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So let me set the scene. I'm on round 32 after using one of my 2 perkaholics. No downs up to this point, running trains downstairs. I've got the Ray gun for margwas, the wonder weapon, and the vesper for instakills. I'm doing awesome but I'm starting to lose ammo In the apothicon, so rather than just getting blast furnace on the vesper (which I should have done, don't get me wrong) I go and try to trade out the wonder weapon from the box.

 

Fast forward to round 35. I've accidentally ended the round a few times. I've farmed every single pod in hopes of a max ammo. I spent 60 THOUSAND in three rounds on the box. Still no wonder weapon. So I make a mistake while running a train in the rift, turn at the wrong moment, zombie breaks my shield then I get 6-tapped and go down. First down round 35. Not horrible. But I still have no wonder weapon. So I inevitably get trapped trying to get jug after downing mid round, and there goes my flawless game.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the wonder weapon has become a panic weapon at the higher rounds, a shotgun or the Ray gun is necessary for taking out the margwa in any reasonable amount of time, and you have to use a weapon with blast furnace (the best augment for training IMO) or the traps to actually kill the zombies. It's just unfortunate what's happened because of the patch to the wonder weapon, and the map in general, and I wanted to put up a thread to see who agrees or disagrees and why.

 

So have at it. Am I being a bit too uppity about it? (Or more than a bit) or am in the majority here?

Edited by shirtlesservice

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Rinthis    0

I think that using the wonder weapon strictly as a panic weapon is fine if you just use the krm with blast furnace,  i always have alchemical antithesis ready as well so i don't usually have any ammo issues.

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DrVonstool    62

I honestly don't think you should beat yourself up at all! You made it to a very high round and you did it flawlessly! Now, I know you must be upset because you must have some type of goal you want to reach but it's just not worth being too beat up about. As for the wonder weapon and this "patch" you speak of (regarding the upgrade, right?), I'd just like to say that although the weapon has a low amount of ammo it still is a most flawless weapon that must be used wisely. Whenever I play, I always use my Widow-nades cooperatively with my Mar-Astagua. This allows for me to constantly restock on Widow-nades and destroy hordes flawlessly. With that being said, I sense that the problem is not the weapon itself or what it does but that the ammo is too low. I completely agree that sometimes the ammo runs out before I can properly restock with a Max of some sort. However, there is still hope. The possibility of this Wonder Weapon being upgrade-able is still prevalent and not yet lost in, what I'll call, the Tranzit Abyss. So, if all goes according to plan, by this time next year my Mar-Astagua will forever be named Mar-Astagua Arbgwaoth!

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Ragdo11706    363

I agree, however don't lose all hope just yet. After playing a bit of DOA II & getting to Round 31. I noticed from time to time I'd get a particularly interesting drop. 

 

None other than our beloved, Arbgwaoth Red portal. Now this has got to be some kind of inclination that there is in fact some way for this to be upgraded. 

 

Why would Treyarch go through all the trouble of patching the "Glitch" that made this possible. Yet not fix the color of the animation in DOA. It just doesn't make sense to me.

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Chopper    188

I say glitch out the Margwa and 'enjoy' the game again.

 

So as a solo player you have to spend an hour getting everything done (my fastest time is 55 minutes) and during that have messed around with the game mechanics to not have a Margwa spawn in again.

 

Great job Treyarch.  I love the map once I'm setup, but an hour is ridiculous.  And that's me knowing where everything is and the quickest way to do it.

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15 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I say glitch out the Margwa and 'enjoy' the game again.

I didn't even know that was possible. I knew it could be done with the Spaceman and the Panzer but not the Margwa. I doubt I would bother doing it though because the map is considerably easy as is. I am not even that fussed about upgrading the WW because getting to 100 would be relatively simple with the current loadout available anyway.

 

@shirtlesservice Welcome to zombies. In my, say... 500+ attempts at getting to 110+ on Origins I had this same thing happen to me on at least 3/4 of those games. Would go down to the crazy place to switch my Ice Staff for the Wind and would end up dying somehow on the way there or back. It's all part of the experience and I would like to think we learn from these mistakes. Not always, but sometimes.

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I have nothing wrong with the map, in fact I think it is my favourite one. That isn't me speaking because it is new, it truly has all the features in that I enjoyed in zombies. (Yes the rituals are something I enjoy, I can do them easily though they just seem like a fun challenge.)

Edited by Nightmare Voyager

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Chopper    188
29 minutes ago, DeathBringerZen said:

I didn't even know that was possible. I knew it could be done with the Spaceman and the Panzer but not the Margwa. I doubt I would bother doing it though because the map is considerably easy as is. I am not even that fussed about upgrading the WW because getting to 100 would be relatively simple with the current loadout available anyway.

