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Some proof that Moon / Nuketown isn't 2025.

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Bauerklos    7

So, Moon and Nuketown are happening at the same time. We've known that for 3 years already but many people have said that they have taken place in 2025 which doesn't really make sense. Take these factors into consideration:

- These are the primary events leading up to nuketown:

Nuke testing begins / BO1 multiplayer match finishes (1960s) , nuke denotates, CIA or CDC arrives to investigate, outbreak at Area 51 begins.

Now, if a nuke JUST went off in the 1960s, and we know that Moon is at the same time, how could these maps be in the future? What sense does that really make, right? "Time displacement" doesn't work with this either because the entire state of Nevada would have to have been displaced, and even then, the rockets didn't hit so why would there be any displacement at all?

Another thing, is the Hangar 18 multiplayer map in BO1. In the main SR71 hangar there is a banner that reads "Welcome to GROOM LAKE". Obviously, we know this map is taking place in the 60s era. In No Man's Land, we see the exact same banner, no differences what so ever. Would Area 51 really have the same architecture and layout complete with signs at all around 50 years later

This also explains why TranZit looks so 1960s, the diner, the town, the loading screen music - the world got f*cked up in the 60s so of course it's going to stay like that. Displacement, could then (I guess) be used here to explain all the weird stuff like the bus.

Now Die Rise, IDK whats going on there because it seems to be a long time after the 1990s, judging by an advertisement that says "Since 1996 or '97". Maybe when the TranZit crew is teleported they travel in the future in the process? 

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Oooooohhhh boy..... 

 

Little tip buddy. 

NEVER bring up the time period for moon/nuketown because there IS no affirmative answer. 

It's like arguing between religions. 

 

 

I for one, LIKE the idea of the map being set in 2015 or 2025. My reasoning for this is that MARLETON has extensive knowledge of the 2025 weaponry and he's IN nuketown. How can he have knowledge of weapons that don't exist yet? Then there's the topic of Five happening after the cuban missile crisis and THAT being set to end in 1962. This map happens the same time as ascension, which happens before COTD, where richtofen states that he teleported too far into the future. 

Next there's the die-rise poster, then the robot bus driver... Bla bla bla. IT NEVER ENDS. 

Frankly it doesn't matter either. What we know is that at point X, richtofen blows up the earth and screws up everything after that. 

LITERALLY the entire story right now revolves around forgetting this. 

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The Meh    75

I'm going to clarify that this is definitely before 2025. It's... literally broad daylight answering. You're playing in the original Nuketown, essentially, no? Like, the 1960's Nuketown.

Kinda answers enough, in my opinion.

I'd wager it's in the 1960's at best, but I dunno.

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*Please read in southern mother's voice*

"Oh there I go, ole "Time period of Moon topic" done gotten herself stuck in another vortex, heaven be." 

That's a quote from this: 

 

Kinda.... Watch about a minute and a half. 

That's how out of control this thread will become. 

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Rissole25    378

Here's a thread I did last year that might help out. It's regarding TranZit's timeframe but may be of use. Still not sure  on the actual answer though honestly, I just wish the devs would clear it up.
 

 

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InfestLithium    496

I used to be a firm believer that Moon was set in the 2020s, alongside Nuketown Zombies. But before I can even begin to talk about why I believe that, some points must be noted when discussing either viewpoint of the date:

