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Guest BlindBusDrivr

The CIA recommissioned Verruckt as their own base

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Hey guys, lately I have been discovering evidence that the Verruckt you teleport to at Kino, is not the one we think of.

(btw I'd like to thank aegisknight for most of the pics)

It is actual a CIA base, which is literally just a refurnished Verruckt!

Let's start with the evidence:

VerrucktChair.jpg

The one we teleport to

185px-Verruckt_Torture_Chair.jpg

The one from actual Verruckt.

Now I'm going to start with these.

What's similar?

-Well, the room dimensions are the same.

-There's a little rolling table with a metal tray next to the chair

-There's the cabinets

-The wall circuits

-the cable and floor pattern(even though you can't really see it it's the same)

-the vent at the top people like to toss grenade through :lol:

-and also the window and door placement, I'll get deeper into this in a moment.

So, what's different?

Well two big things off the top of my head, the chair is different and so are the lights. (Also note the larger tiles) They resemble a set up we know just as well from black ops:

spinter1.png

No longer is it the skinny leaned back dentist chair, it is the kind mason is in. And the single lamp are gone and it's a 5 light interrogation spotlight.

Also in this room, the windows are covered by black window panes, which seems similar to the one way screens we see on Crime shows a lot.

Now the other thing, is the Juggernog room:

IMG_0406.jpg

Where this would be at Verruckt, we find this in the one we teleport to:

5-3.jpg

The black screen again, and Jugger nog is no longer there, but a water cooler. 60s style...

Now there's also an extra room which is completely different and a whole new addition.

What would be right here on the map:

IMG_04019.jpg

Has been renovated into this:

1-6.jpg

Also take note of the terminals in the background, nothing like that it at Verruckt, but it is somewhere else familiar:

spinter1.png

So what have we got so far?

Well what was the old dentist room, now has a new chair, with a spotlight, and new steel tiles.

And nice fancy doors like in the revelations mission

444958984.jpg

And in where there was nothing at the original verruckt, we now have a new chair, with curtains, and terminals, spotlights, and a failed experiment...

And now perhaps one of the biggest things pointing to this being a refurnished CIA facility, is in the juggernog room, across from the water cooler.

We see this steel metal door here:

6-3.jpg

Look familiar?

black-ops-torture-room.jpg

Other evidence of the CIA and other US organizations knowing of Verruckt after Peter? Check out the inbox's of Vannevar Bush and Robert Oppenheimer on the Terminal.

So in conclusion, I think there is plenty of supporting evidence in this that the CIA refurnished Verruckt as a safe house in Berlin, after the War.

Hope you guys enjoyed.

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Guest Zombieofthedead   
Guest Zombieofthedead

But that doesn't make sense. For one, the area is VASTLY different from verruckt. Even if they did modify it, it would still be basically the same. Other than maybe the computer room, the hallways are not at all the same as verruckt.

Secondly, why just randomly in Berlin? Makes no sense.

Similarities are similarities, but this is kind of out there.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

But that doesn't make sense. For one, the area is VASTLY different from verruckt. Even if they did modify it, it would still be basically the same. Other than maybe the computer room, the hallways are not at all the same as verruckt.

Secondly, why just randomly in Berlin? Makes no sense.

Similarities are similarities, but this is kind of out there.

Vastly different? you must be mistaken. They changed the chairs and lamps and stuff but the basic building structure remained, that's undeniable.

And it's not going to be exact, because it's been renovated.

And similarities are similarities, and when there's this many presented in this way it must mean something.

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Guest Zombieofthedead   
Guest Zombieofthedead

Vastly different? you must be mistaken. They changed the chairs and lamps and stuff but the basic building structure remained, that's undeniable.

And it's not going to be exact, because it's been renovated.

And similarities are similarities, and when there's this many presented in this way it must mean something.

It IS vastly different. The structure of the rooms ARE different, the hallways of the mission are ENTIRELY different from verruckt.

Sure, it's renovated. But looking at kino's, it wasn't renovated THAT much.

The similarities are not that great.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Vastly different? you must be mistaken. They changed the chairs and lamps and stuff but the basic building structure remained, that's undeniable.

And it's not going to be exact, because it's been renovated.

And similarities are similarities, and when there's this many presented in this way it must mean something.

It IS vastly different. The structure of the rooms ARE different, the hallways of the mission are ENTIRELY different from verruckt.

Sure, it's renovated. But looking at kino's, it wasn't renovated THAT much.

