Jump to content
FatedTitan

Omnipotence and the MPD

Recommended Posts

FatedTitan    70

So I've been listening to "Dead Again" a good bit (best song since Ascension imo) and there's been a part that has really stuck out to me.  While I won't go through a breakdown of the entire song (I'll save that for another day), this part has to be mentioned for the content of this post.  At the beginning of the song, we have Elena (Sam, why not?) singing in a singular tense, but by the end, she's speaking in a plural tense.  Not only this, but we have the addition of a male voice right when the song shifts tenses.

 

 

You'll notice this at the 3:32 mark.  And once this happens, Samantha starts saying that, instead of feeling dead, she now feels alive.  Instead of feeling no pain, she now feels the pain.  So why this shift?  What happens?

 

Let's think back to Moon.  Sam is in control and is trying to stop the O4 from stopping her and, inevitably, giving Richtofen power.  When this fails, Richtofen takes control and she is now in Edward's body.  This seems what it's pointing to.  We have the addition of a male voice (Richtofen) and then Sam talking about now feeling pain, where she didn't before.  

 

But that's no big deal, is it?  Yay, Kevin gave us a song that talks about the progression of Sam's thoughts before Cryogenic Slumber Party and after.  But there's a problem here.  Look at this:

Are we dead?

Is it all over?

Where is the pain now?

You lead and we'll follow.

Our tree of life is hollow.

The tide has turned into rain.

Are we dead?

Did we cross over?

What is our name now?

Are we dead now?

Are we dead now?

Are we dead again?

 

So this is interesting.  Even though Sam has stated that she feels alive just before this, it's now a "we", not a "he".  Shouldn't she be asking if he's dead, since she's no longer in the MPD?  That would seem to be the case, but it's not.  It seems as though she's still in it, in some way or another.  And I don't think this is because her body is there.  Her soul obviously is not.  So we're faced with a dilemma.  How does this work?

 

Now, as many know, we have a multiverse happening.  And we know in the Origins universe, there is another Sam.  And it would seem that in The Giant, there is a Sam as well, going by the mystery box laughs and such.  How come there's so many Sams in control of so many different universes?

 

So last year, I was watching an anime I probably wouldn't recommend (too much recap on a lot of episodes and while the story is okay, it's kind of meh overall).  But in this anime, (Katekyo Hitman Reborn), the final arc features *SPOILERS IF YOU ARE WATCHING OR PLAN TO* a villain who has been awoken to the reality of different universes.  Take a look at this clip.  Start at the 3:50 mark and go to about 5:30-6.

 

 

"So the villain, Byakuran, can see and understand all of the parallel worlds.  What does that have to do with anything Fated?"  

I'm glad you asked!  Doesn't this sound peculiarly like what we're dealing with in zombies?  Wouldn't it make sense that, if there was an omnipotent being (Sam) somewhere, that she controls every single possible reality.  And with that knowledge, she makes sure that Sam will always take control.  This explains why Sam is in control in so many different universes.

 

But I'll bring up the obvious.  What about Mob of the Dead?  What about Shadows of Evil?  Heck!  What about Moon?  She's lost that power, hasn't she?  If an omnipotent Sam controlled everything, wouldn't she have known Richtofen had the potential to take control and fought to stop it?  It would seem that way, wouldn't it?  Let me try to explain all of these situations.

 

First off, while Sam is omnipotent in her power, there are situations where she can lose control.  While she knows everything, that doesn't mean she can necessarily stop it.  So for Moon, she can know that Richtofen plans to take control but not be able to stop it.  And we see this throughout the original universe for our crew.  Sam sends zombies and uses other tactics to stop him from taking control, but fails.  In Shadows of Evil, I would argue that Richtofen is in control (due to the ending), which would make sense because they are now "we".  He also now how the power he's been seeking and can see through all possible universes, but, in the same sense, can only do so much.  So he doesn't automatically take control of the universes Sam still has control in.  He'll have to work to earn that still, but can influence things to do so.  

 

Then there's Mob of the Dead, where things fly out the window, or so it would seem.  We have a demonic force in charge of Mob of the Dead.  So we know there is some form of a demon with power that can control universes as well.  I theorized in Black Ops 2 that Richtofen absorbed this demon when he touched the MPD initially in our original universe.  But in the MotD universe, he hasn't done this.  And Sam hasn't been able to get Sam to take control here yet either.  So the demon still reigns.  Who is this demon?  Not sure, but possibly Satan.  The Bible talks many times about how Satan is the ruler of this world while God is in control of the heavens (not that God isn't ruler of all, but he allows Satan to reign in the physical world).  So it could be him, which would seem to make sense.