  • Weapons are no longer a "time flag" for the time period in question. Ever since Buried, we've learned that weapons are displaced through time via 115 and can be brought into a map from any given point of origin. This explains why certain futuristic weapons are made available to us in past maps where they should not exist.
  • If you consider time travel as a means of going from one map to the next chronologically, you must understand that we have never dealt with backwards time travel until mid Black Ops 2. That being said, the teleporters aka MTDs can only move forwards in time unless disrupted with ethereal energy (see Der Eisendrache). Black Ops 1 shows us that we only move forward, and never backwards.
  • Shangri-la has the ability to keep us in the present 20XX or in the past 20XX. We know it to be beyond the year 2000 for either scenario because the walkie talkies from Brock and Gary in the past are replica models from real-life devices that were designed in the late 90s. Ergo, we're talking 1990s MINIMUM for the year, although the exact date is questionable.
  • The jump from Tranzit to Die Rise did not shift us in time; meaning that when Richtofen teleported the N4 from Hanford to Shanghai, time did not progress or delay. It was the same year, same time. And Die Rise takes place in 2025 or more due to the SDC soldier zombies being present on the map, where the SDC was formed in the 2020s within the story. When you realize that, you must now take into consideration that Tranzit is also taking place in 2025 as well. That cannot be changed.
  • Going on the above statement, Hanford was a desolated 1960s small town, and cleared out with the government doing secret operations under the name "Green Run" several years later...and yes, that's a real operation in reality. Just because the towns as that aged feel to it doesn't mean the map takes place in the 60s; it was preserved that way to prevent passerbys from noticing any government ops occurring prior to the Earth getting desolated.
  • The big kicker: Nuketown was technically hit twice from a nuke. Once from the Multiplayer ending, and again from the Moon rockets. First, US and Russian troops die from the initial bomb, and then radiation scientists come in to scavenge the site, only to be turned as well. After no communication was made to their superiors, CIA and CDC went in to investigate. Now we also see a large drill excavating in Nuketown on the loading map, which tells us there was a brief period between the first initial nuke and the excavation. That could easily have been X amount of time (depending what perspective you're looking from). In conclusion, we can argue that the excavation of 115 from the Earth via drilling is what caused the deceased troops to reanimate, not the Multiplayer nuke.

Take what you will given those circumstances.

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NaBrZHunter    488

While @InfestLithium made a great point that we are only able to move forward in time, allow me to clarify and reinforce: while, yes, we did travel backwards in time at S-L, which very well may entirely be a place locked in time (another discussion) notice, that just like it Der Eisendrache, you are only momentarily 'displaced' before being re-inserted forcefully into your proper time. So that being said, I can't believe no one mentioned the CotD grandfather paradox. We know for a fact that CotD is in 2011, so in order for Moon to be in the 60s', that would require backwards time travel, which would not only violate the precendent of forceful replacement in the event of backwards time travel, but also would mean that in 2011, Dr. Richtofen would have recieved the Golden Rod; in the 1960s', he used it to replace Samantha,  and Maxis nuked the earth, meaning that, come 2011, Richtofen cannot have gotten the rod, which means Moon wouldn't happen, which means the earth would be intact in 2011, which means Richtofen would have gotten the Golden Rod, and so on and so on.

Thus, Tranzit/Nuketown/Moon cannot have occurred before 2011.

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"Looks like ole Topic has gotten herself stuck in a parallel dimension full of demons again, heavens to betsey." 

 

Also, as well, before the topic of "Nuclear testing was banned in the 70s" arises, I'd also like to point out that nuketown 2025 is ALSO a thing, thus america CLEARLY does not give a crap about that ban. 

Furthermore while weapons themselves can't be use to pinpoint an era, a character's knowledge of a weapon can be. You could argue that marelton has been fallowed by the box and used the time-displaced weapons before, but my counter argument would be that the FIRST game you play in tranzit will have Richtofen's etherial voice going "RARRRRRR COUGH >0< Oh... scuse me... I'm still getting used to the eather, plays havoc on the pipes... Ah yes... Right..." Meaning he JUST gained control over the earth. 

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anonymous    324

I do think TranZit is right after moon, maybe a week, maybe a year, but not multiple decenia. The part between Tranzit and Die Rise has always been a bit vague, but the N4 looks the same, so there has to be less then a year between these maps. I also do think Die Rise is in 2025. The start gun of Green Run is a bo1/cold war weapon, however, that doesnt mean the time they are used in is also the Cold War. I once read a theory (not on this site) of Tranzit being in 2025, a 1960-styled amusement park, with a modern bus driving tourists around. I also read many good theories why TranZit is in 1960, with at the end Richthofen sending them to Die Rise, 2025.

