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OwN_Avenged

Are all maps different timelines?

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OwN_Avenged    3

Hello, fellow CoD Zombies players, and welcome to this little theory-ish thing that I created after just watching the end cut scene of Zetsubou No Shima *Obviously, spoilers*.

Is every map in Black Ops III different timelines? Now, my reasoning for this is because after watching the end cut scene, it literally made no sense to me. First off, our old Takeo was never that beat down. He still loved the emperor and still believed he had his honor. Also, although we wouldn't know if he did or not, from our knowledge, he never went to a Division 9 facility. 

In our original timeline, this never happened, or at least from what we know, it didn't. 
 

Now, I'll talk about evidence in Der Eisendrache.

It is completely possible for Dempsey to have been tested on, on the moon,but not really believable.

BUT, why would we blow it up if Samantha was on the moon? That makes no sense. I doubt Richtofen would kill Samantha. 
One more thing that stands out to me, is the fact that Richtofen uses the summoning key to use rift portals the leave where Old Takeo just died, The last time we saw Richtofen use a rift portal, it was to travel through dimensions. 

So here's my theory: Is Richtofen going through different dimensions, killing different versions of our characters?
Clearly, the Richtofen that got killed, was OUR Richtofen that we once knew. We're unsure if the Dempsey is the same Dempsey, but it doesn't seem like he's from the same universe as old Richtofen, because if he was, Richtofen wouldn't just blow up the moon, along with Samantha.
And this Takeo clearly can't be the original Takeo. You could say that it's the old Takeo, just in the future, but that doesn't make any sense at all. 

There's is one flaw I see in this, and that's that there is a note in Der Eisendrache that is written by Takeo about going to spy on Division 9. But I'm just going to cop out and say: 115 Displacement.


Tell me what you think about this?
 

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Edited by OwN_Avenged

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Tac    462

Our main timelines are the original, and this new one. World at War up through Buried (with the possible exception of MoTD) was on universe, and The Giant, Der Eisendrache, and Zetsubou No Shima is another. The Richtofen that we killed was not the one from the original timeline, but a very similar one from a very similar timeline. That is why Samantha is not in the MPD on the Moon, because the timelines are only very similar, but not the same.

29 minutes ago, OwN_Avenged said:

Is every map in Black Ops III different timelines? Now, my reasoning for this is because after watching the end cut scene, it literally made no sense to me. First off, our old Takeo was never that beat down. He still loved the emperor and still believed he had his honor. Also, although we wouldn't know if he did or not, from our knowledge, he never went to a Division 9 facility.
...
You could say that it's the old Takeo, just in the future, but that doesn't make any sense at all.

Well, we could tell that he still had that old part in himself ("I was a warrior...") but was beaten down when he heard that the Emperor was dishonorable. All I can think of is that at this point, he hadn't been brainwashed yet by Group 935, and that was the point when he was "reset," so to speak? You don't think that could make sense?

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@Tac makes absolute sense. I've noticed that people are forgetting the memory loss the 1.0's suffered during the Group 935 experiments. So it's completely reasonable to assume that in the original timeline, the reason for Takeo not knowing of the Emperors betrayal is due to this. It actually makes a little bit of sense really. If Takeo is this valued warrior whole the Emperor values above all others. Would he not move the heavens and Earth to rescue him from captivity? Even with the Japanese tradition of dying with honour and commuting Sepeku rather than being taken prisoner, I'm sure the Emperor would circumvent this to get Takeo back. Unless he had set up Takeo in the first place, which is seemingly what happened given our new revelations. 

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Another thing that you said doesn't sit with me well either: 

I don't think the summoning key makes portals. I think that's maxis. My reasoning? 

-We see richtofen come out of a portal BEFORE he has the summoning key. How could he do that if the summoning key was held by other people? 

-a cipher in ZNS reveals using teleporters to cross universes is risky, yet we see richtofen do this WHILE IN POSSESSION of the summoning key. Why would he do this if the summoning key could pave a path for him with presumably much less risk? 

-Maxis's voice can be heard through a rift/portal in SOE as he addresses survivors of that dimension. At the time maxis did not have a summoning key. 

-We have to send a keeper to get the MPD on the moon. Why do that when you could just make a portal from A to B. If maxis crafted the portals it makes sense as Maxis can't contact richtofen here. 