The similarities are not that great.

Ok I'm clarifying this for EVERYONE:

I am NOT implying that Verruckt is the CIA facility in Revelations.

It is a CIA SAFEHOUSE

I used Revelation as an EXAMPLE of a CIA FACILITY.

I'm not saying they're the same.

I'm saying that verruckt is now an entirely separate CIA safe house, because they found it's ruins and renovated it in to one of their bases.

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Guest Zombieofthedead   
Guest Zombieofthedead

Okay, that makes more sense.

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Guest nayrc   
Guest nayrc

I'm saying that verruckt is now an entirely separate CIA safe house, because they found it's ruins and renovated it in to one of their bases.

we also know that the CIA found verrukt via terminal so it is a possible theory as it has been about 20 years since we have been to verrukt

but when we teleport in the kino teleporter we seem to be to time travel anyway so that last bit isnt really relevant.

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Guest Nemesis_96   
Guest Nemesis_96

I'm saying that verruckt is now an entirely separate CIA safe house, because they found it's ruins and renovated it in to one of their bases.

we also know that the CIA found verrukt via terminal so it is a possible theory as it has been about 20 years since we have been to verrukt

but when we teleport in the kino teleporter we seem to be to time travel anyway so that last bit isnt really relevant.

yeah, I agree with Nayrc. It's possible that from infiltrating Verruckt, they stole the designs to use for themselves, which is why they are similar, but I doubt that the CIA ever had full control over Verruckt. After all, why would they want to?

Also, isn't it more likely Treyarch re-used the old stuff and updated it to save time when map making?

I think we should look more towards what did the CIA actually retrieve from Verruckt? Five does tell us a bit: They got the Ray Gun, Winter's Howl and possibly the Thundergun. I would be interested to know where that technology and other stuff they stole has gone.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

I'm saying that verruckt is now an entirely separate CIA safe house, because they found it's ruins and renovated it in to one of their bases.

we also know that the CIA found verrukt via terminal so it is a possible theory as it has been about 20 years since we have been to verrukt

but when we teleport in the kino teleporter we seem to be to time travel anyway so that last bit isnt really relevant.

yeah, I agree with Nayrc. It's possible that from infiltrating Verruckt, they stole the designs to use for themselves, which is why they are similar, but I doubt that the CIA ever had full control over Verruckt. After all, why would they want to?

Also, isn't it more likely Treyarch re-used the old stuff and updated it to save time when map making?

I think we should look more towards what did the CIA actually retrieve from Verruckt? Five does tell us a bit: They got the Ray Gun, Winter's Howl and possibly the Thundergun. I would be interested to know where that technology and other stuff they stole has gone.

Well you see, I think that they wanted Verruckt because it is in Berlin, Germany, and they needed a safe house there. For two reasons I believe. One, when they discovered Kino Der Toten and began shipping over the stuff to the Pentagon (That's where most of it came from, there's much evidence of that) and also possibly for MK ULTRA, the CIA mind control program.

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Guest Nemesis_96   
Guest Nemesis_96

Hmm, I do agree with that, they definitely wanted Verruckt, all I'm saying is they ddin't get actually get it, Peter got rumbled before they could do so.

That's an interesting thing you've got there on MK ULTRA, I've not heard of that yet. You should totally do a thread on it!

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Hmm, I do agree with that, they definitely wanted Verruckt, all I'm saying is they ddin't get actually get it, Peter got rumbled before they could do so.

That's an interesting thing you've got there on MK ULTRA, I've not heard of that yet. You should totally do a thread on it!

I've done some theories on it before.

I guess I should do them again because I wrote those before Moon was released.

But they did get Verruckt, because of Peter. After he escaped and the Marines died, they are able to track down the location and found the facility, I also recall it was on their side of the Berlin Wall.

So after the war them and the Russians were looking for the Group 935 bases. The Russians got Der Riese, we know this because a standoff is mentioned in the WMD intel. you should read it, it's an interesting bit about GK.

But as I was saying they traced back their intel and finally found Verruckt. Finishing off whatever zombies remained they took in any evidence they could find of the team and Peter. But little remained and it was sent back to storage at Five or Area 51 probably, and the refurnished Verruckt as a safe house of theirs to be used in transporting things from Kino to the Pentagon, as well as perhaps running a second MK ULTRA-like operation in Berlin.

