Apothicon Servant Quest, in relation to the Placement of, "Gateworms"! *Updated*

[Conzul 24]

Observation: The ritual altars that contain water - during the ritual, the inner channel will be set on fire, while the altars that have no water will not have their inner channel set afire.

Observation: After a successful Totem charge cycle, damaging Apothicon traps appear throughout the map, colored purple. They do not do much damage, and by themselves cannot kill you no matter how fast you "collect" them. Stepping on one of them permanently removes it. However, not all of them can be collected, as some of them appear under environmental debris and cannot be walked over/near. Note - they can be collected while in beast mode, resulting in an odd sound effect for each one.

Observation: Each altar has a specific "side" that corresponds with a character. This is unchanging. Jackie Vincent's apothicon name-symbol always gets the front, or rather, gets the side the ritual item will face. Nero always is opposite Jakie. Floyd is always left of Jakie. Jessica is always to the right of Jakie. However, not all apothicon name-symbols are rotated to make their characters face the altar. For example, Floyd's symbol has him facing his back toward the altar while Jakie's symbol makes him face the altar.

Observation: We never truly give up/lose the Summoning Key. We hold onto it and it remains in the same state until we start the PaP ritual. Once we hold [interact] on the PaP altar, the Summoning Key (that we never give up) immediately becomes charged. You can observe this by having your tray open while pressing [interact]. It doesn't even wait for the PaP ritual to finish. In this sense, we create the Apothicon Rift Stone out of nothing, and then the Shadow Man snatches it, and holds onto it until Richthofen eventually snatches it further away. But we never lose the actual Summoning Key. We may lose it in a story sense, but in a gameplay sense it stays right in our inventory.

[Ragdo11706 363]

@Conzul

_____

I've also noticed during the Totem Phase, the "Apothicon Symbols" can also be "Collected" by the Civil Protector & by Elemental/Meatballs.

There may actually be more here than meets the eye. Honestly what would be the reasoning behind why Treyarch would want to put these in only after you've charged the Totem, whee nearly Half of them won't even affect you.

[Conzul 24]

9 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

@Conzul

_____

I've also noticed during the Totem Phase, the "Apothicon Symbols" can also be "Collected" by the Civil Protector & by Elemental/Meatballs.

There may actually be more here than meets the eye. Honestly what would be the reasoning behind why Treyarch would want to put these in only after you've charged the Totem, whee nearly Half of them won't even affect you.

Yes I think they warrant some exploration.

[Ragdo11706 363]

16 hours ago, Conzul said:

Yes I think they warrant some exploration.

Me too, especially given the fact, I believe this is the one "Step/Part" during the entirety of the map that is the "Least" Explored.

Everyone just sees an A > B > C linearity (as how you've even stated yourself). When in reality there could be far greater things going on during this time.

You've got once chance, 4 different times. Not exactly sure whstnall would need to be done, but starting with the "Purple Apothicon Symbols" would be a great place to start.

[Conzul 24]

K so I'm pretty sure that I found the next step. Or rather, the beginning part of it. I just need to replicate it once and I'll be positive. 

I had to learn how to defeat the Shadow Man though. So I'm starting to think that was the missing prerequisite. I have a video but I'm so tired from staying up all night so I'll post it in a few hours. 

[Conzul 24]

Max Ammo Breadcrumb - running time 43 sec

K so turn it up so you can hear the sound effect cue, first at 9 sec and again at 24. At about 9 seconds in, I heard the PaP make a weird noise so I looked around and it had spat out a Max Ammo powerup, dead center in front of it.

 

Backstory: I was trying to defeat the Shadowman (never got that far before), so this happened right after. Shadow man is easy. Can't believe I was ever intimidated. So right after, I started looking for any clues to if the Servant EE could continue. Prior, I had the Servant fully prepped and cue'd (Zornash, Na'orruja zornash!) so I figured if it means altar id-gun altar then I'll try with the basics like killing in front of PaP, even though I didn't think that would do anything 'cus so many others have tried, but I figured oh well start there and move on. So after about 50-100 kills with the Servant right in front of the PaP, this happened, so I hit record. I was playing with my brother and he was shooting at my zombies occasionally because he's a dick, but it had been awhile since he did that so that's not how the max ammo spawned. Basically, a metallic-crunching sound effect (not voice effect) played the instant that I led that hoard of zombies past the PaP, and then the Ammo spawned. I seriously regret not having my camera facing that way but I sure as hell will next time.

