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Tattoo247

Sooo....hold on a second (Questions!) Spoilers!

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Tattoo247    118

I have a quick question about the events of Origin/Giant/Der Eisendrach universe.

In the Giant, we heard Richtofen teleport Maxis and Samantha, presumably to Moon, as this happened in our first Universe in BO1 (W@W....whatever) so here is my question....Did we just kill Samantha???

Or is she still in the Pyramid when we get the keepers to move it to Der Eisendrach?

How is this a good thing? If she is still inside then she wants the players dead, if she still wants the players dead, then I doubt she is on the side of the keepers, being they seem to want Richtofen to fill the key.

But if she isn't on the side of the keepers, why was she "chosen"?

I doubt she is dead, and she keeps leaving hints and clues in this new map to help us, but originally she wanted us dead...maybe she actually will help the Origins crew?

Sorry for the crappy structure, I am about 15 minutes to leaving work, just wanted to lay this down before I forget about it tomorrow.

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anonymous    325

I also dont think Samantha is dead.

However this is an other universe then the Nacht.....Burried one, it seems the same thing happened: Richthofen traps Samantha and Maxis in the teleporter and teleports them away.

It would be logical if Sam is in the MPD and Maxis in Shangri La (just like in the other timeline), however, Treyarch loves to play games with us so there could happened anything: The coordinates of the teleporter could be different, or Sam teleported to Shangri La and Maxis to the MPD (there is a theory about that).

You also need to know the Origins Universe is an other then the the giant/DE universe.

That means that there is beside the Samantha and Maxis who were in the teleporter, also an other Samantha and Maxis somewhere.

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DrVonstool    62

I still don't own Der Eisendrache yet but I can still lay out a theory about Samantha and this "Something Else" that Richtofen describes. Since I don't know shit for shat in relation to Der Eisendrache, I'm using what I know from Der Giant and Shadows. It seems to me that by capturing the Shadow Man, we (being the origins characters) have taken a gigantic step in the correct direction. Basically, Shadow Man isn't a Keeper but he is related to this ever growing evil that is comsistent with each map. I did see some minor things from Der Eisendrache such as the paintings for some bow. In one of the paintings, we see this same Kraken Creature that we say in SoE in the painting. Obviously, Shadows of Evil introduced us to some type of "cycle".. Possibly a "Cycle of Consumption". Meaning, the Shadow Man travels far and wide to provide this "Kraken Creature" a planet to consume or to simply bond with and grow stronger from. This Evil could play on insanity much like that of Amnesia's main concept. However, much like in Evil Dead when dealing with highly evil forces, sanity begins to drain fast from victims. So it's possible that during BO1 we were learning about element 115, the distorted properties that distort reality. The we learn in BO2 that there might be a way to fix it but it requires tearing hole into something. This hole leads us to this Kraken Creature's manifestation and the manifestation of Shadow Man who is the messenger of the Kraken Creature. Basically, Samantha could've never had control but was manipulated the entire time by some unseen, unhear of, dark, and evil force that drains the sanity of its victims and all-the-while also drains the life from its victim. The other hand is that there is still a Samantha because of the Multiple Earth Theory. Meaning, if there are five earths than there are five samanthas. However, I believe that theory is meant for more tacky universes and if it comes to be that the story is going to involve seven different Samanthas then so be it. i just have one request, let's have four v four Samanathas in her bedroom. Whoever survives the longest without jumping out the window, wins.

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Tac    462

@NaBrZHunter and I went back and forth on this topic for a while, and I know he's going to disagree with me here (hence why I plugged him in), but this is my take:

1 hour ago, anonymous said:

Sam teleported to Shangri La and Maxis to the MPD (there is a theory about that).

From there, who knows haha. I also know that originally, we all said that TG and DR were same universe, but then we all agreed that they were actually different (for various reasons). Now, it seems the original idea is starting to come back to a lot of people, so that's something to consider too.

