea what's going on.

To: Matuzz,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I realize that already. By example, the reason Nikolai was addicted to vodka, is because of the serum that was made as a pain reliever with the PRIMARY ingredient vodka, that he was. I even made a diagram of how eagles nest then the giant, in this order took place, and not to forget that by that time the three test subjects (including Mexican) were already captured.There is more than that but these are some examples. I made the work in progress diagram, to try to figure out whats going on.  Pre boIII means that you forget what you heard from boIII.                                                                                                                                                               To:Tac,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   The keepers are not the Vril-Ya. They were never said to be the same. They are different but in someway connected. They have never been forgotten, at least the name ''Vril''.

On 7/6/2016 at 10:08 AM, Tac said:

 

Which ethereal beings are you referring to?

 

The Vril-ya/Keepers don't worship this Ancient Evil, I suspect, but are working on opposite sides of each other. Could you be a little more specific?

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NaBrZHunter    491
21 minutes ago, AMPLIFIED CHAOS said:

To: Matuzz,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I realize that already. By example, the reason Nikolai was addicted to vodka, is because of the serum that was made as a pain reliever with the PRIMARY ingredient vodka, that he was. I even made a diagram of how eagles nest then the giant, in this order took place, and not to forget that by that time the three test subjects (including Mexican) were already captured.There is more than that but these are some examples. I made the work in progress diagram, to try to figure out whats going on.  Pre boIII means that you forget what you heard from boIII.                                                                                                                                                               To:Tac,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   The keepers are not the Vril-Ya. They were never said to be the same. They are different but in someway connected. They have never been forgotten, at least the name ''Vril''.

 

To the contrary, it has been presumed that the serum actually worked because Nikolai was already addicted. Read his bio - he was already a raging drunk when he was captured. 

 

Also, you speak very confidently but I can assure you for 1) @Tac is one of the most well-researched individuals in the community and has memorized quotes and radios most folks don't even know exist, and 2) the Keepers are most certainly the Vril Ya; the evidence has been glaring. That's not to say the Vril are Keepers, as the Keepers are a faction of said race, further reinforced by the recent cipher shedding light on the history of the Apothicon-Keeper war. Meaning that the Apothicons are actually evolved and corrupted Vril as well. 

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1 hour ago, NaBrZHunter said:

 

To the contrary, it has been presumed that the serum actually worked because Nikolai was already addicted. Read his bio - he was already a raging drunk when he was captured. 

 

Also, you speak very confidently but I can assure you for 1) @Tac is one of the most well-researched individuals in the community and has memorized quotes and radios most folks don't even know exist, and 2) the Keepers are most certainly the Vril Ya; the evidence has been glaring. That's not to say the Vril are Keepers, as the Keepers are a faction of said race, further reinforced by the recent cipher shedding light on the history of the Apothicon-Keeper war. Meaning that the Apothicons are actually evolved and corrupted Vril as well. 

The serum DID work, and i said that, however the fact the so far other than Richtofen, the other two characters Takeo, and Nikolie were not Richtofens test subjects. They were not with him nor were they captured. For Nikolie in BO3, was addicted the old fashion way, drinking to forget emotional pain, but not because of some serum as part of an experiment.

Thanks you for telling me about the Vril, it helped because i never thought of it that way.

Edited by AMPLIFIED CHAOS
I forgot one piece

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NaBrZHunter    491
14 minutes ago, AMPLIFIED CHAOS said:

The serum DID work, and i said that, however the fact the so far other than Richtofen, the other two characters Takeo, and Nikolie were not Richtofens test subjects. They were not with him nor were they captured. For Nikolie in BO3, was addicted the old fashion way, drinking to forget emotional pain, but not because of some serum as part of an experiment.

Thanks you for telling me about the Vril, it helped because i never thought of it that way.

You missed my point - Nikolai has always drank to drown the pain. Back in World at War his wife died, and he was thrown on the front lines of the war where he drank to forget. 

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