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Greer

The Mob of the Dead Blood Vials

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Greer    9

Hi guys,

I intend for this topic to serve as a place to further discuss the way in which Richtofen got his hands on the two blood vials he has on him and has since Origins. I believe these must have some relevance because even way back in the Origins trailer we get a close up of these, so I believe they have relevance. So let's get into it

Firstly, to talk about these blood vials we need to understand what happens on Mob of the Dead. There are two outcomes to our 'Pop Goes the Weasel' easter egg. When Sal, Billy and Finn kill the Weasel, the cycle continues. When the Weasel kills the other 3, the cycle breaks. So now that we have that out of the way, we have to determine which one of these endings is the canonical one, the one that would be considered the way that happens within the story. One possible presumption would be that both endings are canonical, as this is a cycle so the cycle could continue, and then break once it begins again, if you get me. I'll leave my personal opinions to the end so that you can see all of the facts and create your own conclusion first

Next, we have to consider the fact that Richtofen has these blood vials on Origins, which is set in both another universe and time period (Origins is in 1918, and Mob of the Dead is in December 31st, 1933). So this is really the biggest question here - how did these blood vials go back in time? Well just for the sake of covering all bases, Sal Deluka was imprisoned in June 1933, and Finn O'Leary does not have a defined imprisonment date, however it can be presumed to be around the same time. Why am I telling you this? Purely to show the fact that there is no time that we know of that the Origins Richtofen was working in Group 935 as the two characters were in prison, so there is no way he could've visited to get these vials (not to mention these characters have no idea how to travel between dimensions at this point in their lives)

There is one final thing that needs to he mentioned here, one final element that could change your thoughts on how these vials came to be on Richtofen. And that is the presence of Icarus flying over Morg City when the apocalypse is ascended, and also its presence in The Giant. It is very relevant to consider the fact that Icarus is only visible once the Shadow Man acquires the summoning key, and the Apothicans are set loose on this plain of existence. Also note that Shadows of Evil takes place in between April 13th and 17th, 1942, or at least everything we see before the Shadow Man drugs the characters is, so Icarus has either been flying for around a decade, or it has been displaced in another dimension and in time. Another relevant point is that when Icarus is overhead, multiple voices can be heard from it. Finally, the fact that Icarus is in The Giant. Not much can be said about this that isn't opinion, however I'll do my best to say how much can be. Considering The Giant takes place before Der Riese, it is clear that in this time Icarus is moved. The relevance of this is up to you. Also take note of the fact that this takes place in yet another universe from the events of Shadows of Evil, so this means that Icarus has been seen in potentially 3 universes, if you consider Shadows of Evil and Mob of the Dead to take place in seperate universes. 

Before continuing to my own thoughts on this, I urge you to form your own first. By all means, compare your ideas on this to mine, but for the sake of getting more fresh thoughts out there, form your own opinion first. On a sidenote, I am currently not able to record anything to show proof of what I just explained, so if anyone would be so kind as to give proof that would be appreciated :)

Alright, onto my opinion on this

Personally, I believe that the cycle that is seen on Mob of the Dead is broken in a different manner, and the characters from that map are displaced dimensionally and also in time, eventually leading them to Dr Richtofen in the Origins universe. Let me elaborate. In Shadows, we hear multiple voices coming from Icarus, which means that the cycle has not broken, as if it had been broken, we would only hear the Weasel on it. But we don't, we hear at least two, presumably four voices. How I believe this is achieved is that when the Shadow Man uses the summoning key to unleash the Apothicons on this hell-like version of the earth, he also summons some things from other universes somewhat accidentally, such as Icarus. I believe they were extracted from their time before the characters learn of their own deaths in the second to last step of the easter egg, when they are travelling from the roof to the bridge, thus breaking the cycle. So now they are in Morg City presumably, and then the characters kill the Shadow Man, and the apocalypse is averted, and the Apothicons are taken out of this reality, I'm presuming by the summoning key. This could then also dimensionally displace Icarus, with all of our characters on it, into the original universe, which causes them to land in the Der Riese facility, near Breslau. From here, the characters could easily get seperated, and Sal and Finn could easily stumble into a teleporter, and end up pretty much anywhere in time. We don't know if the teleporters are capable of interdimensional travel, however they could put them in the hands of Keepers, which could send them into the Origins universe. This bit specifically is a grey area for me, as I really do not know how these characters came directly into contact with Richtofen. Let's say there were very odd circumstances regardless, say they ended up teleported to the Der Riese facility (presuming there is one) in 1918 in the Origins universe, and they just appear where the mainframe is in our version of the map. These two Americans landing right in the middle of Germany with no real authority to be there and a very odd way of getting there would likely be tested on, which could easily lead to Richtofen having their blood taken, and then having those blood vials. I appreciate that especially toward the end my evidence begins to be very scarce, and it becomes pure speculation, but I'm working with what I've got, and I implore you to do the same. Thanks for reading this incredibly long post :)