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DrVonstool    62

@Tac I try so very hard to follow the story on my own terms because if I try to follow everyone elses version of the story, I may get confused. I stick to what some user said... "We can only verify that which we have no doubt in. If any doubt exists, it is no longer fact." This is why I try to use direct quotes and pictures, symbols, and even direct comments from those who write, direct, whatever, and Jason "Blunderbuss" Blundell said that this is the same universe. Which is what I've been rolling with ever since. Let's also try to remember the dramatic irony, that the origins four have no idea that Tranzit Four did something on one of the planets that have aided either good or evil. The way that the writers could write themselves out of this plot hole is by having this Multiple Earth Theory, allowing both scenarios to play out without ever wondering what could've been.  You basically get to have your cake and eat it too. This could mean a lot to the story which is why all bets are off right now until we either A: see the two universes/planets collide or B: destroy the universe/planets containing the evil and use the saved planets' power to resolve the whole curse. These two options are simply writing options for story line not factual possibilities in this fictional story. Although, we all hope for worlds to collide and for shit to hit the ceiling fan. The writing also almost always will be contained within quotes, the structures of devices or machines or Areas of Interest, the weapons, the various secrets throughout the map. So, basically any writing technique that one could think of to solve the many plot holes has to be condensed into a single or multiple maps each taking up one full DLC slot and we only have four DLCs in a season. Not including any bonus material they may or may not create. So, with all this in mind, the writing process for a zombies story becomes the most articulate and intricate job, requiring the utmost attention to detail and attention to writing. Look at Shadows of Evil alone, those who had to write quotes and design the map had to research the timeline that they were replicating and had to use their smarts to recreate an old slang for characters like Jack and Campbell. It makes me feel sorry for these designers, I hope they get paid proper for their time and effort. In short, with all things considered, the storyline is turning out much better than anticipated. With all the different paths we could've taken, this is the most sci-fi adventurous one for our heroes to undertake. The tying of loose ends to resolve an undesired curse, the killing of the past to prevent an uncertain future, and the washing of the hands of evil to cleanse the inner soul all but three times for purity. It makes me want to create my own world and destroy it and restore it and destroy it again... And I will.

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Tac    462

@DrVonstool I don't understand what you're trying to say. Everyone here looks at facts and appreciates them more than theories, but to not accept anything outside of fact means you're essentially wasting your time with the story. Could you clarify?

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I am adamant that she is in Shangri La. Not sure where Maxis is since I thought he was in the MPD. But she is definitely in Shangri La. I made a whole theory about it to do with the new Moon loading screen we were shown.

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NaBrZHunter    489
46 minutes ago, Tac said:

@DrVonstool I don't understand what you're trying to say. Everyone here looks at facts and appreciates them more than theories, but to not accept anything outside of fact means you're essentially wasting your time with the story. Could you clarify?

BAHAHAHAHA! This quote:

Quote

Look at Shadows of Evil alone, those who had to write quotes and design the map had to research the timeline that they were replicating and had to use their smarts to recreate an old slang for characters like Jack and Campbell. It makes me feel sorry for these designers, I hope they get paid proper for their time and effort.

I agree, but I wish we could get paid proper for the work we do regarding this stuff. LOL! On the other hand, I hope these guys really really do their research. They are some lucky dudes...

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DrVonstool    62

@Tac I enjoy doing things alone because I can also create my own fantasies from my own theories. I enjoy coming here with legitimate theories about things that involve the story and trying to understand bullshit but as I try to sift through the shit I find myself getting into other people's shit. Sooner or later, it just starts to smell bad and I just can't take it. That's pretty much how the T-Virus was created. By sifting through bullshit and finding more bullshit but realizing that by possibly nursing the shit, you can grow a Bono. Whether you're growing a Bono or trying to understand the story, for me, what I'm personally trying to get from this entire experience, is the expansion of knowledge by understanding others and by doing this creating inside myself a sense of good. As for the story and what it means to me... Well, I see this whole story as a learning experience for myself. I would love to write a Sci-Fi zombie comedy about impossibility but I have no leg to stand on. However, thanks to the CoD Piece Machine I have an idea of what people want in a Sci-Fi zombie comedy. This whole time growing up with Evil Dead and being obsessed about the Zombies story, for me, was a learning experience in how to write a good story. That's what I really am going to take away from ALL of this. Maybe I should retire the forum game and go be crazy in a corner. Maybe... Or maybe I can be this forum's "9/11". Pull me out whenever it's convenient! Truly, though, I love it here because the fans are what made the story and what continue to make the story. I love hearing your obsessions because your obsession is also my obsession. However, I'm the type who wants to create a new obsession. Soury, Tac. I love you, senpai.