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Guest Shoreyo   
Guest Shoreyo

Like most things in zombies they're reusing campaign skins, i.e. just like clarke as the theif, and in WaW demspey being a reused model of polonsky, but this doesn't mean he is polonsky! Likewise we shouldn't jump to the conclusion clarke is the theif or this is the CIA.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Like most things in zombies they're reusing campaign skins, i.e. just like clarke as the theif, and in WaW demspey being a reused model of polonsky, but this doesn't mean he is polonsky! Likewise we shouldn't jump to the conclusion clarke is the theif or this is the CIA.

But that doesn't make sense. If the wanted it to be Verruckt, why wouldn't they just make it Verruckt? If they wanted it to be a CIA building, why not just copy one directly without the mixture?

This is different. The dimension line up EXACTLY with Verruckts, but yet the parts that aren't in the structure have changed to the stuff in the government's facilities.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

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Guest aegisknight   
Guest aegisknight

My theory has been hijacked! Even used my screenshots :(

well, I may as well provide more evidence.

IMG_0403.jpg

Spawn, its got lots of things going on.

2-6.jpg

From the video, you're right. The blood stains aren't the same. However,

22-1.jpg

IMG_04032.jpg

The blood stains (and the floor in general) are rendered with different tiles, but someone was sure to be very careful in putting the stains in the exact same places. The large splatter/footprint area is slightly different, but the other two spots I circled are exactly the same, despite the fact that they must have been rendered completely anew for the Kino version. You will also notice that the double-windows from Verruckt are the exact same dimension as the blacked out area from Kino.

So I looked around some more.

IMG_0404.jpg

3-4.jpg

The cabinets are newer, but in the same spot and of the same style. Interestingly, the power boxes on the wall are all of a newer design, but are located in the exact same spots. Someone took their time re-rendering and updating this scene. The wire coming out of the power box snakes around a slightly different path, but in both cases it loops around the room before attaching to the chair mechanism.

4-4.jpg

IMG_0405.jpg

But is it the same room?

overlay1.jpg

I took screenshots as close to the same spot as I could, and did a hard light overlay. Things match up, if not, its pretty damn close. But the best comparisons are in the juggernog room. Lets check it out:

IMG_0406.jpg

5-3.jpg

Bookshelves and window in the exact same spots, books strewn about the floor in the same fashion. However, the wall textures and floors are different. On the right wall, you can see a T pipe configuration completely unchanged between the two areas. Strangest, though:

6-3.jpg

Not the door itself, that lines up pretty closely to the original:

IMG_0408.jpg

If you reconstruct the wall anyway (the file cabinet wall is unrendered, you cannot see it from where you can actually access anyway). The fact that this door even exists, rendered in high detail, means we were meant to be able to see this room. No, what is more important is just to the left. The radiator is missing, and the pipe itself has moved, as if during a renovation process.

Between these two rooms, the only functional changes include a switch in the first room of a locker into a cabinet, the movement of this pipe, and the update of all of the present equipment (from the chair to the doors to the surgical equipment to the power boxes to the tiles on the floor).

What of the other room?

1-6.jpg

Well, not much. There is a blood stain on the floor, but it is not rendered as closely, or with as much detail, as the comparisons from the first room. There is a new wall added, with equipment as well. The only thing I can confirm between the two is that the dimensions of these spaces is the same between the two maps:

IMG_04019.jpg

which isn't especially helpful

Now, I'll break down the most important parts: The rooms are 100% the exact same dimensions as on Verruckt. I spent many hours painstakingly drawing out every dimension of every room of this map foot by foot, there is no doubt in my mind that it is the same. All of the cabinetry is in the exact same positions in Verruckt as in FIVE, everything in that first room is exactly the same apart from the switching out of one locker for a cabinet, and complete texture update.

The second room has the exact same dimensions as the same place in Verruckt, apart from the new wall being added. The addition of the heavy steel door in the other room leads me to believe this area has been sectioned off either in a quarantine or as workspace for the staff, kept separate from the research subjects. The usage of a similar door in Mason's holding area suggests the latter.

But this is no comparison to the evidence presented by the last room. The collapsed bookcases, books on those cases, and books on the floor are completely unchanged from Verruckt. There is no way this is a coincidence or mistake, changing these things is simply too easy for a programmer to do.

Now, why are they at Verruckt? What experiments are they replicating? Well, I did some scouring of the terminal files earlier, and this is what I think:

The following is a summary of techniques developed by [REDACTED] under the

term "Psychic Driving."