Removing him doesn't change the difficulty tbh, more the irritability.  He's just a pain in the arse to deal with, and him being there removes some of the best spots in the game.  All he does is slow the rounds down once you know how to deal with him.

 

I don't care about the WW upgrade either, sure it would be nice to have more ammo but with the sword too it's not necessary unless you want to go to insane rounds or camp somewhere to round 100. 

 

I just don't understand Treyarch's mindset anymore, and have noticed more and more arrogance recently from their team.  Talking about EE's that will never be solved from WAW, basically saying haha we are better than you are.

 

My 2 favourite maps probably are Die Rise and SOE now, simply because once setup and running there's nowhere else in zombies as fun to run as these 2 maps.  And Treyarch screwed both of them up, for no real apparent reason.

 

I am believing more and more than someone is over there on a power trip and have been pissed off by a high round player somewhere and are making petty changes which only really affect those people.  On Die Rise it was patching the sliquid gun to make crawlers over round 100 plus the added splashes creating puddles everywhere and now it's the WW on SOE.

 

The Die Rise crawlers in particular affected only a tiny group of players, and had no harm to anyone else.  What was the point?

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35 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I am believing more and more than someone is over there on a power trip and have been pissed off by a high round player somewhere and are making petty changes which only really affect those people.  On Die Rise it was patching the sliquid gun to make crawlers over round 100 plus the added splashes creating puddles everywhere and now it's the WW on SOE.

 

The Die Rise crawlers in particular affected only a tiny group of players, and had no harm to anyone else.  What was the point?

It's funny because I was talking about Die Rise the other day with a friend and we were both questioning why they would nerf the WW from 100 without the map offering a viable alternative to using the WW, like traps. You could be onto something about the 'power trip' thing. I used to think maybe it was Activisions way of trying to reduce longer traffic on the servers but then you look at other maps and think, well why not nerf them?

 

I don't think getting beyond 100 without the upgraded WW on SoE would be too hard due to the traps but I absolutely agree that the Margwa's and lack of packed WW means they have limited the playing areas for the map. This was one of the reasons I hated MotD. Great fun setting up on Mob but then you are forced into one area, namely the canteen and that area just bores the tears out of me for training. The Margwa's I tend to just leave when they spawn in and let them run with my trains until close to the end of the round then I finish them off. It's a burden for sure but one I have gotten used to now. I just wish the map had more to offer in terms of proper high round training spots over decent(ish) spots to train for low to mid rounds co-op games.

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30 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Removing him doesn't change the difficulty tbh, more the irritability.  He's just a pain in the arse to deal with, and him being there removes some of the best spots in the game.  All he does is slow the rounds down once you know how to deal with him.

 

I don't care about the WW upgrade either, sure it would be nice to have more ammo but with the sword too it's not necessary unless you want to go to insane rounds or camp somewhere to round 100. 

 

I just don't understand Treyarch's mindset anymore, and have noticed more and more arrogance recently from their team.  Talking about EE's that will never be solved from WAW, basically saying haha we are better than you are.

 

My 2 favourite maps probably are Die Rise and SOE now, simply because once setup and running there's nowhere else in zombies as fun to run as these 2 maps.  And Treyarch screwed both of them up, for no real apparent reason.

 

I am believing more and more than someone is over there on a power trip and have been pissed off by a high round player somewhere and are making petty changes which only really affect those people.  On Die Rise it was patching the sliquid gun to make crawlers over round 100 plus the added splashes creating puddles everywhere and now it's the WW on SOE.

 

The Die Rise crawlers in particular affected only a tiny group of players, and had no harm to anyone else.  What was the point?

It is very weird what they do patch. They seem to view stuff that they might consider OP the priority when patching, over, say, stuff that actually needs fixing. Like the Sliq being able to be taken by all players (will they ever learn?) which they patched after a day, or the randomly limiting the damage to round 100 like you said, both things they decided to patch before, say, fixing the broken death barriers in the slides which still exist to this day I believe. They also increased the recoil stupidly on the LMGs on BO2 for some unknown reason, I mean really? Of all the things you could do you see that as the priority to patch Treyarch? They do certainly have bizarre logic at times.

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TimelordAlex    52
31 minutes ago, steviewonder87 said:

It is very weird what they do patch. They seem to view stuff that they might consider OP the priority when patching, over, say, stuff that actually needs fixing. Like the Sliq being able to be taken by all players (will they ever learn?) which they patched after a day, or the randomly limiting the damage to round 100 like you said, both things they decided to patch before, say, fixing the broken death barriers in the slides which still exist to this day I believe. They also increased the recoil stupidly on the LMGs on BO2 for some unknown reason, I mean really? Of all the things you could do you see that as the priority to patch Treyarch? They do certainly have bizarre logic at times.