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PINNAZ    478
On 2/23/2016 at 1:33 PM, Tattoo247 said:

In the Giant, we heard Richtofen teleport Maxis and Samantha, presumably to Moon, as this happened in our first Universe in BO1 (W@W....whatever) so here is my question....Did we just kill Samantha???

13 hours ago, Tac said:

From there, who knows haha. I also know that originally, we all said that TG and DR were same universe, but then we all agreed that they were actually different (for various reasons). Now, it seems the original idea is starting to come back to a lot of people, so that's something to consider too.

 

Over the past few weeks, like every body else, I've been trying to iron out a theory & get a grasp of what's happening in BO3.

 

What I have come to is this ~

Der Riese & The Giant = 2 different Universes/dimensions. 

In the Giant cinematic, what we hear is the Radio from Der Riese, where Dr. Richtofen traps Dr. Maxis and Samantha in the teleporter, but all of the pictures/imagery/visuals is actually from The Giant. Making everyone believe that Richtofen just teleported Maxis & Samantha just like the World at War/Black Ops storyline. This is what I think is a Red Herring.

 

The important part of this is when it shows the Clock. It shows The Giant's Clock, then it morphs to the original Der Riese clock, and then morph's back to The Giant's Clock. 

I think that this part symbolises that these are 2 different Universes/Dimensions. (let alone all of the differences between the two maps)

Giant Trailer ~

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think that "The Giant's" Dr. Richtofen was actually teleporting Maxis & Samantha. He could have done this prior to what we see in The Giant's cinematic. I think he was laughing because he somehow figured out how to Teleport "Origins" Richtofen into The Giant's teleporter.

 

One of the most important parts to get a grasp of the storyline is the text on this Paper Scrap found in Shadows of Evil ~

A Universe has been Born...

The others must be Undone

 

World at War to Buried maps Earth has been Blown Up. It is a wasted Universe.

The Giant's & Der Eisendrache's Universe/Dimension does not matter either. The moon has been blown up. It is another wasted Universe/Dimension.

 

The one that matters is the "One that has been Born".

Maxis has somehow gained the knowledge & Power to create a Universe/Dimension that is safe. The one where he will keep "The Children"

 

TLDR;

  • Black Ops 3 is a different universe to that of WaW to Buried.
  • The Test Subjects in Black Ops 3 are not the WaW/BO characters.because it is IN A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE! They are just at an earlier time than the  WaW events.
  • For all we know, the Original characters are still on the moon in THAT UNIVERSE.

The most signifying thing that illustrates these are different Universes/Dimensions is this ~

  • World at War to Buried maps (excluding MotD) feature "Orange Element 115".
  • Origins & Black Ops 3 maps feature "Blue Divinium"
  • Mob of the Dead & Shadows of Evil are a different Universe again. Like an "Afterlife Dimension". They both have no trace of Element 115 at all.

 

And I still believe that it is somehow ALL linked to the Black Ops 3 "Corvus" & "Nightmares" storyline.

Nightmares even has the quote in the very first cinematic from Dr. Salim ~

"You have fallen between the World of the Living & the Dead.

The Void"

 

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anonymous    325
15 hours ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

I am adamant that she is in Shangri La. Not sure where Maxis is since I thought he was in the MPD. But she is definitely in Shangri La. I made a whole theory about it to do with the new Moon loading screen we were shown.

Yeah, I refered to your theory, good one.

When I saw the background of Samantha on the new moon loading screen, I immediately thought of Shangri La too.

