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Simply Epic

WAW Character bios: are they canon?

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Simply Epic    2

Once Der RIese was released for World at War character bios were added for Demsey, Nikolai, Takeo and Richtofen. Now with the addition of Origins and generally much more information about the characters, these bios seem pretty inconsistent, e.g. Richtofen was known as the butcher during WW2, and that Nikolai played a big part in Russian politics.

 

Are the characters meant to go through world war one and two, and then encounter the zombies, but some kind of intervention forced an alternate timeline in which Tank, Takeo and Nikolai hunted down Richtofen in Northern France in WW1?

 

Just generally a bit confused on the origins of the storyline at this point. Radios on WAW act like it is the first cases of the zombie outbreak (in 1945)

 

Also I guess Takeo's face was never meant to be young like it is in WAW, but instead middleaged like in black ops 1.

 

Sorry for the bad formatting, just a past fan of the zombies story attempting to get up to date.

Edited by Simply Epic

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Matuzz    218

Yes but Origins characters are not the same as the original ones. They come from different universe.

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Simply Epic    2

Yes but Origins characters are not the same as the original ones. They come from different universe.

What caused the change in universe? Also why pick the same dudes but 20ish years earlier, surely that would just cause more problems (excluding Richtofen)

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Matuzz    218

Yes but Origins characters are not the same as the original ones. They come from different universe.

What caused the change in universe? Also why pick the same dudes but 20ish years earlier, surely that would just cause more problems (excluding Richtofen)

Well basically when the 115 Rockets hit the Earth a rift in time was created and after that things got weird. Everything was "simple" from NDU to Moon. The characters were captured by Group 935 during the war and made test subjects. That was the original universe. Now in a completely different univers the characters are battling in World at War they are the same characters but in a different reality and in a way not same. Not to mention they were some sort of templars in the middle ages too.

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Simply Epic    2

Yes but Origins characters are not the same as the original ones. They come from different universe.

What caused the change in universe? Also why pick the same dudes but 20ish years earlier, surely that would just cause more problems (excluding Richtofen)

Well basically when the 115 Rockets hit the Earth a rift in time was created and after that things got weird. Everything was "simple" from NDU to Moon. The characters were captured by Group 935 during the war and made test subjects. That was the original universe. Now in a completely different univers the characters are battling in World at War they are the same characters but in a different reality and in a way not same. Not to mention they were some sort of templars in the middle ages too.

I see the reason for the added complexity, but it basically alienates most players.

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Slade    270

Those bios pretty much became one big joke after BO1 was released.

You're telling me Stalin is supposedly afraid of Nikolai? Ты серьезно? 

3892341-0080245855-Putin.gif

The only one I can take serious is Takeo's. That's the only one that fits the character, and he even went as far as commenting about slaughtering his whole family in BO1.

 

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Guest   
Guest

I dont understand why the bios cant just be after the first world war?

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I think the bios are just cannon to the original timeline, which is an alternate timeline from the Origins ones. Though through the events of the BO1 maps I don't think the developers really started taking the bios into account. They were probably just there to serve as some sort of introduction/backstory to the O4 as these were completely new characters with pretty much no introduction in SNN.

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NaBrZHunter    491

Yes but Origins characters are not the same as the original ones. They come from different universe.

I am going to directly refute the Great Matuzz. ;) I say so because I have much respect for your work. 

The 'different universe' theory is not confirmed as of yet, either. Personally, I still believe that they are the same characters. But yes, in answer to the original question, they are still Canon. Anything stated by Treyarch directly in the form of audio, video, image, or text is Canon. The only things that are not Canon are our own theories, speculations, or connections we make to other non-Treyarch science, or occult literary fiction. 

You may notice I am deeply devoted to differentiating between canon and theory. We had a big discussion on this on a past forum:

http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/index.php?/topic/178904-canon-in-the-zombies-storyline/&do=findComment&comment=1726792

Some theories to explain the bios are that they are, in no uncertain order:

a.) The ideas that Richtofen planted in his test subjects' minds'

b.) That the new four are from another universe, specifically, a 'paralell' universe

c.) They are all true accounts, with the NO4 being their younger selves, previous to those events, on a manipulated timeline following Maxis' victory at Resolution 1295

I am sure there are more which I may discuss in light of canon at some point in the future. Heheh. 

Edited by NaBrZHunter
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Guest   
Guest

I don't see why the bios can't happen after all of these events. After the Origins group finish fixing time, it make sense that they would have the fates that are shown in the bios just with them all having wiped memories from the experiences.

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Shooter    83

Those bios were made during WAW, before the developers had any idea the story behind Zombies would take off like it did. The story has gone in a much different direction since WAW, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those bios.

Sure, you could make them fit into the timeline, and the truth is you wouldn't have much trouble making them fit. But in the end they're really just not that important.

Plus, I wouldn't base any storyline theories off character bios from a time when the story wasn't even developed yet.

Edited by Shooter

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NaBrZHunter    491

Those bios were made during WAW, before the developers had any idea the story behind Zombies would take off like it did. The story has gone in a much different direction since WAW, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those bios.

Sure, you could make them fit into the timeline, and the truth is you wouldn't have much trouble making them fit. But in the end they're really just not that important.

Plus, I wouldn't base any storyline theories off character bios from a time when the story wasn't even developed yet.

