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DaveLo07

Gobblegum, ammo variants and the watering down of strategy

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DaveLo07    172

I nearly started this discussion yesterday when I saw the update, but thought I would wait to see how the updates effected the game. I also believe there are positive aspects to the changes that have been made, for example the increase in liquid divinium that can be earned in a single game, but I will be focusing on the more negative aspects and covering some things that I have loosely discussed before, so apologies if I sound like a broken record.

Personally, I think that the combination of the wonder weapons and alchemical antithesis, especially in SOE and DE, are not only watering down strategy but also what is considered a high round. People used to have this debate on the Activision forums all the time during bo2. Whether high rounds were a combination of skill and time investment, or just time investment. Well I think we are at a point where skill is really not needed too much at all. Round 100 is the new round 30. By increasing the gobblegum per round from 1 to 3, I believe all they have done is made it even easier to achieve high rounds. Before the patch, round 80/90 is where you would start to sweat on alchemical antithesis and only be able to camp for short periods at a time. After the patch, it is going to be much easier to camp for the majority of another 30/40 rounds and beyond before ammo really becomes an issue. Surely this is a negative move for the game mode and competition on the leaderboards?

I also think the ammo variants are one of the worst implemented features in BO3. Once you have access to pack-a-punch, it doesn't really matter what type of weapon you are using as you are only looking to damage that first zombie and use whichever variant you have selected. Surely it would make much more sense to allow multiple upgrades on weapons so that they can be utilized in a strategy. I would much rather have a sniper rifle with no ammo variant that I could camp with until 80-90 but need to line up every head shot, than sit with the wonder weapon shooting the floor every 5-8 seconds without having to aim at all. It also makes no sense that in higher rounds when training, a wall weapon, any wall weapon, is more efficient than the wonder weapon.

I know a lot of high round players don't  feel this way. Anything that makes the rounds pass quicker is seen as a good thing, but I would argue that it is not quicker when the round you are aiming for is constantly getting higher and higher as the game becomes easier. I also feel like they have missed a trick with challenging survival maps. I miss maps where 30-50 is considered a decent round and you can play a challenging co-op game with a friend that doesn't have to last for more than a few hours. I have become more of a solo player with BO3. I don't mind casual games or Easter egg games with friends, but I don't want to sit in a corner for 8-12 hours while one player shoots and the other player watches.

I am aware that a lot of these issues were present in BO2 maps as well but it feels like they have become even more present in BO3. I am also aware that there are still challenging ways to play the game and you don't have to play in the linear fashion that most players do with BO3. But there is only so much time you can spend doing challenges, the maps should be a challenge in themselves and I would like to see the game mode keep an aspect of that, rather than the strategically boring, easy maps (although technically not the maps, the power of the weaponry within them) that we have seen so far with BO3.

 

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I like the implementations. It makes it easy to get to high rounds yes, but easier doesn't always mean worse. 

If round 50 is easy to get to now, just get to round 60. I for one have yet to have the time to actually play a full high-round game. More impressive is to use crappy weapons to get to those rounds, or just traps. Even the RK5 can be used on any round now and kill. 

And again, I think this is just more provocation that we need a HARD map in BO3. An unforgiving map with tight spaces and a hard boss. Something that poses a CHALLENGE for pro players. Easy players can still play SOE, DE, and The giant, but the big boys (and girls) get to hone their skills in the hard map. 

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DaveLo07    172
15 hours ago, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

If round 50 is easy to get to now, just get to round 60. I for one have yet to have the time to actually play a full high-round game. More impressive is to use crappy weapons to get to those rounds, or just traps. Even the RK5 can be used on any round now and kill. 

High rounds is only one aspect of the game, and it's not the way that I want to play the game every time, but when I do I want to do it as quickly as possible. I've done the slow challenging rounds on BO2 and have learnt the hard way that if you are playing for rounds, there is no point doing it despite yourself.

However, one aspect of the game I've enjoyed which I didn't think I would is the weapon levelling. This gives a reason to play casual games and use weapons that you may not be too keen on or aren't the best, and in doing this you can set yourself little challenges and put yourself out of your comfort zone, and some of the poorer weapons are improved quite a bit when fully levelled up.  

The gobblegum prices after patch actually increase over rounds, so the issue with the latest patch isn't as bad as I thought. I've just seen a post on reddit listing all the prices, and it seems that it would be impossible to use 3 gobblegums a round in higher rounds because of the steep increase in price. This means players would have to choose quite carefully where to use the extra gobblegums as the cost will quickly price you out of using any more. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CODZombies/comments/4bkfbz/round_1100_gobblegum_prices_chart_the_real_numbers/

Credit to Josh Keatley

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Doppelgänger    150

I agree. This is the exact reason high rounds from Black Ops 2 onwards feel like nothing. The game caters for those with less skill. No matter which way you look at it, all games now are becoming easier and easier. Older zombies maps were hard because of the limited amount of items you could defend yourself with. I remember a time when I considered Mule Kick an overpowered perk, now it's useless. A Re-Packed wall weapon, Perkaholic, the Rocket Shield and the Wonder Weapons make it nearly impossible for you to go down. I no longer feel a sense of worry as I see my ammunition counter get lower or when a new round begins. Plain and simple the most recent maps have screwed over strategy. The zombies are no longer a problem. Don't even get me started on Widows Wine.

