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InfestLithium

Der Eisendrache (in a nutshell)

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InfestLithium    515

So after playing this map all too many times just to complete the Easter Egg w/ @Doppelgänger and @NaBrZHunter, I got to thinking - what exactly are we dealing with in this map? Specifically, story implications and what they lead beyond Zestubou No Shima. In order to get a better understanding for myself (and to hopefully see everyone's input) on certain questions that are still to be answered, here are the most common and intriguing questions regarding Der Eisendrache:

 

1) What became of Groph?

 

There is already a topic discussing this, but if you have completed the Easter Egg, you are well aware that the Moon becomes annihilated, and Griffin Station with it. We can assume that there are teleporters on the Moon, but then we gotta ask this: where do those teleporters lead to? And if we did figure out a location, would Groph be dead or did he manage to leave before the rockets hit the station? I'm really curious to see what everyone says about this.

 

2) Is Samantha in control of the zombies here?

 

It's a very iffy situation. I say yes; however, it's the Samantha of this universe controlling them rather than the Samantha we save in Origins/ Samantha that's supposedly in the House. Because this universe is shared by the Giant, we know that Maxis and Sam were betrayed and teleported by Richtofen 1.0. But we also know that the MPD on Moon, when teleported to the anti-gravity chamber of Der Eisendrache, only the Keeper resides in the Moon MPD. So what happened to Samantha? Her physical body should be inside the pyramid yet it isn't.

 

3) What is the history behind the castle?

 

This is such a little-commented portion of the map, but I always find it intriguing when I dig into it. Let me start off by explaining the backstory a bit: when doing the Wolf Bow steps, the first step requires you to activate four paintings in a random order before getting your arrow. Little do most people know that most of the steps correlate to the origins of the castle's last occupancy prior to Group 935.

 

Long ago, there was a knight who was part of the royal guard. The knight was a brave war solider, and eventually rose to the throne as king. He held the wolf insignia as his battle crest and was known throughout the lands as the Wolf King. Suddenly, a darkness swept the land and from a hole in the sky came an Apothicon monstrosity. The villages were set ablaze and an war was fought between the King's men and the dimensional creatures. The King won the war, and the Apothicons retreated back into the void, defeated. An unknown time after, the King was struck by a few arrows during battle and died alongside his faithful wolf companions. His corpse was laid to rest at the highest point of the chamber beneath Hall of the Ancients.

Now this is all told by the paintings, remainder of the Easter Egg, and some items found all the way from Samantha/Maxis' rooms to the anti-gravity chamber themselves. Clearly, the Apothicons have attempted to conquer the universe before but were defeated. Interestingly enough, the bones of the King's wolves sit next to the Wolf Bow chest, next to one of the Keeper statues. Did the King receive help from the Keepers to defeat the Apothicons during the great war, and commemorated the Keepers as great protectors of the castle? It would explain why the armor of a solider with the Vril Device slot produces a Keeper spirit.

 

4) What corrupted the Keeper when it came back from Griffin Station?

 

After much discussion, I'm inclined to believe that Groph attempted to trap the Keeper within the MPD. And whatever resided in the MPD (evil that also inhabited Samantha during Black Ops 1) corrupted the Keeper. Hence, why Richtofen mentions that Groph must've corrupted the creature. We know that Keepers - while powerful - aren't inherently evil. In fact, they are ancient guardians who will only attack when they feel threatened as seen in here and Shadows of Evil. When the Keeper returns to Earth, note how it floats above the Moon MPD - similar to the style of Samantha during the Moon easter egg. This leads me to a follow up question:

 

5) Is the Keeper boss battle set within the realm which the darkness lives inside the MPD?

 

I mean, it seems obvious. You teleport to an unknown area with the corrupted yet larger Keeper byt DG-4ing the anti-gravity panels around the pyramid. It seems like you teleport to the within the MPD on a dimensional level. If you happen to have your birghtness up while in that stage, note how there is no opening beyond the cold walls of the room. Additionally, the pillars circling around the center appear...ancient in architecture, definitely beyond human conception. Is this the throne of the MPD where the controller's spirit resides in?

 

6) Why does Maxis not keep contact with the crew?

 

In The Giant, we only talk to Maxis when activating the Fly Trap easter egg (the beacon becomes lit). However, in Der Eisendrache, he never speaks to us again. We know that he has a secret plan with Richtofen that the rest of the crew does not know about. But if they all know they must kill their 1.0 selves at the correct time and event, what is this hidden agenda that Maxis has entrusted in Richtofen? And where the hell is he to help us out? Maxis was helping the crew kill many Richtofen X.0s prior to them meeting up with Richtofen in The Giant.

Can't wait to hear the responses and insight! :smiley:

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Rissole25    378

I'll have a crack at those questions.