 

So far in Bo3, the ONLY time Max Ammo's will spawn separate from a dog-round or gumballs or pods or w/e, is when you're A) doing the EE for that map, or B) upgrading the Wonder Weapon for that map. I.E. Charging the flag in Shadows will reward success with Max Ammo; rebuilding an elemental arrow in Der Eisendrache will reward a max ammo, etc. Always, the game breadcrumbs you with these immediately after a significant step has successfully completed.

So.....yeah. I need to do it again just to be sure, but I didn't get that far again last night. When it happened I almost had a heart attack with delight, then I went through the usual stages of doubt and disbelief, etc. Tell me if any of you can replicate it or if you already know what it's for? Thanks.

edit: video link fixed

edit 2: This is the SECOND discovered breadcrumb for the Servant. The FIRST is when you get your first multi-kill and it always spawns a Max Ammo right on the spot.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Conzul

[83457 263]

The video wouldn't play well.

Good luck, i hope that you're onto something, but i don't agree on the max ammo only appearing at certain times. They do regulary appear at random intervals. 

[Ragdo11706 363]

I've never seen a Max Ammo or anypther Power-Up just appear without a Zombie being killed.

The exception being things like the starting door on Shadows, the Gondola on D.E., placing the arrow in its Altar in the Undercroft, and completely charging the Totem on Shadows.

_______

Could it possibly be leading towards us needing to have "Killed" the Shadow Man, before we even build the Apothicon Servant. 

It seems like the "Voice" we often hear (Apothicon Servant, Apothicon Sword, Archon Sword, Void Bow) is all the same "Entity".My guess would be the Creature you see on Shadows when you receive a Max Ammo.

[Conzul 24]

4 hours ago, 83457 said:

The video wouldn't play well.

Good luck, i hope that you're onto something, but i don't agree on the max ammo only appearing at certain times. They do regulary appear at random intervals. 

Yeah with kills they appear randomly, but they don't just appear out of thin air unless you're doing an EE.

[Ragdo11706 363]

3 hours ago, Conzul said:

Yeah with kills they appear randomly, but they don't just appear out of thin air unless you're doing an EE.

And your absolutely positive 100% no doubt, the one in your video just appeared there. Have you been able to recreate this.

Was the Shadow Man already dead (Trapped in the Summoning Key). What other pre-requisites had you done beforehand, "Upgrade_Ready" Quote (Yes/No), Margwa Mask (Yes/No), Jessica's Song (Yes/No), Upgraded "Shield", "Trip-Mines", or "Lil' Arnies".

______

*EDIT* 

So after watching the video numerous times, I'm almost positive, whoever you were playing with shot into your Zombies and activate his Alternate Ammo Type, in this case"FireWorks".

At both instances when the sound is made he receives points, and the FireWorks sound plays both times.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[Conzul 24]

18 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

And your absolutely positive 100% no doubt, the one in your video just appeared there. Have you been able to recreate this.

Was the Shadow Man already dead (Trapped in the Summoning Key). What other pre-requisites had you done beforehand, "Upgrade_Ready" Quote (Yes/No), Margwa Mask (Yes/No), Jessica's Song (Yes/No), Upgraded "Shield", "Trip-Mines", or "Lil' Arnies".

______

*EDIT* 

So after watching the video numerous times, I'm almost positive, whoever you were playing with shot into your Zombies and activate his Alternate Ammo Type, in this case"FireWorks".

At both instances when the sound is made he receives points, and the FireWorks sound plays both times.

He didn't have Fireworks he had Thunder Wall. Also there are NO zombie bodies by that ammo drop. Because I was the only one making kills there with the Servant and the Servant doesn't leave bodies.

I'll be on later, and try to re-create.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Conzul

[Ragdo11706 363]

Gotcha. Well to me it sounded like FireWorks, which would also make sense because the zombies bodies explode when hit. I would just try replicating it on Solo, that way you know there is no possible way for any interference.

[Conzul 24]

4 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

Gotcha. Well to me it sounded like FireWorks, which would also make sense because the zombies bodies explode when hit. I would just try replicating it on Solo, that way you know there is no possible way for any interference.

Yes, until I can get it to happen again I know it's not proven. 

