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For the time being, their may be no Apothicon Servant upgrade

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https://www.reddit.com/r/CODZombies/comments/3z31tj/here_we_gotired_and_worn_out/

This guy has been very helpful on the Reddit with debunking upgrade methods. I know people may not like going into the files, but this guy basically explains that there is no way to upgrade the Apothicon Servant in Shadows of Evil at this time. That means that the possibility remains of it existing in later patches or possibily not at all. He even says that their is a possible slim chance that the upgrade does exist in game and is incredibly well hidden. But I do not believe that sadly. I can understand why it would be kept out of the game too. They want some secrets to remain and be found fairly, not datamined. It makes sense. I would like to hear everyone elses opinions on this because I think its very important for us to decide whether or not it exists in the game.

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Pasta    11

The only thing that was bothering me about searching for this upgrade was the dawning realization that it may not be upgradeable.  If this is the case, then honestly my mind is at ease.  T-Virus cured.

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6 minutes ago, Pasta said:

The only thing that was bothering me about searching for this upgrade was the dawning realization that it may not be upgradeable.  If this is the case, then honestly my mind is at ease.  T-Virus cured.

I just hope people are going to be able to understand what this post is saying. The Reddit community gave up, if they have then that should be convincing enough to people that this guy is believable.

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Pasta    11
1 hour ago, Nightmare Voyager said:

I just hope people are going to be able to understand what this post is saying. The Reddit community gave up, if they have then that should be convincing enough to people that this guy is believable.

As of right now, my focus will now be on the sword counter lol that's the only concrete finding we have left as of right now.

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18 minutes ago, Pasta said:

As of right now, my focus will now be on the sword counter lol that's the only concrete finding we have left as of right now.

I am a bit confused about the sword counter, could you explain it to me?

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Ragdo11706    363

Honestly I'm not surprised, however there's a few "Key" points that I would definitely have to argue against DFs claim. 

I. To begin with, I honestly believe this is the first time we can actually "Fail". By that I mean, I believe there's a strict path you must follow in order to obtain this. If you go to far your f**ked, restart and try again. Don't even try to say that Treyarch would never put a feature like that in a map. That's like saying they would never make up there own damn language. All so we had no earthly idea what the f**k the voice was saying.

II. I would love to know when he got his results if he was still holding the damn thing. I've personally gotten to a point, where after 150,000 points I still hadn't gotten it back out the box. Better yet I didn't even see in the Rotation of Weapons inside the box. Normally it takes no longer than 2 full cycles of the box, or moving it to two differentl locations. This usually costs between 10,000 - 15,000 points.

III. Finally, I understand why we have a Greeting Player Quote. Similarly to both versions of the Sword. They greet us, yet they don't have any other Ready-Upgrade quotes. So why the f**k would they leave the Ready-Upgrade quote in the game. To lead us on a wild ass goose chase for 2 months, so everyone gets pissed off at Trans(h)it 2.0. 

Yea, there's a possibility I guess, but that'd be rather f**ked up. Not too mention Jason Blundell stated, he was tired of us always figuring this shit out soo damn fast. As far as that guy messaging GlitchingQueen about "Thinking we would never figure out the Lil' Arnie upgrade". He knew that was bullshit.

These are my opinions on the entire situation. Some of you may agree & some of you may disagree. But again opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one!

 

/Rant Over 

 

@Nightmare Voyager

As far as the Sword Counter goes, basically what happens is, when you have the "Apothicon Sword" equipped there's an image of a Sword. Once you've acquired the "Keepers Sword", when you have it equipped there's a counter next to it. It starts out reading 10/10 but for every Zombies head you cut off it goes down 9/9, 8/8, etc... Etc.. until you reach 0/0.

Edited by Ragdo11706

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Ragdo11706    363

No sir they haven't. Although the other day while playing, right before I put the Sword away, the counter did read 0/0. Both of the 0 were Red. This may have been (more than likely) a result of me getting ready to put in back. 