 

So what does this mean?  Perhaps the demon is using Richtofen in Black Ops to gain control back from Sam.  When successful, it's still a "we" because Sam still has omnipotence of some form from a different MPD in a different universe that she controls.  In Black Ops 2, we introduce our demon in MotD, but Carrion and We All Fall Down point toward a falling out between Richtofen pre-MPD and the demon.  They're definitely in conflict with each other as Richtofen tries to gain control back of his body and ultimately himself.  The demon worked hard to take back power in this world and is not going to go down so easily.  Each of the three is doing everything possible to stop the others from having full control in all universes by whatever means necessary.  And to those wondering, I would argue that Maxis serves Samantha in the universes, as seen in Origins, Buried, and Moon.  But now we're left with some questions.

 

First, is it possible to actually have victory?  How many possible universes are out there that these three are fighting over?  

Second, what does ultimate power really do for Richtofen in Buried?  Yes, he can kill everything.  Perhaps this allows the demon to take full control of Richtofen and there be no chance of him taking his body back.  Who knows?  We can't really know fully.

Third, what would full control actually achieve?  Why does it matter if you don't control one universe?

The last question is the one that interests me the most.  What is Origins Richtofen doing?  We've seen him go from Origins to The Giant universe and travel to Der Eisendrache to recover the Dempsey test subject.  We also know that he's been to the MotD universe, something the blood vials in Origins shows.  What is he up to?  What is his plan?  Is he trying to stop all three of them (demon, Sam, and other Richtofen)?  How do his escapades play into this?

 

It's interesting and something that's been brewing in my mind.  Some of you may like it.  Others may hate it.  That's fine.  It's just a theory.  I hope that it does spark some discussion though.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on these questions and how they could matter.  If you have disagreements, feel free to voice them.  Know that I haven't finished the Der Eisendrache easter egg, so if I see some coming, I probably won't read the rest of your comment just for spoilers.

Thanks for reading.  Hopefully I'll be able to get my Der Eisendrache analysis out at one point in the next few weeks.  I just wanted to throw this out there and get everyone's thoughts.  Thanks for reading!

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steelie    14

It's a really nice theory, but the only thing I have with it is that I think the song is about Dempsey, not Samantha. Seeing how the the map and the whole story revolves around him at this point, it only made sense to me. And that can explain the plural thing as well which you were talking about: the "You lead and I'll follow, my tree of life is hollow" is Dempsey to Richtofen, because Richtofen is the only person he knows who knows how to stop the total apocalypse. And since he has nothing to lose, his tree of life being hollow, he follows Richtofen.
At the end of the song it would be Dempsey, Nikolai and Takeo to Richtofen, and Dempsey having noticed him, Nikolai and Takeo are pretty much in the same boat.

Furthermore there's the "I feel so strange, like I'm everywhere, like noone was there.", which I believe to be from Dempsey 1.0's point of view about everything. My believe is that he's in some sort of coma inside the machine, so that means he would know what's happening around him. And I think the lyric then pretty much speaks for itself, he's everywhere in a way through Origins Dempsey, and after all of this is over all of the main four go their own separate ways. All four of them are alone together (like noone was there).

Then "We only want to live forever. Repeat serial suicide, I can't find you and hide." Of course noone truly wants to die, even if they say they would, if they come into an actual life or death situation they'll do everything in their power to not die(not always, but most of the time. And I don't see Dempsey being severely depressed). The repeat serial suicide is of course the main four going after their older selves and killing them off. "I can't find you and hide" seems to me to be the part where Dempsey is exited to meet his older self. 

Next are these: "Am I dead? Is it all over? There is no pain here." I believe this to be from Dempsey 1.0's standpoint again, when his soul is put into the Keystone by Richtofen. I believe this is the point he realizes he's finally really dead, (because he tended to break the fourth wall a lot as the only one of the four, and thus seemed to know it's a game) and his constant fighting is finally over. The same goes for "Where is my pain now?"

I have nothing on the second verse, because I frankly don't understand where it came from. Maybe it has to do with the Death Ray ("A creeping shadow spire will bleed into the sky"), but I have no idea.