 

 

As for your theory, it's possible, but then I have to counter with the fact we KNOW that extraction from the giant led the crew directly to DE via giant Robot, so Dempsey 1.0 is in the same universe as Richtofen 1.0 without a doubt. 

Takeo is still up on the table, however I believe the notes left in DE are evidence enough that this takeo is the same as this richtofen and this dempsey. 

Remember we KNOW this isn't the ORIGINAL universe (or at least not the universe that we progressed through in WAW, BO1, and most of BO2) this is evident by samantha not ending up in the MPD, for some reason richtofen carried out the execution of Sam and Maxis early (evident by groph's quotes in DE), and now, we see that Takeo has been plant-i-fied instead of being directly expiramented on by richtofen. 

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anonymous    327

In the BO3 universe the nazi crosses from the nacht-buried universe are replaced for the German Iron Cross, the symbol of Germany during WW1. It is possible that in this universe Germany and Austro-Hungary won WW1, and so not causing a crisis in Germany which made many Germans poor so the Nazis didnt took the power. But if thats true, it is strange that Groph talks about the allies may concurred Der Riese and Gersch talking about Stalingrad in fire. Both of these events only happened in WW2.

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Greer    9

A general rule of thumb is the colour of the 115 somewhat identifies the universe. In the original universe, it was red, and called Ununpentium. In this universe we're currently in the 115 is blue and called Divinium. It doesn't always apply, but it's pretty much always that way. That said, the universe that Origins is in isn't the same as The Giant, DE and ZNS

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6 minutes ago, Greer said:

A general rule of thumb is the colour of the 115 somewhat identifies the universe. In the original universe, it was red, and called Ununpentium. In this universe we're currently in the 115 is blue and called Divinium. It doesn't always apply, but it's pretty much always that way. That said, the universe that Origins is in isn't the same as The Giant, DE and ZNS

I think it is the same universe, but time isn't affected by Origins so it doesn't altar what we are seeing in maps.

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NaBrZHunter    491
3 hours ago, anonymous said:

In the BO3 universe the nazi crosses from the nacht-buried universe are replaced for the German Iron Cross, the symbol of Germany during WW1. It is possible that in this universe Germany and Austro-Hungary won WW1, and so not causing a crisis in Germany which made many Germans poor so the Nazis didnt took the power. But if thats true, it is strange that Groph talks about the allies may concurred Der Riese and Gersch talking about Stalingrad in fire. Both of these events only happened in WW2.

The crosses were actually also used by Nazi Germany. In fact, the cross was used in Black Ops 1 for the German release of Kino so that it wouldn't be banned due to the swastikas. This universe has proceeded along the same timeline as our own up until recently.

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So I've got a little theory as to why we don't see any swastikas in BO3. Remember in the O4 timeline, Group 935 sought funding from the Nazis in return for weapons research. Group 935 were scientists from around the globe. Richtofen makes this very clear in his reservations with seeking help from the Nazis. I have a feeling that the only reason we see the swastika in the past was as a result of this partnership, and why we don't see it now is that in this current timeline/universe, that never happened. So what might explain this? First there's the reveal of Division 9. Clearly they are working together, possibly sharing the load on multiple projects which might keep the cost of research lower. Also of note is how the characters describe the nations involved in the war. They're mostly described by those affiliated with the Germans or Axis powers in some way, so it's often referred to as the "German war machine". Which makes sense, as it would be the allies who would refer to them as the Nazis. Plus the Nazis were a political party, the military was still the German military. Things such as the SS were very specific branches of the military. You wouldn't refer to the U.S. Military as the Republican or Democratic army. So while I think the Nazis still exist in the current timeline, their influence is not nearly as important to the narrative as it is less focused on the politics involved, and more on stopping Group 935 and setting things right. 