 

EDIT

I just realised that this is in BO3 General, and I literally spend the entire time talking about BO2, so feel free to move moderators, sorry! XD

Edited by ultimategamings

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JJMFP    54

Well, that was winded, and as for Bo2, you have to explain it a bit to fit it into Bo3.  I like that you try to fit it all together.  Speculation or not, at least you are trying to make sense of it all.  I am wondering if there will be an official explanation of everything nearer to the end or if it will just leave us to our wild imaginations.   You know, how they leave a hanging ending that blows the entire plot out of the water, making room for new and even wilder set of implications.  My thoughts on this are short, and at times I don't even understand what I think about it, but I'll try my best to add to what you have started.

Throughout the zombies dialogue, Richtofen has been collecting and using interesting pieces to further his agenda.  If the blood in the vials are in fact those of Sal Deluca and Fin O'Leary, which we assume due to the numbering on the vials, then what could they possibly be used for?  Your theory, landing Icarus in "The Giant" and taking both fellows and most other peoples theory that Richtofen collected them on his body are both debunked by the presence of the blood vials as Richtofen steps out of the teleporter.  After all, this is the first time back to Der Riese, we can assume, because if he had been there before, he probably would have killed himself then.  Dempsey asks Richtofen where he has been for the last two years and I take this time, as a go between from SoE to "The Giant".  In that time frame, after grabbing the "summoning" key, Richtofen could have sought them out in efforts to obtain their blood for its unique properties, blood of the damned so to speak, and disrupts the cycle and crash lands the Icarus across multiple dimensional rifts to ultimately end up on "The Giant" map.  This crash landing leaves the MotD crew dead for good this time, probably still sitting up on the Icarus as we speak.  The blood in the vials are important for the final "ritual", because after all, they are completing sacrifices on themselves throughout Bo3.  I cannot go any further with this, but it is definitely interesting none the less.

 

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Greer    9

I like your theory, it is much less long winded and complex as mine, however there is one thing that somewhat screws it up. The thing is, Richtofen has the vials way back in Origins, and back then he has no knowledge of what he 'has to do', this all comes later when he accesses the Kronorium which we just found out from the Shadows of Evil bio on CoD's twitter.

 

Your theory, as I see it, has Richtofen acquire these blood vials some time between SoE and The Giant, but the fact is, he actually had them even before Origins. Thanks for the kind words! I appreciate that my post was awfully long, I didn't realise I had as much to say as I did. 

Screenshot_2016-04-16-20-34-43.png

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JJMFP    54

Yeah I admit I overlooked the fact that he had these vials in origins.  I just cannot wrap my head around the fact the he would have them at all in origins unless it is totally unrelated and just a nod to the map.  Have we taken into account that in another dimension, these number/letter combinations could mean something else.  It is not uncommon for like items in alternate demensions having separate meanings altogether.  After all, there has to be some similarities along with the differences, right?

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Greer    9
4 minutes ago, JJMFP said:

Yeah I admit I overlooked the fact that he had these vials in origins.  I just cannot wrap my head around the fact the he would have them at all in origins unless it is totally unrelated and just a nod to the map.  Have we taken into account that in another dimension, these number/letter combinations could mean something else.  It is not uncommon for like items in alternate demensions having separate meanings altogether.  After all, there has to be some similarities along with the differences, right?

That's a very valid point, these numbers could literally mean anything. They could purely be a nod and just that, however due to the fact the vials are now empty in the ZNS opening cinematic, I feel they have some meaning and relevance. Like Blundell said, the time between maps is purposely left so it can be revealed at a later date, which I assume is what's happening here. Blundell also was asked about the vials and basically said he can't comment so they must have some relevance

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JJMFP    54

Yes, they have to have importance.  I can agree with that.  Just, how did he get them will dictate a lot of information.  If he truly knew nothing before Origins, then how does he have them if they are MotD specific.  That is to say that, Richtofen didn't know anything till after Origins, but that could be very well further than the truth than we know.  He has always been a bit on the mysterious side.  I say he knows more than he let on in Origins and plays the part well to finish the job.