This lyric really sold me on my theory that the song is about Dempsey: "I hear my name, in a voice like mine that I hear in my mind. The time has come to leave forever. I peel the fabric back and see me hide. I can't hide from I and hide from me." 
His name in a voice like his, I of course put that to the "It's good to see ya, Tank." Makes sense, right? Plus the fact that everyone thinks in their own voice and hears themselves when they talk, that being where the 'like' in the lyric comes from. As for peeling the fabric back and the hiding part, my thinking was that it stands for all the interdimensional travel the Origins four have done. I think it also means that they're tracking themselves down, that they're hunting themselves. You can't run away from yourself, kids.

"In my head it draws me closer, will it know my name?": I believe this to be Dempsey 1.0 wondering to himself while being put into the Keystone.

"I see it again and again in mind, I see it when I look at the sky and I am alive again. I'm alive, I feel the pain now. I'm really here. I'm alive now, I'm alive now. I'm alive, now I die again." I see this being when Origins Dempsey looks upwards during the end cutscene, and realizing he himself is alive, even though his older counterpart is dead. And he of course realizes how heavy it is to have to kill yourself, even if you stay alive to become the older version.

 

I hope all of this made a little bit of sense, and I really enjoyed reading through your speculations! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    324

Its interesting thinking of beside Richthofen and Maxis/Samantha there is a third Demonic power fighting for power in the MPD. Could there be a posibility of the Keepers being that third thing? Or are the Keepers only the inventors, the makers and the guardians of the Vrill device?

One thing: The Origins Samantha, isnt she the Samantha from the Nacht-Buried universe who after kicked out of the MPD by Richthofen, immediately captured by the Ancient Gods and "prisonned" in Agartha in the Origins universe? Further great theory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Steelie    14
37 minutes ago, anonymous said:

Its interesting thinking of beside Richthofen and Maxis/Samantha there is a third Demonic power fighting for power in the MPD. Could there be a posibility of the Keepers being that third thing? Or are the Keepers only the inventors, the makers and the guardians of the Vrill device?

One thing: The Origins Samantha, isnt she the Samantha from the Nacht-Buried universe who after kicked out of the MPD by Richthofen, immediately captured by the Ancient Gods and "prisonned" in Agartha in the Origins universe? Further great theory

That third power does exist, the Ancient Evil. It was in control during Mob of the Dead, but when the zombies are under their control they have red eyes.

Edited by Steelie
Typo fixing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My favorite line of the song is "Repeat Serial Suicide" LOVE that line. 

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a full on song-analysis yet for this. 

Now on the topic of zombie eyes. 

We know richtofen is blue, samantha is yellow, maxis is more of an orange, and red is the grand evil. 

But what causes white/purple zombie eyes? (Origins)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steelie    14
Just now, Stop Mocking Me0 said:

My favorite line of the song is "Repeat Serial Suicide" LOVE that line. 

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a full on song-analysis yet for this. 

Now on the topic of zombie eyes. 

We know richtofen is blue, samantha is yellow, maxis is more of an orange, and red is the grand evil. 

But what causes white/purple zombie eyes? (Origins)

Wasn't that the default color? Like when noone in particular is in control?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steelie    14

That's true, somewhere I hope there is something behind the blue-eyed zombies. What if it's the Vril-Ya? It may seem far-fetched, but what if they were the first to successfully control the zombies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    324

White/purple eyed zombies are Agarthan zombies, and the Vrill Ya are the residents of Agartha, so thats a possibility

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Steelie    14

If it actually is them controlling the zombies that'd be so cool! And it also gives something to think about, like why would the Vril-Ya want control of the zombies? Maybe to guard the Crazy Place, making sure no one got in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    324
25 minutes ago, Steelie said:

If it actually is them controlling the zombies that'd be so cool! And it also gives something to think about, like why would the Vril-Ya want control of the zombies? Maybe to guard the Crazy Place, making sure no one got in?

Remember the MPD, the device with you can control the zombies, is made by the Vrill Ya. Why? They dont use it.....or do they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Steelie    14

Indeed! It would be weird to make something and then not to use it. Maybe they're planning something really, really big.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    324
6 minutes ago, Steelie said:

Indeed! It would be weird to make something and then not to use it. Maybe they're planning something really, really big.