This, i remember when Die Rise first came out on X360, it had so many issues, and we had the cool glitch where everyone could get the Sliquifier, they patched that the same day - a hotfix 5/6 hours after the DLC came out, but in terms of the constant deaths we were receiving in the elevator shaft and the slide, they didn't bother to 'fix' till MOTD came out and at that point no-one wanted to go back and play Die Rise, and yes they're still not really safe today. The 100 round damage thing i think they did after a few weeks. The recoil on the LMGs was for MP, but for whatever reason thought it was a good idea to add it to zombies as well - which resulted in the HAMR being trash imo as if the BO2 box didnt have enough crappy guns.

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20 minutes ago, TimelordAlex said:

This, i remember when Die Rise first came out on X360, it had so many issues, and we had the cool glitch where everyone could get the Sliquifier, they patched that the same day - a hotfix 5/6 hours after the DLC came out, but in terms of the constant deaths we were receiving in the elevator shaft and the slide, they didn't bother to 'fix' till MOTD came out and at that point no-one wanted to go back and play Die Rise, and yes they're still not really safe today. The 100 round damage thing i think they did after a few weeks. The recoil on the LMGs was for MP, but for whatever reason thought it was a good idea to add it to zombies as well - which resulted in the HAMR being trash imo as if the BO2 box didnt have enough crappy guns.

Or the apparent 'bug' where the SMR has MORE spread when adsing, which is not in MP, making it worse than useless. As if it wasn't bad enough in zombies already. Sometimes I do think they just like to toy with us, I mean I added the Sliq to my map, and one of the first things we made sure was working was that only one player could take it from the bench, does a company like Treyarch really overlook these things? I mean the exact same bug has appeared in all three Black Ops games in zombies lol. They never patched it on Moon (thank God) but patched the others almost instantly after release, I honestly am starting to think they just like to fuck with us.

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TimelordAlex    52

I am genuinely surprised they didnt patch the 2 hacker or no air glitch, though im damn glad they didnt as they are fun to do and makes the map less tedious when you dont need a mask.

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83457    263

On Die Rise: 360 version was patched regarding the death slide. Unless there were others that i missed. Both the small slide and the large elevator shaft don't kill you anymore. The elevator shaft drops move really slowly now, which is fine.

 

I rarely use the small slide, so maybe I'm mistaken, but the few times that I've used it, it was safe. The shafts were definitely fixed.

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DrVonstool    62

The idea that someone within the developers circle is manipulating that game to ensure that some people can't reach the pinnacle rounds is something of a 50/50 concern. On one hand, you could say that there is in fact a power trip occurring where they really want to stop the 100 rounds and above (Hence the zombies animation changes and patching of certain upgrade-ables) and yet on the other hand you could just have people that sincerely have a gripe with people who run in circles with an upgrade and can sling passed 40 or so rounds by doing so all for the sake of a leaderboard "Status". It is completely possible to say that these developers that revert "enhancements" that once made you strong are simply looking out for the quality of the game. As in, those of you who masterbate to your solo leaderboard rankings need to start masterbating when you reach high rounds with randoms. It truly is more of an accomplishment if you can achieve a solid round 40 without one player leaving out of anger or frustration. In my mind, the time of "One down; leave" should be passed considering the ranking system doesn't give two fucks about your downs! This was the "Nail in the coffin" for the dreaded "No mic? Rage quit". My reasoning behind this is the fact that you are rewarded for revives, and are rewarded for staying as long as you can. For me, the entertainment part of this "Game" is the act of succeeding or failing with others, not just by yourself. Of course, if you have a personal best that you want to rise above, no one can tell you otherwise. However, to have the Gorgon-desire to want to play until your father passes into his next life is absurd and at that point should be considered an addiction, less than entertainment.

 

Back to the wonder weapon and the map itself, I think this map is Evil Dead meets Aliens meets CoDZ. The one thing that it needs to be a perfect map is Bruce Campbell. He should've been a character because the demonic possession and diddly-daddling in books of Satanism is right up his alley. Instead we have Jeff Goldblum, mister Jeff Golblu-man group himself. The choice of actors, choice of characteristics, choice of personality, choice of time-considerate wording makes this map all the more valuable. "I'm happily married... I've got a wife that complains about how much I drink, how much I smoke, how much I wanna fuck, I swear I've got an ulcer the size of Stanton-fucking Island." -Jackie V. These characters make up for Tranzit's confusing quarrel in any reality.