That's actually not the case. Those bios emerged with the characters themselves, specifically (if I'm not mistaken) at Shi No Numa, at which point they obviously knew where they were going. In fact, they Verrückt was, at a stretch, the last map they made in which they did not know what they were going for. But even Verrückt and the events there involving the Marines were later tied into the story. Like-who was it, Houston?- said in this latest interview on Conversations with Creators, they began developing a story after fans misconstrued a warped texture in Nacht. World at War Nacht. If you stick to Canon, it remains clear that nothing has yet been scrapped, and the story has remained consistent, and has not gone in another direction. 

Edited by NaBrZHunter

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Shooter    83

The story from WAW was very basic, and the ideas were general and widespread: Group 935, Element 115, Richtofen, Maxis, Peter, Illuminati. They vaguely touched on a variety of things. The chance that they had the whole zombies story planned out as early as SNN is slim to none.

At the earliest, the story was fully developed between WAW and BO. They noticed that people were intrigued by the little background story on the WAW maps, and decided to expand greatly on it in BO.

Just look at the progression of the story in BO and BO2. We went from Group 935, 115, and teleportation, to a complex story involving Aether, Agartha, and the cycle among other things.

Like I said, I don't necessarily think these bios aren't canon, I just don't think they're that important to the storyline overall.

 

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InfestLithium    520

Why is it so hard to believe a parallel/alternate universe? We've dealt with time travel, purgatory, temporal displacement, all the shenanigans. And additionally, it's been supported indirectly by the developers through all the maps we've dealt with.

The ending of Black Ops 2 only opened the idea more so. I mean, Maxis going through Agartha/The Rift in Buried in order to save his daughter and allow the entire world to collapse? That's the end of that reality - the original timeline. The Earth was to cease to exist, and Maxis said it himself to the N4. Everyone was screwed.

Being said that, the only option left is to restore the world once again and prevent a disastrous future. Hence why we deal with our Origins crew - an alternate reality where each soldier crossed paths with similar interests and actually worked together to fend off the undead (which according to the original timeline could not have occurred). And if that's impossible to believe, look at the obvious: had this alternate reality been anything else, that would mean the Germans were victorious in WW1. We know that's not true. The original storyline kept close to OUR actual history...or, at least the conspiracies and events.

We know several universes and realities exist in Zombies. The firmly believe that it's all centralized in one linear time stream is just ignorance at its finest. Time bounces around in this game - that's what the developers wanted. The WaW bios gave us each soldier's history and background. That is still canon in the original timeline. In fact, it could still remain canon if we believe Origins was the true predecessor up until the zombie outbreak in the excavation site. Personally, I believe that (but the discussion is due for another thread).

Tl;dr: Bios are canon to an extent. Alternate universes are very much possible and evident. Consistency in time fluctuates in the story.

Edited by InfestLithium

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NaBrZHunter    491

Why is it so hard to believe a parallel/alternate universe? We've dealt with time travel, purgatory, temporal displacement, all the shenanigans. And additionally, it's been supported indirectly by the developers through all the maps we've dealt with.

The ending of Black Ops 2 only opened the idea more so. I mean, Maxis going through Agartha/The Rift in Buried in order to save his daughter and allow the entire world to collapse? That's the end of that reality - the original timeline. The Earth was to cease to exist, and Maxis said it himself to the N4. Everyone was screwed.

Being said that, the only option left is to restore the world once again and prevent a disastrous future. Hence why we deal with our Origins crew - an alternate reality where each soldier crossed paths with similar interests and actually worked together to fend off the undead (which according to the original timeline could not have occurred). And if that's impossible to believe, look at the obvious: had this alternate reality been anything else, that would mean the Germans were victorious in WW1. We know that's not true. The original storyline kept close to OUR actual history...or, at least the conspiracies and events.

We know several universes and realities exist in Zombies. The firmly believe that it's all centralized in one linear time stream is just ignorance at its finest. Time bounces around in this game - that's what the developers wanted. The WaW bios gave us each soldier's history and background. That is still canon in the original timeline. In fact, it could still remain canon if we believe Origins was the true predecessor up until the zombie outbreak in the excavation site. Personally, I believe that (but the discussion is due for another thread).

Tl;dr: Bios are canon to an extent. Alternate universes are very much possible and evident. Consistency in time fluctuates in the story.

Agreed, this is not a single linear time stream, but it is, IMHO, a single universe, with links to another dimension. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm never in an 'I'm right, you're wrong' stance unless someone were to straight up refute canon, such as saying 935 was disassociated with Nazi Germany. 

However, I do not believe that another "Dimension" equals another and "Paralell" universe. I believe it is possible for this to all carry on in our world; the same it has always been in. Now if there is a Canon source somewhere that specifically states that a parallel universe does exist, I have missed it up until now. But all I am aware of is theories based on pan-dimensional travel, time travel, afterlife 'purging' loops, and teleportation. 

Different dimensions carry themselves at different rates of time, I believe, much like the way Earth's trek around the sun compares to Jupiter's, without equal, apparent "time" passage. On that same note, as far as I know, there is not yet any indication that time travel into the past is possible (I know, that seems preposterous, but I believe Canon supports it.)

What occurred following Origins was not, I believe, time travel, but actually did occur before our original story, influenced by the knowledge of what occurs in the future. And what Maxis said was an implication, not an explanation of how or why.

I'm working on a potentially large project right now, and a thread for this subject will probably be a part of it. I look forward to continuing this discussion. 

Edited by NaBrZHunter
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