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jiipee95

Did double pack-a-puch ruin zombies?

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jiipee95    35

Okay so let's get a discussion going here. I'd like to point out that since BO1 I personally wanted to get double pack-a-punch. In BO3 we got it, but it's not what I imagined. I thought it would be a slight increase in damage and ammo (maybe add an extra attachment or something). Something that would make the game slightly easier as in BO1 ammo and firepower was something that lost it's grip at certain rounds. And I thought it would be expensive... like 25000 points... at least 10000 points.

In BO3 we got the double pack-a-punch which basically gives you this "special ammo".  There are 5 types which you guys probably already know how they work (Dead wire, Blast Furnace, Fireworks, Thunder wall, Turned). The upgrade costs only 2500 points. Now the problem is that the effect of the double pack-a-punch is so much bigger than regular PAP and yet it's only half price... And these upgrades turns any gun into a wonder weapon.

Which leads to the wonder weapons we have in BO3. Now The Apothican Servant is very powerful but has very limited ammo which is a good thing. But if we look at the bows on Der Eisendrache... They have so much ammo... And I think it's because they just have to have a lot of ammo to not be overpowered by RK5 with DPAP upgrade... But the wonder weapons have to be very overpowered to actually compete with any DPAP weapon off wall (cause you can buy ammo on those).

Anyways what do you think? Is DPAP good as it is or do you think they should have made it differently?

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Koslans    39

It didn't really ruin it, but I like the double pack-a-punch in Black Ops 2 better.

The difference with the wonder weapons and the elemental wallguns is still large enough in my opinion.
Sure, blast furnace can kill a wave. However, unlike a wonderweapon, it's not really guaranteed to work. 

Another argument I've heard is that the mystery box has become less useful. 
They may be onto something there. I rarely play higher rounds and I'm overall fine with a vanilla gun and a decent training spot. 
Or I hit the box for fun, just to see what I have to play with. I rarely pack a punch, and even less often do the double one. 
So I'm no expert on this. But, I think it's a good thing for more and new players to enjoy zombies. 

Overall, they may seem overpowered, but it also opens new possibilities. Like holding off in a terrible spot with 'turned'. 
As for the fact that the elements kill zombies at any round, doesn't really change the way you can make a mistake and get cornered. 
Especially with 7 Margwa's running on the map, lol. And a round 30+ Panzer is a round 30+ Panzer anyways. Double pack or not, he's tough! 

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I mean, somehow my team still manages to go down and rage-quit by round 12 so no I don't think this ruined zombies. 

 

Likewise, I think it's a great edition. It adds a new element to the PAP where as before it was quite bland. Once I paped a weapon in BO1 or BO2, it became somewhat useless after round X. But now I can use ANY weapon on ANY round (aside from the rocket launcher, ray gun, and Starting pistols). 

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jiipee95    35
2 minutes ago, Koslans said:

It didn't really ruin it, but I like the double pack-a-punch in Black Ops 2 better.

The difference with the wonder weapons and the elemental wallguns is still large enough in my opinion.
Sure, blast furnace can kill a wave. However, unlike a wonderweapon, it's not really guaranteed to work. 

Another argument I've heard is that the mystery box has become less useful. 
They may be onto something there. I rarely play higher rounds and I'm overall fine with a vanilla gun and a decent training spot. 
Or I hit the box for fun, just to see what I have to play with. I rarely pack a punch, and even less often do the double one. 
So I'm no expert on this. But, I think it's a good thing for more and new players to enjoy zombies. 

Overall, they may seem overpowered, but it also opens new possibilities. Like holding off in a terrible spot with 'turned'. 
As for the fact that the elements kill zombies at any round, doesn't really change the way you can make a mistake and get cornered. 
Especially with 7 Margwa's running on the map, lol. And a round 30+ Panzer is a round 30+ Panzer anyways. Double pack or not, he's tough! 

Yeah It's still a big difference between wonder weapons and normal, but they are capable of killing a train with just few bullets... Meaning you're never going to run out of ammo. If you get cornered those upgrades pretty much can't help you which actually is a good thing as it balances it a bit.

The mystery box is just a waste of points now... The base damage of the weapons doesn't mean anything cause on DPAP any gun can kill a horde. Also I think most wall weapons have much more ammo than the ones had in earlier games (might remember incorrectly) HVK with dead wire is pretty much all you need + ´something to get away from a tough place. 

The bosses are now my favorite thing actually cause it's the round when the chance of failing is on it's highest. 

2 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

I mean, somehow my team still manages to go down and rage-quit by round 12 so no I don't think this ruined zombies. 

 

Likewise, I think it's a great edition. It adds a new element to the PAP where as before it was quite bland. Once I paped a weapon in BO1 or BO2, it became somewhat useless after round X. But now I can use ANY weapon on ANY round (aside from the rocket launcher, ray gun, and Starting pistols). 