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Greer    9

I can see what you mean, Richtofen is often very fishy. But since this claim of getting knowledge from the Kronorium, whatever it is, didn't actually come from Richtofen himself who could've fabricated that lie, I take it as the truth

The thing is, Richtofen couldn't have travelled forward from 1918, so the only way for him to get the vials is if the MotD characters came to him, which they couldn't have due to the cycle continuing if Sal and Finn survived those events. That's what led me to the conclusion that the summoning key ripped them from where they were, whilst in flight going towards the bridge, and dropped them over Morg City. They likely continued flying until the Shadow Man died, and the apocalypse was averted, changing that world back to the way it was before. This could've ripped Icarus back into another universe, and then placed them over The Giant where they landed, teleported accidentally and possibly ended up in 1918 Group 935's hands. This explanation is really tedious and awkward, but it's the only way I can see how Icarus could've ended up in Morg City, and end up on the Giant, and for the blood to be taken. It also relies upon the MTDs being capable of interdimensional travel, which I'm not 100% sure they are

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Tac    462
19 hours ago, ultimategamings said:

Next, we have to consider the fact that Richtofen has these blood vials on Origins, which is set in both another universe and time period (Origins is in 1918, and Mob of the Dead is in December 31st, 1933). So this is really the biggest question here - how did these blood vials go back in time? Well just for the sake of covering all bases, Sal Deluka was imprisoned in June 1933, and Finn O'Leary does not have a defined imprisonment date, however it can be presumed to be around the same time. Why am I telling you this? Purely to show the fact that there is no time that we know of that the Origins Richtofen was working in Group 935 as the two characters were in prison, so there is no way he could've visited to get these vials (not to mention these characters have no idea how to travel between dimensions at this point in their lives)

This possible concept of time-jumping is something we have been trying to figure out since the multiverse was introduced, and a question that arises is the following: are the universes synchronized? Meaning, does 1933 in one universe mean 1933 in another, or rather, every other? Additionally, this ties back into the debate about how the Universe is constructed. Are these separate timelines branching like a river, with the same beginning point, or are they simply different universes? I think a reliable answer to those two questions (which no one has yet) will unpack a lot of the mystery surrounding what's happening.
 

19 hours ago, ultimategamings said:

Another relevant point is that when Icarus is overhead, multiple voices can be heard from it.

Are you positive there are multiple? I've heard mixed things from various people on the site, and am unsure.
 

19 hours ago, ultimategamings said:

Finally, the fact that Icarus is in The Giant. Not much can be said about this that isn't opinion, however I'll do my best to say how much can be. Considering The Giant takes place before Der Riese, it is clear that in this time Icarus is moved. The relevance of this is up to you. Also take note of the fact that this takes place in yet another universe from the events of Shadows of Evil, so this means that Icarus has been seen in potentially 3 universes, if you consider Shadows of Evil and Mob of the Dead to take place in seperate universes.

I am going to challenge the notion that Der Riese and The Giant are in the same universe, so I don't think the plane was just moved in between the maps.
 

2 hours ago, ultimategamings said:

They could purely be a nod and just that, however due to the fact the vials are now empty in the ZNS opening cinematic, I feel they have some meaning and relevance

It should be noted that in the gameplay trailer (released after the opening cutscene, to be clear), the vials were full again. I know there's a topic on this specifically, which is here.

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Greer    9
1 hour ago, Tac said:

This possible concept of time-jumping is something we have been trying to figure out since the multiverse was introduced, and a question that arises is the following: are the universes synchronized? Meaning, does 1933 in one universe mean 1933 in another, or rather, every other? Additionally, this ties back into the debate about how the Universe is constructed. Are these separate timelines branching like a river, with the same beginning point, or are they simply different universes? I think a reliable answer to those two questions (which no one has yet) will unpack a lot of the mystery surrounding what's happening.

The universe synchronisation is something that crossed my mind, but for the sake of the length of the post I decided to assume that they are infact aligned, since we have nothing proving otherwise currently.

1 hour ago, Tac said:

Are you positive there are multiple? I've heard mixed things from various people on the site, and am unsure.

From memory, yes there are multiple. I'll not be able to play again until Thursday, however I'll be sure to jump on and make sure.

1 hour ago, Tac said:

I am going to challenge the notion that Der Riese and The Giant are in the same universe, so I don't think the plane was just moved in between the maps.

Do you mean to challenge the notion they are not in the same universe? If not, do you have any other thoughts relating to why the plane would have been moved? The whole idea of what universe The Giant, and subsequently Der Eisendrache and Zetsubou No Shima are in is something that I go back and forth on repeatedly. Like today, when CoD tweeted another map 'bio' of The Giant, where it states Richtofen shoots his 'future self', which could either mean literally his future Origins self, or his future self from another universe, so I really do not know at this time. I could honestly talk all day about this topic specifically.

1 hour ago, Tac said:

It should be noted that in the gameplay trailer (released after the opening cutscene, to be clear), the vials were full again. I know there's a topic on this specifically, which is here.

Thanks for this clearup, I skimmed the trailer briefly to look for the vials after creating the post and never even saw them never mind if they were full or not.

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Greer    9

So Glitching Queen has posted a video showing the MotD plane appear in ZNS, and then disappear through a portal of sorts. This makes me kinda sorta right with my theory of them jumping between maps, something I feel we'll see happen again. Here's the video if you haven't seen it

 

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