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DaveLo07    172

 When you look at the gameplay side of things, there are many reasons why an upgrade is not necessary. The wonder weapon is always an instant kill and with the alchemical antithesis gobblegum, the ammo is rarely an issue. 

6 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

 

II. I would love to know when he got his results if he was still holding the damn thing. I've personally gotten to a point, where after 150,000 points I still hadn't gotten it back out the box. Better yet I didn't even see in the Rotation of Weapons inside the box. Normally it takes no longer than 2 full cycles of the box, or moving it to two differentl locations. This usually costs between 10,000 - 15,000 points.

 

I got the wonder weapon back from the box the other day, and there was no noticeable change. However, I was intrigued that the version I got from the box was the same as the one I had built. We have 4 different names for the swords and reborn swords which are character specific. Then we have 4 different names for the ww which are not character specific and as of yet we do not know a method to pick which ww we build. But once it is built, it would appear that is the only incarnation of the weapon you can get back from the box. Why? Why would it even matter if all 4 of these weapons are identical in ammo and effect? It could be something that was cut from the game or unfinished, but then why not just scrap all the different names? 

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Ragdo11706    363
28 minutes ago, DaveLo07 said:

 When you look at the gameplay side of things, there are many reasons why an upgrade is not necessary. The wonder weapon is always an instant kill and with the alchemical antithesis gobblegum, the ammo is rarely an issue. 

I got the wonder weapon back from the box the other day, and there was no noticeable change. However, I was intrigued that the version I got from the box was the same as the one I had built. We have 4 different names for the swords and reborn swords which are character specific. Then we have 4 different names for the ww which are not character specific and as of yet we do not know a method to pick which ww we build. But once it is built, it would appear that is the only incarnation of the weapon you can get back from the box. Why? Why would it even matter if all 4 of these weapons are identical in ammo and effect? It could be something that was cut from the game or unfinished, but then why not just scrap all the different names? 

Exactly. I've had 100 games where I've gotten it back out the Box. Same name and everything. Then there are those very few >5 that I've literally spent 30 mins and over 100,000 points and never got it back. Craziest part is, I didn't even see it in the box while it was cycling through the weapons.

I thought I had worked out a formula for what determines the name, but as you and a few other people pointed out, this is however not the case. Honestly I kind of thinking it's predetermined when the game loads. Thus making it completely random. With that being said, I do know for a fact that I Never get Lor-Zarozzor. Up until the other day I very seldomly got Mar-Astagua, now all of a sudden the past 4-5 games I've gotten the Mar-Astagua every time.

As far as gameplay goes I'm just going to quote something I put on Reddit.

In all honesty though, the upgraded version of the Apothicon Servant was no more OP than the Ultimate Ice Staff from Origins, or the Vitriolic Withering, Hells Redeemer, & Electric Cherry combo from MotD.

What made it so OP, was the combination of the "Reborn" Sword (& how fast it recharges) & Widows Wine, as well as taking advantage of the Spawn Zones. While standing in Zandis Smoke Lounge with the Train door closed, this forced the Zombies to Spawn from 2 Zones instead of 3 or 4.

This is very similar to the type of thing that happened in Die Rise, with the Elevator Shaft. One shot would clear the entire Round. If you were to actually hoard the Zomies and not Camp, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

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Chopper    188
3 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

What made it so OP, was the combination of the "Reborn" Sword (& how fast it recharges) & Widows Wine, as well as taking advantage of the Spawn Zones. While standing in Zandis Smoke Lounge with the Train door closed, this forced the Zombies to Spawn from 2 Zones instead of 3 or 4.

This is very similar to the type of thing that happened in Die Rise, with the Elevator Shaft. One shot would clear the entire Round. If you were to actually hoard the Zomies and not Camp, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

It's all about this.