 

1. What became of Groph?

For all intents and purposes, Groph is most likely dead. I don't think the teleporter up there would be linked to Area 51 at that time. Richtofen seemed to have first teleported in Der Riese, so a connection would've at least been from there. But Maxis said he would destroy the site. Logically Der Eisendrache/Eagles Nest would have a connection with it, but maybe it just was not active. Or maybe he didn't have enough time (lol it takes forever for Dempseys rocket to not even get there, but rockets going to destroy the Earth/Moon take 30 seconds?). Ultimately though I think he is dead. Although Milo did ask Blundell if Groph was dead, and B just said "Pass" I believe. Leaves it open if they wanted to bring him back, but ya I think he is deadeded.

 

2) Is Samantha in control of the zombies here?

This one is tough. Like the signs are there that it's her, the yellow eyes, the box laugh, firesale music, announcer voice. Richtofen even says stuff (I'll get onto that in a sec) when getting power-ups. But, it kinda seems like they've completely forgotten about Maxis and Samantha of this verse. They should have ended up on at Griffin Station. But they never did. Groph doesn't even know Maxis and Samantha have been taken care of until Richtofen says he already has in DE. And we know Groph saw and spoke to Maxis and Samantha on the Moon. But it never happened (he did have dreams though of them being there, I imagine it is parts of that universe bleeding over into this one like how our characters have some memories of the 1.0's.
So yeah, they didn't end up in the MPD. No idea where they could have gone, but they're not even talking about them and you'd think Richtofen would make a bigger deal out of it if they didn't turn up on Griffin Station like they should've. So maybe they really did die like we originally thought when hearing the Der Riese radios?
This is also brings up Shadows of Evil, which ya know is all Apothicon influenced. But, again the tell tale signs of Samantha. This is a completely different universe mind you. So all I can think of is that it is Origins Sam who is the announcer. And I don't think she is good. She was shifty in Origins, and Richtofen when getting the power-ups says "I know who you really are Samantha" and other similar quotes suggesting it's not her, and maybe someone impersonating her?

3) What is the history behind the castle?

I think you're on the right track here. Another piece of evidence that supports this, is that in the second portrait I think, the helmet the king wears is also seen on the Shadows of Evil mural.

 

4) What corrupted the Keeper when it came back from Griffin Station?

The MPD could be the answer, I mean I would say it corrupted Samantha but in a more mental sense. All we have to go on is that Richtofen thinks it was caused by Groph. It is missing a filled soul canister, so it's possible Groph knocked it off and that did some wacky shit to the Keeper. He does shout for it to get away, so maybe he used some 935 gadget on it or just did something to the Keeper directly.
 

5) Is the Keeper boss battle set within the realm which the darkness lives inside the MPD?

Yeah I don't know. It seems like an old barrow/crypt. There are 3 holes in the roof. And the statues and dragon eggs seem like Division 9 would have some connection with it. But there really isn't enough to say if it's physically in the world or in a different dimension/in side the MPD.

 

6) Why does Maxis not keep contact with the crew?

Richtofen mentions Maxis may not be able to contact them at Eagles Nest although I'm not sure why. But it explains why he isn't there. But I thought that was just for one map, so I was surprised he wasn't in Zetsubou No Shima (he does have some ciphers addressed to Richtofen, but he isn't physically there like The Giant). He doesn't need electronic devices like he did in BO2 I believe, so not sure what could be blocking him. But due to what was said in the ciphers, I imagine we will have to hear from him in the next map, and if not that, definitely the last map.

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anonymous    325

1-What become of Groph?

When does Groph talks for the last time to Richthofen? Is there enough time between that and the missles strike to escape?

2-Is Samantha in control?

When Samantha teleported to Griffin Station in the Nacht-Buried universe, she didn't immediatly was in the MPD. She teleported somewhere in the Moon base, and was scared and runned by accident in the MPD, which was just opened by Groph and Schuster in order of Richthofen. On a drawing of Sam in DE, we see she is visited by a Keeper. Things are different in this universe: Perhaps she didnt run scared in the MPD, perhaps she even didnt teleported to Moon. On the other hand, we havent seen any sign of her, she just dissappeared after the teleportation.

3-Backstory castle?

Cant say it better than you.

4- What corrupted the Keeper?

Excellent note, havent thought of that. Like we hear in the Ascension Musical EE, the person the the MPD slowly becomes evil.

5- Keeper boss battle in other realm?

I havent done the EE, so I dont know this place (only heard of it).

6-Why does Maxis doesnt make contact?

What Rissole says could be the answer

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Nieno69    126

I will do it like jason to 1,2,4,5?6

 

-"Pass"

 

I agree with you in the most parts...

 

But about 3: the story

 

"Long ago, there was a knight who was part of the royal guard. The knight was a brave war solider, and eventually rose to the throne as king. He held the wolf insignia as his battle crest and was known throughout the lands as the Wolf King. Suddenly, a darkness swept the land and from a hole in the sky came an Apothicon monstrosity. The villages were set ablaze and an war was fought between the King's men and the dimensional creatures."

 

These are the pictures 1-3 thats ok...

 

The King won the war, and the Apothicons retreated back into the void, defeated. An unknown time after, the King was struck by a few arrows during battle and died alongside his faithful wolf companions.