I thought the same. First it seems impossible for them to predict everything what happened in the Nacht-Buried universe. They couldnt predict Richthofen would betray Maxis and trap him and his doughter in the MPD. But then I remembered that there is a possibility that Richthofen did this in order of the Illuminatti, where he was a member of. Now, could it be that the Vrill Ya are in the Illuminatti too and that they ordered Richthofen to teleport Maxis and Samantha away, thus leading to all the events of WaW/BO1/BO2 and maybe also SoE? I dont know why, because it ended after Buried in Earth's distruction. Althought, we assume that. Maybe the Earth didnt distruct after Maxis or Richthofens control over the world. Maybe it was all prepared by the Vrill Ya and something happens after Buried, something unimaginable for us, and the young Richthofen from Origins tries to stop them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Steelie    14
1 minute ago, anonymous said:

I thought the same. First it seems impossible for them to predict everything what happened in the Nacht-Buried universe. They couldnt predict Richthofen would betray Maxis and trap him and his doughter in the MPD. But then I remembered that there is a possibility that Richthofen did this in order of the Illuminatti, where he was a member of. Now, could it be that the Vrill Ya are in the Illuminatti too and that they ordered Richthofen to teleport Maxis and Samantha away, thus leading to all the events of WaW/BO1/BO2 and maybe also SoE? I dont know why, because it ended after Buried in Earth's distruction. Althought, we assume that. Maybe the Earth didnt distruct after Maxis or Richthofens control over the world. Maybe it was all prepared by the Vrill Ya and something happens after Buried, something unimaginable for us, and the young Richthofen from Origins tries to stop them.

That could very well be true! And maybe it could be that the Vril-Ya thought they would be in danger from the humans and felt threatened, and that that the reason is they decided to destroy the Earth? I mean humans have entered the Crazy Place already, and it'd only be a matter of time for them to find a way into Agartha then as well. I can imagine the Vril-Ya wouldn't be so happy with a bunch of greedy humans invading their home. But I believe that there's also something of Origins? I believe it was something like the main four appearing in front of the people from the excavation site in Origins, warning them to stop digging or something or bad things would happen: http://prntscr.com/am2wmo This is a picture of what I'm talking about. What if the main four are actually (or least descendants of) the Vril-Ya? And they warned the humans because they expected them not to listen, setting their plans in motion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonymous    324
1 hour ago, Steelie said:

That could very well be true! And maybe it could be that the Vril-Ya thought they would be in danger from the humans and felt threatened, and that that the reason is they decided to destroy the Earth? I mean humans have entered the Crazy Place already, and it'd only be a matter of time for them to find a way into Agartha then as well. I can imagine the Vril-Ya wouldn't be so happy with a bunch of greedy humans invading their home. But I believe that there's also something of Origins? I believe it was something like the main four appearing in front of the people from the excavation site in Origins, warning them to stop digging or something or bad things would happen: http://prntscr.com/am2wmo This is a picture of what I'm talking about. What if the main four are actually (or least descendants of) the Vril-Ya? And they warned the humans because they expected them not to listen, setting their plans in motion?

Thats a very interesting idea, however it sounds weird if the O4 arent human but Vrill Ya. In that picture you linked they dont wear their uniforms but some sort of Ancient (Vrill?) clothes. Maybe they will in or after the last DLC travel to Agartha, where something strange happens (turn into Vrill Ya?) and after that they go to Medieval France, the time when the first humans discovered the Crazy Place, and the O4 warned them. The knights didnt went further and made that image as a warning. Around 900 years later, Germans occupied the North of France and started investigate and explore the Crazy Place, gateway to Agartha. They saw the warning but didnt took it seriously, and you know what happens next. An infinitive loop/paradox: "Primis will fail"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Steelie    14
37 minutes ago, anonymous said:

Thats a very interesting idea, however it sounds weird if the O4 arent human but Vrill Ya. In that picture you linked they dont wear their uniforms but some sort of Ancient (Vrill?) clothes. Maybe they will in or after the last DLC travel to Agartha, where something strange happens (turn into Vrill Ya?) and after that they go to Medieval France, the time when the first humans discovered the Crazy Place, and the O4 warned them. The knights didnt went further and made that image as a warning. Around 900 years later, Germans occupied the North of France and started investigate and explore the Crazy Place, gateway to Agartha. They saw the warning but didnt took it seriously, and you know what happens next. An infinitive loop/paradox: "Primis will fail"

That is also a really interesting theory, and it would indeed be weird for the O4 to be Vril-Ya and then have no memory of it. But they still might be descendants, and maybe Origins Richtofen knows it. That could explain why he knows so much, and his quote of "I have seen many things, things you couldn't even imagine." (hope I quoted that right from the top of my head).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×