My biggest issue is that I can't see why Treyarch are doing it.  Each and everyone of their games have had people go over round 200.  Including their newest map.  They have a perma insta kill weapon available from the fucking wall.

Literally, the only ultimate difference is that without being able to PAP, people still get to the same rounds but it just takes longer.

Extra ammo is certainly going to help casual or newer players get higher, simply because this gun is so good at both killing and just firing at your feet when in trouble.  Again, what is actually wrong with that.  There will still come a point when players do run out of ammo, and then they will have to start running if they have been camping.  But you know what, if that makes some kid out there happy and able to get to a higher round, then what's the issue?

It's not like Die Rise, where by patching the gun they actually limited the amount of rounds possible.

I said it somewhere before but it's almost as if Treyarch are doing this to be vicious towards.....I don't know who, maybe a high round player said some mean things about one of the developers; but there is no reason that I can see for them to do this.

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TimelordAlex    52

It honestly wouldn't surprise me that when they 'fixed' the bug where we could PaP it, they actually broke the proper way to upgrade it the same time, as they are known for fixing and braking things the same time. They've tried to fix the wunderwaffe, and well they have improved it, but its not how it was in BO1 still. I don't get why they wont tell us exactly what has been fixed in patch notes, a lot of stuff they've fixed though was useful stuff to us, and yet the giant catwalk glitch is STILL there?

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TimelordAlex    52
4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

It's not like Die Rise, where by patching the gun they actually limited the amount of rounds possible.

I said it somewhere before but it's almost as if Treyarch are doing this to be vicious towards.....I don't know who, maybe a high round player said some mean things about one of the developers; but there is no reason that I can see for them to do this.

Supposedly its about them not wanting us to be on the servers too long - MP games dont last long at all but zombie games can go from 30 mins to several days, so they are limiting the amount of rounds we can get too which makes no sense when the purpose of zombies was to survive as high as you can but now we are limited because of 3arc.

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Chopper    188
4 minutes ago, TimelordAlex said:

Supposedly its about them not wanting us to be on the servers too long - MP games dont last long at all but zombie games can go from 30 mins to several days, so they are limiting the amount of rounds we can get too which makes no sense when the purpose of zombies was to survive as high as you can but now we are limited because of 3arc.

If that was true and could be proven I'm almost certain that would be against the law unless it's very clear in their ToS that they can control the amount of time you spend on their servers.  Maintenance is difference from actively trying to keep you off them.

What they are basically doing is allowing people to buy a game with (for certain people) an expectation that there are no limits on how long they can play for.

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83457    263

I see no point in taking out the gumball effect if it can't be upgraded.

Taking out the gumball means one of a few things:

"We want you to find it legit, no corner-cutting allowed". Seems odd and should have been left alone while they fixed actual issues with the game. 

"It was never supposed to be in there". So, the gum wasn't supposed to work? Taking it out only hurts players feelings and the gameplay. The gumball didn't swing the game, is otherwise underpowered, and again, there was more important stuff to fix than this.

" We hate that people found a simple way to upgrade AS, that we shamefully missed in playtesting, so we pulled it from the game entirely ". Too late, we knew it existed, there is no way to take it back and save face.

Unless they are fixing it, for it to return once it has been polished up and unglitchable. This, while sad that the game is so unfinished, would be acceptable and even responsible, though i feel it should have waited until some of the glitchier stuff was fixed. They haven't reset the leaderboards, so that gives hope for this.

Basically, if Trollarch pulled the AS from the game forever, then they just cemented this as TranZit2 and are as clueless as i often claim they are.

I really hope they do stop proving me right.

----+--+---+++

Edit: also, teasing a tiny piece of the language makes no sense if there isn't an upgrade.

Most language in game will probably be found to be badly explained desriptions of what things in the game do.

If there is nothing more to find, then they would have just shared the language for fun.

It came like a clue, to draw attention to the languages (and i feel that the Keeper language would be more helpful, so they teased the other to kind of get us on track with the languages, but nobody is looking at the Keeper language, because we don't have much to go on). 