Yeah in BO1 and BO2 I wanted a DPAP too. But now you can use any gun after round x is the biggest problem... cause the game just doesn't have "bad" weapons anymore besides the rocket launcher, starting pistol and ray gun. With PHD those wouldn't be that bad actually, but you still can't get them DPAP which makes them overwhelmed by sheiva... 

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Nieno69    126

People who know the mechanics and have time to play reach round 100 with double pap or without it... it will only take less time - so its not op in my opinion

The only mistake they have made is that the kill with the extra bullet gives points and kill count for e.g. dead wire - thats op 

So noone i know will use turned(weakest) or blast furnance when they try to lvl up and max out their weapon kits when they can get dead wire...

 

 

Maybe we get a little ee for "turned" - i would like this....

 

And what people forget - double paped give you special bullets AND make the normal hits stronger (i'm pretty sure while lvl up my weapon kits they get stronger after dpap-try it yourself with the dragon)

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NaBrZHunter    488

I agree wholeheartedly. Putting weapons like the HVK and Vesper on the wall is dealing a death blow to the box as such weapons are comparable to BO1's Galil (HVK) and Commando (Vesper). As a person who generally relies on wall guns, this hardly harms me, but it does limit my experience and eliminates my fondness for the Mystery Box, especially since the Box presents no possibility of a wonder weapon. 

If I have the HVK, what more, besides monkeys, will I want from the box? I have unlimited ammo for one of the best guns in the game taking into consideration weight, ammo count, damage and accuracy, and I can PAP it and make it even more powerful.

Honestly, I'd rather be forced to survive using the VMP, Kuda, or even more powerful KN-44, a weapon I would no doubt keep in reserve, but wouldn't prevent me from going for something more powerful such as the HVK, or relatively equal, like the ICR or Vesper. I liked being presented with the challenge of having an empty PAP'd Galil in hand, pulling a box and having to make a rush decision whether to hold onto it in hopes of a max ammo, or bite the bullet and trade it in for a stock Aug. But now, why would I? The HVK will last me longer than most weapons. 

And the bows...don't even get me started. Granted, Der Eisendrache would be EXTREMELY difficult without them, but not as difficult as Shang, and actually, probably about the same as Ascension. I wish you at least had to hit your target. In the past, such weapons did exist (Ray Gun, Mustang and Sally) but you had to use one of you perk slots on PHD Flopper, whereas now, no such sacrifice need be made. 

On another note, please, Treyarch, for the feels...please replace the HVK wall buys with the HG-40. Please? 

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Doppelgänger    150

What really ruins it is the price. 2500 points for a Re-Packed weapon? That's absolutely nothing, especially once you reach the higher rounds. I can't think of a single time where I was worried about the price of Re-Packing after using the Pack-a-Punch. Not to mention, unlike Perk a Colas, you don't lose the Alternate Ammo on your weapon, which absolutely ruins the threat of going down. 

I agree that the Mystery Box has become completely redundant and like @NaBrZHunter mentioned, the Re-Pack ability mixed with wall weapons like the HVK, VMP, Kuda and the KN-44 is absolutely over powered. Even the 4500 points to purchase more ammunition from the wall buy doesn't become a problem once you climb higher and higher into the rounds. If anything, they need to turn up the prices on the Alternate Ammo types. Perhaps another 5000 points to Re-Pack the weapon and 6000 points to purchase Re-Packed ammunition, just something to make the purchase something to think about.

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40 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

 

On another note, please, Treyarch, for the feels...please replace the HVK wall buys with the HG-40. Please? 

Wait... Why? The HVK has a superior rate of fire and to my knowledge, faster DPS (damage per second). 

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Doppelgänger    150
2 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

Wait... Why? The HVK has a superior rate of fire and to my knowledge, faster DPS (damage per second). 

I think he means for just nostalgia purposes and I'd have to agree. If not the HVK, swap the VMP.

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jiipee95    35
9 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

What really ruins it is the price. 2500 points for a Re-Packed weapon? That's absolutely nothing, especially once you reach the higher rounds. I can't think of a single time where I was worried about the price of Re-Packing after using the Pack-a-Punch. Not to mention, unlike Perk a Colas, you don't lose the Alternate Ammo on your weapon, which absolutely ruins the threat of going down. 

I agree that the Mystery Box has become completely redundant and like @NaBrZHunter mentioned, the Re-Pack ability mixed with wall weapons like the HVK, VMP, Kuda and the KN-44 is absolutely over powered. Even the 4500 points to purchase more ammunition from the wall buy doesn't become a problem once you climb higher and higher into the rounds. If anything, they need to turn up the prices on the Alternate Ammo types. Perhaps another 5000 points to Re-Pack the weapon and 6000 points to purchase Re-Packed ammunition, just something to make the purchase something to think about.