Edited by anonymous

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DrVonstool    62

@PINNAZ  I wanted to point out that the end of the actual Origins map is a teleporter. It's hard to say but it seems to me that... This idea of "ripping holes" started from BO2. Meaning, the BO3 universe (Multiple Earth Theory) officially began under Maxis' and Richtofen's watch. If we were to assume that if there is more than one planet Earth than there is more than one possibility. Meaning, the Tranzit crew could've possibly done it all. Created the hole in the universe where Maxis could be with Samantha AND gave control to Richtofen AND perished. Flash forward to Origins and the new Earth is born. A good Richtofen emerges. Well.. Somewhat good, for now. My primary point is that there's a pattern to all of this. A variable that is unchanged. It could be that the pattern is that of Origins. Where our heroes must harness the elements in order to rip a hole through the universe in order to connect with a separate Earth or to destroy the one they stand on. If we consider how Richtofen appeared in that teleporter.. Because these teleporters aren't receivers are they? last I recall they were only able to send patients to the main frame or to another place of origin. There are some great anomalies that I don't think the writers considered. For example, PINNAZ points out that The Giant is a completely separate universe which could make sense if only Dempsey didn't look exactly like WaW Dempsey. I just have a hunch that their intentions were to design his model specifically to those specifications to make everyone think this way. However, there is still a huge wall here. Everything else. If this were to be the supposed, "original timeline" we would be using original timeline weapons. However, this is the Multiple Earth Theory we're discussing. So, if it's possible to have a Tranzit crew fulfill both paths and still perish then it could be possible for Dempsey to die in Der Eisendrache but still be alive and on the moon. Same goes for the moon, lol. It may be destroyed now but it could also be the wrong moon, so to speak. Looking over PINNAZ's post reveals the scraps from SoE detailing mistakes being made in false planets. It could be that these scraps are from a hero or a villian. For me, I jokingly think it's Shadow Man's. 'Cause apparently, Cthulu has been swallowing planets since the old days when armor was made of steel not kevlar. Maybe this is the cycle we are becoming newly aware of. "Cycle of Consumption"? It makes sense since all the humans in this cycle also are trapped in this cycle of consumption. Humans have to consume 115 or the super human potions that give them the strength and agility to continue the fight against the consumption of their planet. Let's also try to consider whether or not these planets exist on the same plane as each other. When we look into the sky on SoE there are no signs of another planet flying around or near us. So is it possible to say that we might be introduced to a new scientific discovery surrounding the concept of vibrations and universal planes? Yes. However, at this point it's also possible to say "Hey, this story is all just hogwash anyways. It's a child's imagination, fuck you." In response, I say "-nerdy story comments- -nerdy story points- AND -nerdy character quotes-." Science is infinite. Science is none. Science is all. Science is life.

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NaBrZHunter    489

@DrVonstool All universes exist in different dimensions which all lie in the Aethereal plane. Other universes are not visible from the one you occupy because it is a separate dimension, elsewhere in the Aether.

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40 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

@DrVonstool All universes exist in different dimensions which all lie in the Aethereal plane. Other universes are not visible from the one you occupy because it is a separate dimension, elsewhere in the Aether.

That was really confusing, even for me.

My take is that there is one world, the world of one, the Prime World, as I call it. That is THE world, the one where the children and the house reside that we must protect from the Calamity inside of the dimensions. In fact, they aren't even really dimensions. I know PTG aren't liked here but they have the name for them "aspects", as in ethereal aspects. Its like this: there is one world, but then we get these aspects of that world that exist, such as an aspect of reality where WaW to BO2 happen, or Origins to Der Eisendrache. They are similar, but a little different. Essentially other dimensions, but in my eyes its all the same dimension, universe or whatever, its just that there is one world that these other worlds are spanning from and going down their paths.

Although I agree about the ethereal plane part, but maybe not the Prime World. It seems like there is the Prime World and then the Aether is separate from that and that's where these words come into play.

Sorry if that was all confusing, but its how I explain it at least.

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NaBrZHunter    489

@Nightmare Voyager you're probably right about that. 

Let me change a word:

Each individual universe exists in its own dimension, which lies in the Aethereal plane. Other universes are not visible from the one you occupy because it is a separate dimension, elsewhere in the Aether. If earth was a hampster, the dimension would be a hampster ball. Place it in a pool of water and the water would be the Aether. 

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DrVonstool    62

@NaBrZHunter This completely makes sense to me because I have done research completely unrelated to zombies about this existing in real life. I think I remember the water being the different waves of light and energy that we can perceive. One being the very small window of visible light that humans can decode and others being much faster or shorter waves that we cannot decode. Meaning they all overlap each other without ever physically touching. Much like music and harmonies.

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13 minutes ago, NaBrZHunter said:

@Nightmare Voyager you're probably right about that. 