The map itself and the Margwas are all aesthetics to make the map feel real. To bring true fear into you when you hear the spawning sounds of a Cerbertipus. "Three heads like Cerberus! Tentacles like an Octopus... OOOH.... CERBETIPUS!" Quotes like this in correlation with the map and the demons that haunt your every turn is what makes Shadows of Evil a genius return to something more or less different. The Margwas are no trouble for an experienced player, the rituals are easier than dusting off your collection of 80's thrash metal. Getting the pack-a-punch open is like having sex with a girl that you have no chance of having sex with, it's a miracle to the virgin eye. The fact that we have a purpose in upgrading twice is even more of a push to want to upgrade and complete the rituals. Of course in multiplayer, things get a little hairy. People pick up pieces and have no clue what to do with them. They die and drop the piece in a part of the map that is unheard of until round 15, when you have Jugg, the shield, and time enough to search for the poor sods item, and even then the troubles of actually completing the ritual on four player is much more difficult and time consuming endeavoring solo. Which is why you have to pick and choose your battles. Wisely choose the time to activate a ritual. The perfect time during a 4-player co-op session is during the "dog" round or "Manifestation" round. If this round is not easy for you then you must go solo until you have a grasp of the general concepts portrayed in the map. I digress, during this round, players should have weapons capable of at least the bare minimum of defense, allowing you or one other player to take as much time during this round to complete the ritual. As always, you can save a flying-fuck or a screaming-testicle before finishing the round in order to complete your ritual.

Remember, the point of the game is to enjoy the fuck-ups and successes of your gameplay. If you want, I can compare the entertainment of this game to drugs. If you smoke a lot, and get high everyday, it's more than likely that you will get bored of the drug or your immune system will develop a tolerance to the drug making the drug obsolete. (At least until you get off the stuff for a week and hop back on it, boy is it better then.) For the game, if you win too much and are reluctant to suffer defeat in any case, you will become bored of the game and your dopamine count will drop considerably because you can ony let yourself win. In other words, "Sun Tzu said; If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Know yourself and love yourself but also allow yourself to suffer defeat in order to understand your enemy. Plus, it's just a game. Sun Tzu was actually talking about the Art of War, not the Art of Training.

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TimelordAlex    52
On 11/27/2015, 7:49:45, 83457 said:

On Die Rise: 360 version was patched regarding the death slide. Unless there were others that i missed. Both the small slide and the large elevator shaft don't kill you anymore. The elevator shaft drops move really slowly now, which is fine.

 

I rarely use the small slide, so maybe I'm mistaken, but the few times that I've used it, it was safe. The shafts were definitely fixed.

the slide to get down to the first box spawn/M16 was not really fixed, they just slowed you down which made it even easier to go down, i did die a lot more when it was faster, but making it slower did not fix the issue. The main issue i had with Die Rise is you were forced to use the slide and elevators to get round the map, there was no other option, at least in Tranzit - the bus was not a necessity and tbh i hardly use it anyway, just teleported and run around.

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Rissole25    378
1 hour ago, TimelordAlex said:

the slide to get down to the first box spawn/M16 was not really fixed, they just slowed you down which made it even easier to go down, i did die a lot more when it was faster, but making it slower did not fix the issue.

One time when Who's Who activated I spawned half way down the slide and because it was slow and half way, I of course did not reach the ledge. It's what finally made me hate Who's Who on that map.

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TimelordAlex    52
Just now, Rissole25 said:

One time when Who's Who activated I spawned half way down the slide and because it was slow and half way, I of course did not reach the ledge. It's what finally made me hate Who's Who on that map.

A lot of people hate whos who but i dont get why, the perk itself was a good idea, but the map it was put on was shit for it, should've switched with TS on Tranzit

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Rissole25    378

Oh yeah definitely. Like Tombstone would be so much better on Die Rise because you have enough time to get to nearly everywhere on the map if you spawn up top and your Tombstone is downstairs. In TranZit not so much if you spawn in a completely different area.

And Who's Who would be way better on TranZit because you would spawn nearby your body, and the areas are more open! Definitely not suitable in Die Rises dodgy spawns and closed areas.

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Ragdo11706    363

Speaking of Die Rise, who remembers the Elevator shaft spawn control where the Galva Knuckles were. Man that shit was fun as F**k. How about when you could run around where the Trample Steam was & they didn't spawn from the Tower. Or when you could run in the little cafe for days with the Chicom CQB  equipped & the Sliquifier effect kept on "Chaining".