And why have the upgrade cues in the game? Just more sloppy programming? "Oops, you can't actually do that"? That makes no sense.

So either the AS upgrade is in there, or we got Trollarched again.

Shrug. Not hating, but tired of feeling ripped off. It best be in the game.

 

 

Edited by 83457

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Thats the general reaction to all of this. It all seems off really. I believe it is not in there. But I also believe that it could be added later on. Still, if they code all of that stupid cocoon stuff in and then decide "no upgrade" at least let us do the standard thing and put it in the Pack-a-Punch Machine since I guarantee that would have taken them literally an hour at the most to replace that for the stupid cocoons. I can even see why they would take it out for the high rounds thing, which actually I think is really dumb and if that is the reason then they will get a whole lot of backlash.

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Dr.Z    14

I don't think treyarch would keep all these half existing functions in the game for no reason. They are trying to give us a difficult EE in my opinion. There are many things we are unsure about with this map; plenty of steps/quotes that we need to figure out how to replicate 100%. The journey with SOE still continues with me, I'm not saying we can get a WW upgrade today, but there are definitely secrets left still. 

Edited by Dr.Z

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TimelordAlex    52

@Nightmare Voyager It should just be able to be PaPed imo doesnt need some silly step, i know myself and my friends would play SoE more, if we could just Pap the WW and survive. 

@Chopper Well ATVI and 3arc are knowing for fucking with us on many occasions, so it should be no surprise tbh.

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Dr.Z    14

Personally I like all the hidden material. They have done some truly epic things with weapons. Blundergat, acid gat, tomahawk, golden spork, sword, reborn sword, APOTHICAN SERVANT... In my opinion Blundell does work and I like the gameplay. It hasn't been a full 2 months since BO3 dropped and I doubt they wanted all of SOE's secrets to be revealed just yet, so I think we should all quit complaining and just search/wait.

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i feel like this one of their decisions to 'throw us off' that kinda backfired.

like if they meant for the WW in SoE to only be upgradeable by getting something from another map or even from the LAST dlc map we get this season, it seems like they are saying, 'here's your reward for sticking with us, now go back and play a map you've already got tired of.'

i really hope this isn't the case, 'cuz once shadows of evil is old, I can't see many people going back later just to use an upgraded WW. 

starting to think this is the EE blundell said we would never find.

 

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83457    263

Blundell is the little easter egg guy, no?

He basically said the the 'lil arnie' upgrade was the 'unfindable' one. 

1. GQ found it easily because of 360's simpler graphics (her words). On xbone, that stuff is harder to pick out.

2. He would not be the 'WW upgrade' guy, as that is basic game function, not easter eggs.

To the best of my understanding.

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Ragdo11706    363

I don't give a F**K who DF is, I really don't understand why everyone thinks he's some kind of programming/reverse engineering GOD. Everyone believes everything he says, as soon as he says it. He's obviously well educated & knows a hell of a lot more than I do, & I'm not hating on the guy either.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. In my honest opinion, as long as I've been playing Zombies, since W@W. I truly believe this is the "First" time they've made it where we can actually "Fail", to the point where we have to restart and do it again. If not fail then the possibility of it only being able to be obtained on an "Elemental" Round. This would explain why the "Cocoon" Location is turned off during a regular Round. For F**K sake it even says in the Coding "Round in Progress elemental_parasite lightning_wasp etc... Etc.... Round End_Cocoon Location OFF". Another thing I keep seeing is "World" so does that suggest the possibility that we have to be in the Noire Mode. I know for a fact that has a beginning & an end point.