@InfestLithium Why do you think the part between Tranzit and Die Rise didnt shift us in time?

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Spider3000    140

I personally believe Moon does take place in 2025, for lots of reasons. I believe every single one of them was discussed above. The thing is though, there are great valid points on both sides of the argument, which happen to conflict with each other. It's very annoying because there isn't any valid answer. I'm not even sure Treyarch themselves know because they don't care/didn't put too much thought into it. All of this probably could've been avoided too if they didn't decide to go ahead with the pointless addition of Marlton into the fallout shelter. It's part of the reason the story side of Black Ops 2 doesn't sit well with me. There wasn't enough answers to questions.

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NaBrZHunter    488

I love Call of the Dead and what the radios contributed, but it was nearly the death knell for the Zombies storyline. 

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Rissole25    378
12 hours ago, NaBrZHunter said:

We know for a fact that CotD is in 2011, so in order for Moon to be in the 60s', that would require backwards time travel, which would not only violate the precendent of forceful replacement in the event of backwards time travel, but also would mean that in 2011, Dr. Richtofen would have recieved the Golden Rod; in the 1960s', he used it to replace Samantha,  and Maxis nuked the earth, meaning that, come 2011, Richtofen cannot have gotten the rod, which means Moon wouldn't happen, which means the earth would be intact in 2011, which means Richtofen would have gotten the Golden Rod, and so on and so on.

Thus, Tranzit/Nuketown/Moon cannot have occurred before 2011.

I don't think Call of the Dead has screwed anything though. There are no concrete rules for time travel don't forget. It has different rules depending on what story your reading. I've always viewed the time travel as linear, and following the O4. Blowing up earth effectively eliminated those events occuring, but it still happened for the O4 because they are time travelers.

But that's not my view anyway. I still kind of believe CotD, Shangri-La and Moon is 2011, while TranZit, Die Rise and Buried is 2025. Possibly 2012-13, I haven't really thought about that though.

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Schrödinger    98

Shangri-La has two dates, but here are all the time elements that I know only in Moon/Nuketown.

Moon

At least in 1950 : http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/rissole25/291020112636-1.jpg~original

I don't know the exact model of excavator, but the oldest that I found is in 1954 : https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_255

His description evokes at least 1961 : "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. (JFK, 1961)"

Detachment 1, 1129th Division Special Activities Squadron existed between 1962 and 1968, two ceremonies in their honor at Groom Lake are known, 1966 and 1968 : http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/11/1458118237-img0329hy.jpg

The rockets have a design similar to Soyuz from 1966 : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/GPN-2002-000184.png http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/mixmasternut/MoonRocketcloseup.jpg~original

And I don't know of what year the P.E.S can from.

 

Nuketown

I don't find the first site that posted the interview, but Nuketown is described be inspired by the 50s.

The descriptions indicate that Nuketown and NuketownZ are the same and are a 60s neighborhood, they also speak of Hangar 18 so look in this map if you want another date.

Latchkey is a series of nuclear tests that were made between 1966 and 1967 : http://www.thesixthaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/nuketown_streets.jpg http://i.imgur.com/coQDqdf.jpg

The CDC is named Center for Disease Control like between 1970 and 1980 : http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/7/7e/CDC_logo_BO2.png/revision/latest?cb=20130402185710&path-prefix=fr

Some people say this is the B.R.E.N tower that we can see far into Nuketown, this tower was built in 1962, moved in 1966 and destroyed in 2012 : http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/PINNAZ/6B0CB5D1-0AB6-4AEB-937C-78E4764EAF7C-13982-00001A61BDD94087_zps9edc25b4.jpg~original http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/PINNAZ/E2B2887D-C45D-48E2-A40F-03DC711A31EE-13982-00001A61D0827FCB_zps70585cb1.jpg~original

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NaBrZHunter    488

@Schrödinger awesome resources. This is why I say CotD screwed it up. @Rissole25 we do seem to have some rules for time travel in Zombies, but the one that applies to all time travel stories is the grandfather paradox. You simply can't escape it. Not even via multiverse, unless this multiverse has worlds simultaneously at different times, which presents a huge problem for the story that, if it isn't wrecked badly enough as it is, would completely spiderweb it. All universes must be simultaneously on the same point in time. 