 

But i dont know about the fourth picture.... why do you think they won?  Could also be a story of a lost universe....  

 

 

The end -

His corpse was laid to rest at the highest point of the chamber beneath Hall of the Ancients.

 

 

 

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NaBrZHunter    489

1) What became of Groph?

Although Jason has given us a cryptic answer to that question, I think it's fair to say he perished on the moon. And I must point out that we don't actually know where Richtofen first teleported from. The walnut prototype could be at any of the 935 locations. The fact that it was kept secret from Maxis, however, seems to imply that perhaps it was actually at Eagle's Nest. Maxis seemed to make Der Riese his headquarters, only occasionally visiting the castle. And since the Area 51 teleporter shouldn't exist at this time, the only link should be between Eagle's Nest and Griffin Station.

 

2) Is Samantha in control of the zombies here?

I think it's safe to say at this point that we don't fully understand eye color, as the debate has been raging since the time of the Cryogenic Slumber Party. The WAW Verruckt and Nacht zombies pre-date Samantha's occupancy of the MPD, and (though it can be "explained" by the story's evolution), have still set a precedent of yellow-eyed zombies being unrelated to Samantha. Someone once made a rather sensible explanation of Richtofen's blue-eyed zombies, suggesting that it stemmed from his even further twisted Nazi Aryan belief in the "pure race," one of the traits of which was blue eyes. Lorence Horner, M.A. in History says of this mindset:

Quote

"As for the Nazi Party's fixation on purported Aryan features, such as blonde hair and blue eyes...a lot of their ideas on the supposed superior physical traits of the Aryan or Nordic type, as well as the inferiority of the non-white and Slavic peoples, came from the so-called racialist thinkers and social Darwinists of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries...  
So, in effect, Nazi standards of beauty and superior racial traits were based on ideas that were not original to themselves."

The Nordic part is quite interesting to me @Tac.

 

4) What corrupted the Keeper when it came back from Griffin Station?

So, we know a few things:

  • Richtofen states that the keeper was corrupted on its way back to earth, not so much at Griffin Station. 
  • Richtofen also points out that Groph did indeed deliberately sabotage the MPD. Based on the fact that there is black smoke rising from the base of the missing canister, it would come as no surprise that it could cause some corruption. Honestly, the keeper looks rather unwell when he rises from inside, his head hanging and he seems to move as if trying to escape. 
  • Keepers are not invulnerable to physical weapons

 

So your suggestion that he was trapped was perhaps accurate to a certain extent, in that, when Groph saw he could not stop the Keeper from entering the MPD, he smashed the canister (as heard in the transmission, and also attempted to shoot the Keeper (which does indeed inflict damage, as we know from Shadows of Evil and Origins), and perhaps, in a way, this deprived the Keeper of necessary life support, and like a human too long without oxygen, caused a certain level of brain death.

 

BTW, why TF isn't the pyramid black? -_- Some of these inconsistencies, I swear. I'm going to write Treyarch a list of continuity errors.

 

5) Is the Keeper boss battle set within the realm which the darkness lives inside the MPD?

I wouldn't say so. I'm thinking the view inside the MPD is probably a bit more televisible and less "ancient." The terrain of the boss fight room, especially the presence of the dragons seems to be associated with the castle itself. 

 

6) Why does Maxis not keep contact with the crew?

As someone else mentioned, Maxis had warned Richtofen that his signal would be impeded at the castle for some reason or another.

 

 

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Tac    462

What became of Groph?

Agreed completely with @Rissole25 and @NaBrZHunter; I think he's dead.

 

On 5/13/2016 at 1:02 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

And I must point out that we don't actually know where Richtofen first teleported from. The walnut prototype could be at any of the 935 locations. The fact that it was kept secret from Maxis, however, seems to imply that perhaps it was actually at Eagle's Nest. Maxis seemed to make Der Riese his headquarters, only occasionally visiting the castle. And since the Area 51 teleporter shouldn't exist at this time, the only link should be between Eagle's Nest and Griffin Station.

 

Well, we know the Area 51 teleporter does exist. Not that I think he used that teleporter, and he likely did not, but it ought to be pointed out.

 

Is Samantha in Control?

I think that Blundell saying the Moon loading screen variant was canon should be considered in all of this. Samantha appears to be a shadow on not the Moon, as before, but Mars (or at least Shangri-La pre-transportation, wherever that may be).

 

What Corrupted the Keeper?

On 5/13/2016 at 1:02 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

So your suggestion that he was trapped was perhaps accurate to a certain extent, in that, when Groph saw he could not stop the Keeper from entering the MPD, he smashed the canister (as heard in the transmission, and also attempted to shoot the Keeper (which does indeed inflict damage, as we know from Shadows of Evil and Origins), and perhaps, in a way, this deprived the Keeper of necessary life support, and like a human too long without oxygen, caused a certain level of brain death.

 

I don't think we can say that the Keeper took damage from Groph when above the MPD. We couldn't harm Samantha either, though as a human she too would take damage from these weapons.

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