Yeah they should definitely raise the prices on both DPAP and the DPAP ammo... since there's 5 alternatives i think 5000 points would be good for DPAP but the price of the ammo on the wall is a bit harder cause some of the DPAP upgrades won't give you points at all and dead wire/blast furnace gives you tons... 

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DaveLo07    172

I don't think it ruined zombies, but it has negatively affected the balance of play and is making weapon choice redundant. I feel like they could have implemented a tiered pack-a-punch in a much more effective way.

The Giant is a good example. I used to really enjoy using the wunderwaffe, but in BO3 it is terrible. Given the fact that I can take any wall weapon with dead wire and it will be more effective, and I can also change the effect on that wall weapon to blast furnace, turned, fireworks or thunder wall, the wonder weapon on that map is now obsolete. 

The other issue is strategy. It seems the 2 options available for high rounds are camping in a corner shooting the floor, or training with ammo variants and shooting one zombie to activate the effect. They could have given us so much more. I prefer camping over training, but there should be some level of skill involved. The option to re-pack a gun to increase fire power without ammo variants could improve the competitive side of the gameplay. I would love to be able to camp on round 50, but have to pick off every headshot with a sniper rifle. And they could make the second upgrade much more expensive to balance it out. 

I feel that like the buildables and transportation in BO2, the double pack-a-punch/ammo variants are one of the gimmicks in BO3, and it has been implemented poorly.

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NaBrZHunter    488
55 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

Wait... Why? The HVK has a superior rate of fire and to my knowledge, faster DPS (damage per second). 

 

50 minutes ago, Doppelgänger said:

I think he means for just nostalgia purposes and I'd have to agree. If not the HVK, swap the VMP.

Believe me, the HVK is currently my favorite weapon in BO3, either in MP or Zombies. But I'd rather it be in the box. I'd prefer to gamble for it. It's far too powerful to be a wall weapon. As I mentioned in my previous post, it's on par with the Galil of previous games. 

Replacing it with the HG-40 would be a win-win-win, specifically, the classic weapon of zombies survival would be available as a wall weapon, it would be of a standard wall-weapon caliber, and the HVK being a box-exlusive would provide more incentive to use the box. 

The reason I didn't suggest swapping for the VMP is because the VMP is a worthy wall weapon. It may have a high rate of fire, but it hasn't a ton of ammo and can be a little awkward to use. 

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This is another reason why they should add the new weapons to the Box in all maps. 

Not so much the MX Garand or HG-40, but the Marshal 16s would be BEAST and I would TOTALLY use the box again to get those. Unfortunately, they only appear in ZNS at the moment...

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jiipee95    35
33 minutes ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

This is another reason why they should add the new weapons to the Box in all maps. 

Not so much the MX Garand or HG-40, but the Marshal 16s would be BEAST and I would TOTALLY use the box again to get those. Unfortunately, they only appear in ZNS at the moment...

Yeah totally. As been said At the moment the box doesn't have much anything better than what you can get off-wall. Also now box also features the wall weapons? If I remember correctly in BO1 and BO2 it didn't... It's just that the box seems even more of a waste when there's a chance to get that wall weapon anyway. Also I wonder why the new weapons didn't get their own weapon kits... It just makes them a worse option compared to a weapon you have 5 attachments and the sight you want. Marshall's are great, but HG-40 and MX Garand won't stand out in any way because of this :/ 

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Greer    9

A lot of people I know have said they find the quests to get the wonder weapons pretty hard, even though I completely disagree with that, the double PaP gives them an alternative. I use a mix of the Kuda with Blast Furnace and the Storm Bow because honestly they're equally as good (although blast furnace can't get you out of a horde you get trapped in). With that said, I think they should be more expensive, considering the effectiveness. Either that or add a larger variety of them, and have some be good and bad, make it more like using the mystery box in the sense that you could get a load of shit from it, or something good like dead wire

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I think it's a great addition. God knows I have great memories of the Black Ops 1 days, but it was always the same - guys like Superhands, 5and5 and Pish would invent high round strategies, and everyone would use the same strategy because it worked better than any other strategy we knew at the time. There was no individuality. However, without these extra ammo types, it's not as if people were struggling to get to high rounds, far from. We made do with what we were given and it wasn't a problem.

With Black Ops 3, we now have several ways to play each map. You can use traps, you can use special ammo, you can use the wonder weapon, and each of these weapons and types of ammo are suited to different play styles. So now if you visit the Zombie Records leaderboards and watch all the tops records for each BO3 map, there are different strategies being used to suit the player that holds the record, rather than everyone using the same strategy due to limited options. It's not as if the rounds people are getting to on BO3 are higher than those people got to on BO1, at all. It's fair to say that more people are achieving such rounds these days, but that's where the guys of the past eras like some of those I mentioned above raised the bar and set standards for the modern players.

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