Let me change a word:

Each individual universe exists in its own dimension, which lies in the Aethereal plane. Other universes are not visible from the one you occupy because it is a separate dimension, elsewhere in the Aether. If earth was a hampster, the dimension would be a hampster ball. Place it in a pool of water and the water would be the Aether. 

I love that analogy for it. Especially the thing about the hamster.

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anonymous    325
16 hours ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

That was really confusing, even for me.

My take is that there is one world, the world of one, the Prime World, as I call it. That is THE world, the one where the children and the house reside that we must protect from the Calamity inside of the dimensions. In fact, they aren't even really dimensions. I know PTG aren't liked here but they have the name for them "aspects", as in ethereal aspects. Its like this: there is one world, but then we get these aspects of that world that exist, such as an aspect of reality where WaW to BO2 happen, or Origins to Der Eisendrache. They are similar, but a little different. Essentially other dimensions, but in my eyes its all the same dimension, universe or whatever, its just that there is one world that these other worlds are spanning from and going down their paths.

Although I agree about the ethereal plane part, but maybe not the Prime World. It seems like there is the Prime World and then the Aether is separate from that and that's where these words come into play.

Sorry if that was all confusing, but its how I explain it at least.

Could the Prime world, the world with the house with children, be Agartha, the central world?

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7 hours ago, anonymous said:

Could the Prime world, the world with the house with children, be Agartha, the central world?

Samantha was trapped in Agartha in Origins and we end up returning her to the house, there is a Giant radio that talks about that, so I don't think so. Unless in that radio, Maxis was lying about saving Samantha and in fact took her from the house. I don't think it can be unless their is a big deception going on, which is a possibility.

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Tac    462
8 hours ago, anonymous said:

Could the Prime world, the world with the house with children, be Agartha, the central world?

I have to side with @Nightmare Voyager and likely say no, unless (as he touched on) the being in Origins that we think is Samantha isn't actually. I know this theory has its strong proponents, so it's something to keep in mind.

1 hour ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

Samantha was trapped in Agartha in Origins and we end up returning her to the house, there is a Giant radio that talks about that, so I don't think so. Unless in that radio, Maxis was lying about saving Samantha and in fact took her from the house. I don't think it can be unless their is a big deception going on, which is a possibility.

I do argue against that premise, however, that the radio is documenting the move from Agartha to the house. Obviously, the Giant radios are something we don't have a good grasp on (seeing as there are a lot of theories regarding them) and you acknowledge it could be different, but I wanted to at least express that I have doubts on the theory (not that I have some fully formed thought on it myself).

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54 minutes ago, Tac said:

I have to side with @Nightmare Voyager and likely say no, unless (as he touched on) the being in Origins that we think is Samantha isn't actually. I know this theory has its strong proponents, so it's something to keep in mind.

I do argue against that premise, however, that the radio is documenting the move from Agartha to the house. Obviously, the Giant radios are something we don't have a good grasp on (seeing as there are a lot of theories regarding them) and you acknowledge it could be different, but I wanted to at least express that I have doubts on the theory (not that I have some fully formed thought on it myself).

I am talking about the radio where Samantha has been returned from Agartha to Maxis but she is changed and only cries out for Eddy.

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Tac    462
54 minutes ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

I am talking about the radio where Samantha has been returned from Agartha to Maxis but she is changed and only cries out for Eddy.

We're referring to the same radio

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On 2/24/2016 at 4:59 AM, PINNAZ said:

And I still believe that it is somehow ALL linked to the Black Ops 3 "Corvus" & "Nightmares" storyline.

Nightmares even has the quote in the very first cinematic from Dr. Salim ~

"You have fallen between the World of the Living & the Dead.

The Void"

 

 

i really hope that its not linked to corvus because that would be just as bad as when we thought origins was the end

 

 

 

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DaveLo07    172

@deamonkeeper I honestly don't think it matters what they choose for the 'twist' at the end of the storyline to be, as long as the writers realise that we want a resolution for the original characters/storyline. This is where so many storytellers seem to let their fans down. Whether zombies was a child's game, a nightmare, or any other scenario should be secondary as long as they don't use it as a way of justifying not tying up loose ends or as an easy way out. 

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17 hours ago, Tac said:

We're referring to the same radio

Okay. Well I think that radio is Samantha after we save her in Origins. I can't really put anything else on it.

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