More Coding *

take_sword power_on zmzod_idgun_quest remove_idgun_from_box second_idgun_time idgun_cocoon p7_zm_zod_margwa_heart

heart_pickup vox_idgun_upgrade_ready idgun_cocoon_point p7_zm_zod_cocoon idgun_cocoon_off wasp_round_in_progress parasite_round_fx parasite_round_ring_fx zm_wasp_round_visionset lightning_wasp_spawn )zombie/fx_parasite_spawn_buildup_zod_zmb zombie_wasp_spawner parasite_over later_round_wasp_spawners spawner_bo3_parasite_enemy_tool vox_zmba_event_waspstart_0 wasp_location zm_wasp_open_spawning parasite_start zmb_wasp_round_start wasp_spawn wasp_combat scr_wasp_health_walk_multiplier %zombie_wasp_spawn_init -> Spawned =

%zombie/fx_idgun_cocoon_explo_zod_zmb

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In all fairness he does know what he is talking about. He is a well respected guy who does all that datamining stuff, not even for the purpose of whatever everyone else does it for but because he knows that this stuff is frustrating. He is genuinely a respectable guy and you can even tell the fear he had when writing his findings, especially since he knows what he is looking for. I believe him simply because I actually read through what he said and applied it to what I was seeing and stuff. He even says there is the slimmest chance it exists as well, although he does not wish to participate in looking for it anymore.

On the subject of it still being there, lightning wasp could mean zapping them in beast mode. What I do not understand is that we are able to find sound files in the files yet not what they are linked to and what triggers them. That would resolve so much of this yet somehow it can't be done.

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83457    263

Thanks for that, Ragdo.

Hmmm. Wasp and parasite are 2 different things? Check for ticks on your character? The flying things are not like any real parasite. So what's the 'parasite'?

On point: you can fail the Trip Mine upgrades for the rest of the game. Or take the wrong version perhaps? Both types needed?

The 'master pod' graphic certainly seems to be large enough for the AS.

---

Still open avenues:

We can hardly read any keeper language. The 'command' reticule symbols brackets the Keeper writing on the beast doors. So we are commanded, from start, but nobody knows what. Nobody seems to be trying to figure this language out.

The red circles have keeper 'instructions' on them that aren't clearly saying 'ovum steps only', it looks like it is showing dual use. I'll post some attempted translations in the other thread.

Also, the red circles light up, after pap, whether or not the sword is made. I can get behind the idea that it points you to the sword upgrade except: it goes off if you shoot a nonpap'd gun in it. It goes off if you shoot a pap'd gun in it and then step out. It stays on if you go to your character's circle and shoot on and around it with a pap'd gun. It goes off on critter rounds and when a margwa spawns in, but I've had them come back on after he is dead. Surely this is something besides a glitch? The embers glow symbols, like the pap run-walls.

We have the sword counter of unknown purpose.

We have upgrade voice cues. I'm working on the theory that it tells you what you next need to do. So if you've done parts of the upgrade correctly, then it will trigger a cue telling you only the next step of the upgrade. Is anyone getting more than one upgrade cue per game?

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Ragdo11706    363

@Nightmare Voyager I know he knows his stuff, I never said he didn't. I actually stated its obvious he's well educated & knows a hell of a lot more than I do. With that being said you can even see in the Coding I posdted above you, the Cocoon turns "Off". If he actually got into the .gsc file that tells you step by step & it stated the "Cocoon" was disabled/un-obtainable. We wouldn't even be having this conversation.

____

@83457 I agree the "Keepers" language is something of "High Interest". However they gave us nothing to go on. We have no idea where to even begin in deciphering what those Symbols actually mean. 

You want yo know why I think this is. Because in my humble opinion, this is the language that actually matters, pertaining to upgrading the A.S.

Why, because I think we will eventually receive the "Cocoon" from a "Keeper". 

I've noticed the Symbols inside the rings refer to "Keeper" language. As for the "Embers" you see floatingu p off them. What your actually seeing are the "Keeper" symbols themselves. I'm not sure how this looks on the 360, but on Xbone it's very clear. It's similar to when your doing a ritual and go inside one of the flames that spawn the Keepers. Where you can see their symbols floating around you.

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