Moon SHOULD have been in the 60s' or at latest, 70s'. But they wanted their star cast. And it cost them. 

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InfestLithium    496
On 3/15/2016 at 1:30 PM, anonymous said:

@InfestLithium Why do you think the part between Tranzit and Die Rise didnt shift us in time?

Because as the controller within the MPD, you are omnipotent; you can see everything and anything at the same time, but never beyond your current scope of time. If Richtofen actually had the power to move the N4 through time, then why couldn't Samantha do the same while she was the controller to avoid Richtofen from swapping souls?

Additionally, Richtofen simply doesn't have the power to fluctuate through time because he's not powerful enough. In order to break through time and space, you need ethereal energy - a rare form of power that goes beyond the constraints of element 115. Hence why we keep powering towers all throughout Black Ops 2 - to deliver power in the form of 115 AND ethereal energy to the respective entity.

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Rissole25    378

@NaBrZHunter You may have to ignore the grandfather paradox for this story though. The N4 have to go to the future to collect the switches from their dead bodies. They successfully implement the switches on the gates, meaning that future cannot happen now. Of course the situations are different, but they follow the same basic concept. They bring back an item from the future, that evidently changes that future.

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NaBrZHunter    488

@Rissole25 ah. Touché. But you know what? Screw you for supporting your argument with Buried logic. LOL!!!! That is the first time I've actually not had a response in this case. 

Frigghhh.  What to do now. That is one of the worst time travel violations I have ever heard. 

@InfestLithium I believe that is a redundancy. @Tac get in here!

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anonymous    324

When someone uses a MTD, they will go forward in time, but stay in the same universe, right? Or is it when a MTD is used, you go to another time in another universe?

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We don't know. We can never hope to know. And we can only assume fuck it let treyarch continue making their game. The MPD and MTD are devices BEYOND our comprehension, we can't make rules for them. 


As for the time travel thing, SAMANTHA we know has the ability to time travel, without total control of the MPD, or at least manipulate different universes with similar but displaced timelines.

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NaBrZHunter    488

Actually, that's not true. @Stop Mocking Me0. @anonymous It would seem, based on all precedent that, within the MPD, the occupant stays in the same time, but only has a broadened perspective of their universe, able to see a broader range of potential events and the ability to pull and insert certain objects into different places, however they still only have sight of a single dimension: that which the MPD is in. Now, whether it is linked to something larger is still uncertain and very likely, but it seems to be like the one-way glass of an interrogation room. The Occupant can see a WIDE perspective of their universe, but cannot look beyond. However, there may be a greater endpoint which has a viewpoint of all MPDs, and therefore, the occupants of each MPD. I believe you may have read my discourse on the powers of the MPD? It still seems fairly accurate.

I can't agree either that Samantha knows how to time travel. The Samantha paradox is still up in the air, hence, American Samantha. 

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InfestLithium    496
On 3/17/2016 at 8:24 PM, Rissole25 said:

@NaBrZHunter You may have to ignore the grandfather paradox for this story though. The N4 have to go to the future to collect the switches from their dead bodies. They successfully implement the switches on the gates, meaning that future cannot happen now. Of course the situations are different, but they follow the same basic concept. They bring back an item from the future, that evidently changes that future.

It should also be said that the Time Bomb is composed of ethereal energy, designed to bypass the laws of space and time. According to the Richtofen quest of Buried's EE, the contraption you build has 115 as well as the wisps/souls of "those before you". While it's impossible to determine what those wisps are actually made of in terms of energy, it's nonetheless used with the Time Bomb to do the impossible for the device - move forward instead of backwards in time.