Now I understand why they patched all these problems. Because you could take serious advantage from them. As for the Round 100 crawler patch. I mean really Treyarch Really. It's shit like this, I will NEVER understand about Treyarch & Zombies.

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Hey everyone, sorry I haven't responded at all, I've been on break and I haven't even touched a computer in the past week.

 

But I'm back, and I want to respond to all of you, as best I can.

 

@Rinthis I personally find the vesper to be in a better spot for this on SoE, because it's in the rift and it's so easy to get to, but on The Giant I can see your point. It was just frustrating to have to use the weapon I used to use as the primary zombie killing tool as the panic weapon now.

@DrVonstool Thanks man I appreciate it, I just wanted to hit 50 on my main account, and this was a disappointing run. However, I too hold out hope that our amazing community will find the way to upgrade the weapon, and I'll do whatever I can to contribute to that :D

Also, I think the entertainment of the game, for me, is accomplishing whatever goal I put out for myself, whether it be 50, 100, or more so. The issue arises when something that is considered unfair (glitches, the problems on die rise, etc) create an "unfun" environment, and it feels like a player has been cheated. It's hard to do really well at a game, when you don't necessarily know all the rules to it.

@Ragdo11706 Good to know that the portal is available somewhere else too, just another glimmer of hope, maybe another clue of some sort?

Also, I do remember that spawn control, I saw relaxing get to round 100 in like 5 hours. That was RIDICULOUS.

@Chopper I would glitch it out, but it just feels a bid illegitimate. But I do agree with your point on the set up, its just too damn long, I think more of a reward for accomplishing it would lessen it's annoyance to me.

I really do enjoy the map as well, I just don't understand why Treyarch would go through the effort of making a map harder to play, and limiting the variance of play, through the removal of a weapon. UNLESS, there were a different way to obtain it.

@DeathBringerZen I feel for you my zombie-slaying friend. We do learn from the mistakes, it was just the circumstances of it that were so unfortunate for me, and that's what really irked me. Not that it happened, mistakes happen in the game, more that it was basically out of my control.

Also, the fact that they limited the playable area of the map by removing the PaP wonderweapon (and made the map slower to play, in my opinion) upsets me as well, and is one of the small negatives that adds to my complaints about the map.

@Nightmare Voyager I really enjoy the map too, the scene, the ambiance, I even enjoy how fast the zombies are and the general chaos that it can sometimes create, because it varies the gameplay. I think its just the tiny things that add up that make this map annoying to play on occasionally. Honestly, I'm just happy they didn't give us another pile of TranZit after waiting so long.

@steviewonder87 @TimelordAlex I agree, some things you think they would patch because they are overpowered or game breaking go unnoticed, while some of the things they have patched over the years have just been odd or detrimental to the gameplay as a whole. But overall though, I have never had too many complaints.

@Rissole25 Your comments were similar to what the 2 above were saying, I just wanted to say something different to you, in that I think your thoughts had more to do with overall design problems than things that were patched, which is a legitimate concern, just a different type of one. I haven't talked to one person yet that liked Who's Who as a perk, mostly due to how inconsistent it was.

 

Thank you all for responding guys, I didn't think my mild annoyance over screwing up would generate all this input. Personally I do like the map overall, and I just have a few complaints that contributed to this post. But for us wanting innovation without changing the game entirely, I think Treyarch did a pretty good job... Minus the hour long set up.

 

 

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TimelordAlex    52

People said they didnt like whos who as it gave them an extra down - which mattered in BO2, but imo, it was die rise that gave them the extra down.

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Ragdo11706    363

Haha the sorry ass places it always decided to Spawn you at. Every time I had it I would always spawn in where the entire group of zombies were.

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2 hours ago, TimelordAlex said:

People said they didnt like whos who as it gave them an extra down - which mattered in BO2, but imo, it was die rise that gave them the extra down.

I always thought that it would be good because it could save quick revive... The only problem is that it often spawned you in places where it was just impossible or too difficult to really train the zombies, and that made its effect worthless, especially because when you down in Who's Who mode, your game ends.

Edited by shirtlesservice

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3 hours ago, Ragdo11706 said:

Haha the sorry ass places it always decided to Spawn you at. Every time I had it I would always spawn in where the entire group of zombies were.

Or sometimes just in between the buildings, i.e. in thin air, where you are alive long enough to witness your descent to death (and doubling your downs count in the process). I don't think I've ever had as many map fatalities as I had on Die Rise, from the death shafts to just screwing up a dropdown falling into the abyss, so the last thing I need on that map is a perk that can actually kill you too...

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