[Jami San 22]

IF you can re-create the max ammo drop every time, then you have found a bread-crumb .  But there is no way to be sure until you try this solo, for now I assume the max was dropped like normal from a killed zombie that you or your partner killed.

That being said ,  I do think a max ammo drop without a killed zombie IS a breadcrumb from 3arch. Just need to know if that is what actually happened.

Great Work so far...keep it up.

[Conzul 24]

Anyway here's the game state for that playthrough:

All ritual/PaP completed, 

Worms placed incorrectly, 

Margwa head achieved but not worn, 

Servant prepped, cued (Upgrade_Ready2),

Trip mines acquired,

Cold Hard Cash EE complete, 

At least ten Apothicon traps collected with Beast,

Widow's Wine held; wormholed 10+ snared ujoth,

Apothicon stone red blink, 

Shadow Man killed, 

That's all I can remember. I'm kicking myself for trimming the clip. It was much longer since I have my share save set for ten mins. I thought I'd trim it for relevance but I didn't know how worried you all would get about my partner shooting the zombies. I can't confirm this is an EE, but I can confirm without a doubt that he didn't shoot any on that round. I didn't hear any more bullets flying past me after I yelled at him

EDIT: this thread used to be about worm placement before I hijacked it :P So I think today's patch notes are relevant.

Zombies

General

• All GobbleGum machines in a level are now active at all times.
• The GobbleGum machine can now be accessed multiple times per round.
• The Liquid Divinium drop rate cap of two vials per game has been removed; Players can now continue to earn Liquid
• Divinium as they progress through a match.
• The Player’s current GobbleGum pack will now be represented in the inventory screen.

Shadows of Evil

• Personal items and gate worms will now use a shared inventory system.
• The Ritual duration time has been reduced.
• Addressed a bug where Players were unable to progress after upgrading the Apothicon Swords and then bleeding out.
• Several stability issues with the main quest have been addressed.
• Fixed bug where Margwas would continue to go after downed players.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Conzul

[Conzul 24]

I tried to replicate it twice on solo, but no luck so far X(. At least I'm getting better at killing Shadowman - easy as PaP, guess I'll do it from now on.

Also I can't get my sword counter to go down by even one. I don't get it. I slew hoards of zombies by decapitation - maybe it was just a bug that they fixed? There are several changes that aren't in the patch notes.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Conzul

[83457 263]

On 3/21/2016 at 6:32 PM, Conzul said:

 

EDIT: this thread used to be about worm placement before I hijacked it :P So I think today's patch notes are relevant.

Zombies

General

• All GobbleGum machines in a level are now active at all times.
• The GobbleGum machine can now be accessed multiple times per round.
• The Liquid Divinium drop rate cap of two vials per game has been removed; Players can now continue to earn Liquid
• Divinium as they progress through a match.
• The Player’s current GobbleGum pack will now be represented in the inventory screen.

Shadows of Evil

• Personal items and gate worms will now use a shared inventory system.
• The Ritual duration time has been reduced.
• Addressed a bug where Players were unable to progress after upgrading the Apothicon Swords and then bleeding out.
• Several stability issues with the main quest have been addressed.
• Fixed bug where Margwas would continue to go after downed players.

Those are some nice fixes. Hunting down GG machines was annoying. The GG pack in inventory is nice too. More Licky-D is always welcome, though i somehow doubt that the old divinium run goodness has returned. But maybe. 

And now back to our thread...

[83457 263]

On the max ammo (video worked today): wierd.

However, you can hear your partner shoot at that moment and he appears to be aligned with the doorway to pap at that moment, so i would guess stray bullet or stray thunderwall effect from having line-of-sight at that moment. 

[Ragdo11706 363]

Well see heres the thing about the Max Ammo being a Bread-Crumb, Treyarch have 2 ways in which this can work. On D.E. when shooting the "Wrath of Ancients" towards the Fireplace for the Earth Bow, if you get the Rock there in "3" shots the Fireplace gives you a Max Ammo. However, if you make it there in "4" shots no Max Ammo is given.

This could be an instance similar to that of D.E. where you've done something in X amount of "Shots" or whatever it may have been.

_______

@Conzul

What did you mean by "Apothicon Stone Red Blink"?!?!

[Conzul 24]

Oh didn't you know? Both during the PaP ritual, and while killing the Shadowman, if you run up to the Apothicon Rift Stone (or Summoning Key, if you prefer) and hold [INTERACT], you will see one of its 6 symbols blinking red. It may be hard to see but it's one of the symbols by the top, and it's always the same one. 