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NaBrZHunter    491
3 hours ago, tEfugleskremmel said:

So I've got a little theory as to why we don't see any swastikas in BO3. Remember in the O4 timeline, Group 935 sought funding from the Nazis in return for weapons research. Group 935 were scientists from around the globe. Richtofen makes this very clear in his reservations with seeking help from the Nazis. I have a feeling that the only reason we see the swastika in the past was as a result of this partnership, and why we don't see it now is that in this current timeline/universe, that never happened. So what might explain this? First there's the reveal of Division 9. Clearly they are working together, possibly sharing the load on multiple projects which might keep the cost of research lower. Also of note is how the characters describe the nations involved in the war. They're mostly described by those affiliated with the Germans or Axis powers in some way, so it's often referred to as the "German war machine". Which makes sense, as it would be the allies who would refer to them as the Nazis. Plus the Nazis were a political party, the military was still the German military. Things such as the SS were very specific branches of the military. You wouldn't refer to the U.S. Military as the Republican or Democratic army. So while I think the Nazis still exist in the current timeline, their influence is not nearly as important to the narrative as it is less focused on the politics involved, and more on stopping Group 935 and setting things right. 

Sounds like a really cheap and helpless retcon, but it's about the best researched and presented explanation I've heard so far. Treyarch, are you watching this? ;)

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Tac    462
6 hours ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

I think it is the same universe, but time isn't affected by Origins so it doesn't altar what we are seeing in maps.

Would you be able to explain this a little more? Sorry, I'm confused.

4 hours ago, tEfugleskremmel said:

So I've got a little theory as to why we don't see any swastikas in BO3. Remember in the O4 timeline, Group 935 sought funding from the Nazis in return for weapons research. Group 935 were scientists from around the globe. Richtofen makes this very clear in his reservations with seeking help from the Nazis. I have a feeling that the only reason we see the swastika in the past was as a result of this partnership, and why we don't see it now is that in this current timeline/universe, that never happened. So what might explain this? First there's the reveal of Division 9. Clearly they are working together, possibly sharing the load on multiple projects which might keep the cost of research lower. Also of note is how the characters describe the nations involved in the war. They're mostly described by those affiliated with the Germans or Axis powers in some way, so it's often referred to as the "German war machine". Which makes sense, as it would be the allies who would refer to them as the Nazis. Plus the Nazis were a political party, the military was still the German military. Things such as the SS were very specific branches of the military. You wouldn't refer to the U.S. Military as the Republican or Democratic army. So while I think the Nazis still exist in the current timeline, their influence is not nearly as important to the narrative as it is less focused on the politics involved, and more on stopping Group 935 and setting things right. 

I'm going to disagree with this theory, actually. Beyond @NaBrZHunter's opening remarks, I don't see this research organization sporting an Iron Cross if the Nazi's are in power (unless the Nazi's are using that logo). I just don't see that happening.

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@Tac I never suggested the Nazis were no longer in power, just that they haven't been sought for funding from Group 935 in this timeline is all. Also, the Iron Cross was a military decoration for the Kingdom of Prussia, followed by the German Empire from 1870-1918 and once more by Nazi Germany from 1939-1945. With this, it's still reasonable to assume that Group 935 DID in fact get funding from the Nazis as before, but didn't adopt the Swastika so as to remain autonomous symbolically in the eyes of its international makeup. We're also in Der Riese and The Giant at vastly different points in the original narrative, so maybe they just hadn't finished decorating yet? Who knows.

 Plus I hate the theory that the Germans won WWI. If they do, then what is the cause of WWII? What reasons does Hitler have to rise to power without the Treaty of Versailles? And why for that matter would it follow the same dates? Just defies logic and in my eyes is a far lazier retcon. While it is vaguely plausible, it just does not make much sense. Again, if I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words. 

There's also the chance that it's incredibly simple. Treyarch just decided not to use the Swastika anymore for artistic reasons and it's nothing more than us making something out of nothing. Lazy, sure. But not unreasonable.

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anonymous    327
15 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

The crosses were actually also used by Nazi Germany. In fact, the cross was used in Black Ops 1 for the German release of Kino so that it wouldn't be banned due to the swastikas. This universe has proceeded along the same timeline as our own up until recently.

Ah, I see

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12 hours ago, Tac said:

Would you be able to explain this a little more? Sorry, I'm confused.

857331c268b125f82efaec7f2f25f152.png

Like in Shadows of Evil, how we see there is one single blue world and below it copies of this world, which are imperfect and have differences. The first one, where we have most of World at War to Black Ops, there is a universe where 115 is Ununpentium. We play in just that world and not necessarily an aspect of it (which is like a cut off pocket of that imperfect world). Then in the Origins world, where 115 is Divinium, there are two aspects. The first being Origins, the other being the events that are close to the other world. Then there is Mob of the Dead, which clearly share the same history but are separate from each other.

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