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Totally get what you're saying, but let's face it - these new changes aren't going to compell people to go for round 300 now. Seems like 200 is still the big target these days, be it on these new maps or going back to BO1, in which the World Record scene is still very active. The bar in zombies has been raised in general and we used to look at maybe round 60 as high and 100 as ridiculous, whereas now 100 is now just "nice".

Must be said, though, that ammo was very often the biggest challenge in some of the older maps, whereas now it's becoming a non issue.

Edited by ZombiesAteMyPizza!
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anonymous    326

I feel you (however I think SoE is a hard map). Its also, like @NaBrZhunter once said: "the beaty of annihilation isnt with us anymore". The maps are getting too shiny, and the enemies are getting too much claws and tentacles, but it is easy after you are well equiped and have PaP your weapons.

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Koslans    39

My two cents: 

I'm happy to see that all the guns are now of good use. Back in the day, there were only a handful of them considered to be good. 

I don't understand why any 30-40 game isn't long enough. Do you guys really WANT to go to round 100? I'd rather quit and start a new game on a different map. 

 

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DaveLo07    172
On 28/03/2016 at 3:30 PM, Koslans said:

My two cents: 

I'm happy to see that all the guns are now of good use. Back in the day, there were only a handful of them considered to be good. 

I don't understand why any 30-40 game isn't long enough. Do you guys really WANT to go to round 100? I'd rather quit and start a new game on a different map. 

 

I don't particularly want to go to round 100, especially with the current state of the game and how linear and easy it is. That is the point of this post. I was always a bigger fan of the more challenging maps, and they seem to be a thing of the past. I would love a map where round 30 or 40 was a challenge to get to, I'm all for challenge over whoever has the most patience. I think BO3 needs a map (potentially a survival map) with no perks, and multiple bosses/enemy types.

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Koslans    39

I doubt Bus Depot was really that popular though. 

I like the fact that there are so many little things to be done in the new maps. For me it isn't all about high rounds, like I said before. Sure, The Giant is great, but seeing the little Arnies perform on stage in The Black Burlesque or having a skeleton disco in Der Eisendrache is heaps of fun in my eyes. 

Small survival maps are fun, but they often offer little replay value. I think. 

How many times did you guys play Farm or Bus Depot? Or even Town.... I'd rather play Tranzit in that case and have fun with the dusdriver and the denizens. 

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DaveLo07    172

High rounds is only one aspect of the game, and I rarely play for high rounds (4 attempts on bo3), but I still want more challenging maps. I agree that easter eggs give something to maps that is lacking in survival maps, but the novelty in the side easter eggs you mention wear off a couple of weeks after launch. Maps like Bus Depot and Nuketown were not very popular or well recieved, but I really enjoyed them. Most friends reasons for not playing those maps was because they were trying to get shotgun rank, or had it and didn't want to lose it given that Bus Depot has no perks, and Jug might not drop til 24 on Nuketown. The replay value in a map like Nacht when you initially play it and are trying to progress a few kills further each time is far superior to me than the replay value of Der Eisendrache, even though storm bow aside it is a very good map.

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anonymous    326
24 minutes ago, Koslans said:

I'd rather play Tranzit in that case and have fun with the dusdriver and the denizens. 

Thats great, someone else who likes Tranzit (a bit?). Although I have to agree with @DaveLo07 that its sad there are no small survival maps in bo3, like there were in Green Run. But I doubt there ever will be.

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Nieno69    126

Every time I read these threads i think - these players must all be ranked the first 100....

if you dont like it dont use the storm bow ...if you dont like it dont use alchemical...

Pls be that Kind and send me a PM with your highest round on soe and de... 

Lets make that clear: If you play solo you sure could Camp the whole time with the stormbow - or train the Zombies with a double packed Wall gun... but what if you dont use the double paped gun...what if you use no bow at all...Dont use perkaholic... and stop dashboarding to keep them...

Just play Co op and try revive your teammates while 3 Panzers run around the map or let them dis order your train and you get trapped...

Or have a Bad host and get Killed from the Flames from the panzer that still hit you after you Downed him and kill you in the end (just happened to me) 

A Bad host in a public Match makes it's much harder to kill the Panzers - because of "minilags" you dont hit the head or just dont hit the fire bow steps (beginnig with the burning stonestep)

To finish this: I was i think the first which complained that the storm bow is op - but I dont think it's "easy" to get to the 80... 

 

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DaveLo07    172

@Nieno69 I agree that you can make the game more competitive and don't have to camp with the storm bow, and in co-op games or casual games, I wouldn't take the storm bow. But I like the competition between friends for leaderboard positions, and am only going to run the quickest strategy in those situations, which is like watching paint dry.

This isn't about me thinking I'm really good at the game, I think I am an average player, which just highlights how easy these maps are. SOE I have been to 102 and quit because I wanted the round to register on the leaderboards, and Der Eisendrache I have an 83 on the leaderboards but have been to 86 and disconnected. The desire to try and beat my solo rounds is non existent, anyone could, it's just a question of how much boredom and tedium you are willing to suffer through.

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Koslans    39

You still got far, by round 40 I'm bored to death except for the brutal maps like Five and Shangri-La.

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jiipee95    35

Umm yeah I agree that BO3 zombies feels a bit too easy. It's the double pack-a-punch and gobblegums that In my opinion are a great idea, but in the end makes the game a little bit too easy. And Because of the Double PAP you can use any weapons and get to quite high rounds and that's just a bit boring... It was more fun when the Random Box had the best and the worst guns so it really was a gamble, and off-wall weapons were good, but you knew hitting the box might give you something better :)

 

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