The Servant symbol is always blazing bright and the other symbols do nothing, but there's that blinking red one. 

 

Personally I think it's a marker that we missed something, but we're allowed to PaP anyway. I'll post a gif or something later once I get home.

[Ragdo11706 363]

5 hours ago, Conzul said:

Oh didn't you know? Both during the PaP ritual, and while killing the Shadowman, if you run up to the Apothicon Rift Stone (or Summoning Key, if you prefer) and hold [INTERACT], you will see one of its 6 symbols blinking red. It may be hard to see but it's one of the symbols by the top, and it's always the same one. 

The Servant symbol is always blazing bright and the other symbols do nothing, but there's that blinking red one. 

 

Personally I think it's a marker that we missed something, but we're allowed to PaP anyway. I'll post a gif or something later once I get home.

Interesting...

Nope, I did not know this. First I've heard of it, as well as I'm sure alot of others didn't know about this either.

Can you do this during all of the Rituals?!?!

_______

Also why in the F**K didn't Treyarch make the Bow Quests on a Shared Inventory, that shit is retarded on Solo I can't pick up the Wolf Skull or shoot the Fire Rock unless I'm holding the correct Arrow.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[Conzul 24]

1 hour ago, Ragdo11706 said:

Can you do this during all of the Rituals?!?!

Not that I'm aware of. But I doubt it, since during all the normal rituals each "symbol" breaks out of the Summoning Key and flies around the victim.

Anyway, here's a shitty GIF I made showing what happens if you go up to the Stone and hold [INTERACT] during PaP. You should be able to see the symbol blinking red. It will continue to do so for as long as you're willing to watch.

This is the symbol that blinks red. It is the only one that does so. Others have postulated that it is "Gwaoth", however they do not account for the "orr" syllable (the comet-looking part). Therefore, it could be said to be Orgwaoth, or perhaps Gwaorroth. Off the top of my head, I do not know if it appears anywhere else in Morg City

Edited March 24, 2016 by Conzul

[Akito 0]

Hi lads,

I've been ghosting around this forum and the subredit for months now and finally deceided to make an account.

I've seen some mad theories around here (especially from Ragdol :D) which always kept me hyped for this Upgrade quest. good job on that!

When i look at the gif Conzul made i notice that the red part part that makes the symbol blink red is there whole the time.. and it just happens to blink up that symbol when it hovers over the red part.. not to burst any ones bubble but i thought i'd mention this

[Ragdo11706 363]

On 2/6/2016 at 2:12 AM, Ragdo11706 said:

One thing for certain from playing Der Eisendrache, these Symbols are the Prefix/Suffix of a more Compound "Apothicon Word"

__________

At first I thought they stayed the same every game and were translated to what the carving was, however that's just where you activate the Symbols. I have another post I made, I will probably end up linking, as it shows the similarities in the "Keeper Language".

_________

1. Uja

2. Ulla

3. Lor

4. Oth

5. Zor

6. Mar

 

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Ragdo11706

[Ragdo11706 363]

On 2/5/2016 at 4:59 PM, Ragdo11706 said:

 

 I'm pretty sure this pertains to "Keeper Language" although were not certain of the Translations as of yet, there's a distinct difference between "Apothicon" & "Keeper" Language. 

So in Shadows of Evil we acquired 4 "Archon Swords" or "Keeper Swords" once we finally cleansed ourselves from our misdeeds. Now I'm not 100% sure on this but I feel as if the names may actually be the names of the Specific "Keeper" we Summon, in order to defeat the "Shadow Man". Until we have a better understanding of the Language itself, this is a safe bet.

The names of the "Keeper Swords" are as follows;

 

• Kreesaleet la Ahmahm

• Kreelasha lu Ahmkhaaleet

• Goahlo lu Kortahn

• Shaitahn lu Kreemahogra

_________

So after the events at Griffin Castle, where we uncover the "Wrath of the Ancients", we learn of 4 more "Keepers" or 4 New "Keeper Phrases".

Those of which are as follows;

 

• Storm Bow - Kreema'ahm la Ahmahm
• Spirit Bow - Kreeholo lu Kreemasaleet
• Earth Bow - Kreeaho'ahm nal Ahmhogaroc
• Void Bow - Kreegakaleet lu Gosata'ahm