And the grandfather paradox is not necessarily to be "ignored"; it just depends on the magnitude of the outcome. Blowing up the Earth in the past (if you believe Moon was set back then) is a catastrophic result from a severe change; retrieving and item from the near future? Not so much. I say that because only Richtofen requires that switch from the future and even at the end of the quest, he gets stuck in Samuel's body while the Earth will become fully overrun by the undead. Maxis' ending is technically the "more canon" finale, and we all know that he jumps into a whole different universe once passing into Agartha, causing the original universe's Earth to be destroyed.

@NaBrZHunter, how would it be redundant? If you were the Controller and someone was working their way to get you out of the MPD, would you not just dislocate them in a time period where they can do absolutely nothing to progress further? See, Samantha never received this power because she just wasn't as powerful as Richtofen became when he got into the MPD. Even then, Richtofen only gained enough energy to displace the N4 to the other side of the world, but not push through time itself. No Controller in the MPD has ever been examined to show the ability to displace an object through time itself - that would require energy beyond any realm in the universe [ethereal].

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anonymous    324
On ‎17‎-‎3‎-‎2016 at 5:08 PM, NaBrZHunter said:

However, there may be a greater endpoint which has a viewpoint of all MPDs, and therefore, the occupants of each MPD.

Funny that you say MPDs. I read your post about the MPD, but can you explain how it works with multiple MPDs? Beside one on moon, we found one in Austria, and there are perhaps more. Is there 1 MPD each universe? And who takes control over the zombies when there are different beings in each MPD?

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The MPD is an odd device. 

It appears every universe inhabits at least one MPD or a device similar to it. Likewise, the summoning key and/or the moon artifact can interface with it. Although, some people, like me, think the moon artifact IS the summoning key. No further discussion on that. 

The VRILL rod (Golden rod) also appears to be able to interface with souls tied to the device. 

 

The device it's self is a stable gateway between dimensions, more frequently used to traverse the Aether. However I purpose the PAP device in SOE is THAT universe's MPD, only the gateway opened just allows the shadow man to allow his race to overtake this universe.  

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NaBrZHunter    488
16 hours ago, anonymous said:

Funny that you say MPDs. I read your post about the MPD, but can you explain how it works with multiple MPDs? Beside one on moon, we found one in Austria, and there are perhaps more. Is there 1 MPD each universe? And who takes control over the zombies when there are different beings in each MPD?

When I wrote that thread, I was a universe advocate, not multiverse. Now, the technology is still reliable, I believe, but it just doesn't discuss the concept of plurality.

I phrased my previous point wrong. Think about it this way (BTW, @Tac @MrRoflWaffles this is what I was trying to explain yesterday):

Let's say I have a network of loudspeakers that are, for instance, scattered across a facility. I can just leave these open to work as an intercom through which I can radio out messages as needed from my 'control center' or 'hub' to which they are all connected (each MPD in each universe).

Now, if someone working in one of those areas taps the wire to the loudspeaker to their area (someone enters the MPD), they interrupt my ability to communicate via that loudspeaker and can instead, use it themselves. Only difference is, I can still communicate with them (the hacker).

Based on precedent, there can be only one occupant in the MPD at a time. I believe that when Sam says 'something far more terrible than you lies here,' she refers to the controller at the central hub.

Now, like a loudspeaker, the MPD is used to transmit 'audible' messages, except not 'audible' via our sense of hearing, rather on a frequency detectable by our brains, hence the occupant's ability to control the undead and mentally communicate with certain people, as was illustrated in the case of Samuel and The Flesh in BO2, and recently reinforced in Der Eisendrache, when Griffin Station perimeter guards hear Maxis' voice emitting from the MPD, while external microphones were unable to capture the alleged voice. 

Presumably, the MPD is located on the Moon in all universes, as it is in Der Eisendrache. It is brought to the castle from Griffin Station by the Keeper, and goes away again when the EE has been completed. This makes sense if we assume that the Keepers are Vril Ya, the creators of the MPD, AKA, the Ancient Vril Machine. 

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