STAGE 1:

Patients are to be "depatterned," which is defined as being reduced to a

vegetative state through a combination of high level electroconvulsive shock,

drug-induced sleep, and sensory isolation. When fully depatterned, patients

will be reduced to incontinence of urine and feces and will be incapable of

feeding themselves and will show an inability to state their name, location,

or date.

STAGE 2:

This is where "psychic driving" is introduced. The process consists of playing

to the patients hundreds of hours of audio loops via earphones,

specially-designed helmets, and/or speakers in the sensory isolation room.

For further details, see "A Study of Personality Change Due to Prolonged Repetition

of Verbal Signals" by [REDACTED].

The room has several power boxes wired together and then connecting to instrumentation at the chair; this would be the electroshock. There is no light other than the floods at the top; this is sensory deprivation. Drug induced sleep is possible as well, but I do not yet know the full use of the surgical implementations scattered about, they do not comfortably fit into this theory.

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Guest Shoreyo   
Guest Shoreyo

Like most things in zombies they're reusing campaign skins, i.e. just like clarke as the theif, and in WaW demspey being a reused model of polonsky, but this doesn't mean he is polonsky! Likewise we shouldn't jump to the conclusion clarke is the theif or this is the CIA.

But that doesn't make sense. If the wanted it to be Verruckt, why wouldn't they just make it Verruckt? If they wanted it to be a CIA building, why not just copy one directly without the mixture?

This is different. The dimension line up EXACTLY with Verruckts, but yet the parts that aren't in the structure have changed to the stuff in the government's facilities.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

I said its a scene of Verrkuct not-so-destroyed (before or after ww2, you decide :P), using the templates from black ops to achieve this. Thats where the art comes from, but what I am saying is that the style doesn't always prove its origin :D I think you're right, we just need better evidence than skins for models! [brains]

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Guest AlphaSnake   
Guest AlphaSnake

WMDPartI.jpg

WMDPartII.jpg

WMDPartIII.jpg

Those intels files mentioned.

I have to side with aegisknight & BlindBusDrivr on this.

GKM Mentioned in the same page as the stand off at Der Riese. All this in a campaign intel screen, how can people deny that they are linked...

Regards Alpha.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

My theory has been hijacked! Even used my screenshots :(

well, I may as well provide more evidence.

IMG_0403.jpg

Spawn, its got lots of things going on.

2-6.jpg

From the video, you're right. The blood stains aren't the same. However,

22-1.jpg

IMG_04032.jpg

The blood stains (and the floor in general) are rendered with different tiles, but someone was sure to be very careful in putting the stains in the exact same places. The large splatter/footprint area is slightly different, but the other two spots I circled are exactly the same, despite the fact that they must have been rendered completely anew for the Kino version. You will also notice that the double-windows from Verruckt are the exact same dimension as the blacked out area from Kino.

So I looked around some more.

IMG_0404.jpg

3-4.jpg

The cabinets are newer, but in the same spot and of the same style. Interestingly, the power boxes on the wall are all of a newer design, but are located in the exact same spots. Someone took their time re-rendering and updating this scene. The wire coming out of the power box snakes around a slightly different path, but in both cases it loops around the room before attaching to the chair mechanism.

4-4.jpg

IMG_0405.jpg

But is it the same room?

overlay1.jpg

I took screenshots as close to the same spot as I could, and did a hard light overlay. Things match up, if not, its pretty damn close. But the best comparisons are in the juggernog room. Lets check it out:

IMG_0406.jpg

5-3.jpg

Bookshelves and window in the exact same spots, books strewn about the floor in the same fashion. However, the wall textures and floors are different. On the right wall, you can see a T pipe configuration completely unchanged between the two areas. Strangest, though:

6-3.jpg

Not the door itself, that lines up pretty closely to the original:

IMG_0408.jpg

If you reconstruct the wall anyway (the file cabinet wall is unrendered, you cannot see it from where you can actually access anyway). The fact that this door even exists, rendered in high detail, means we were meant to be able to see this room. No, what is more important is just to the left. The radiator is missing, and the pipe itself has moved, as if during a renovation process.

Between these two rooms, the only functional changes include a switch in the first room of a locker into a cabinet, the movement of this pipe, and the update of all of the present equipment (from the chair to the doors to the surgical equipment to the power boxes to the tiles on the floor).

What of the other room?

1-6.jpg

Well, not much. There is a blood stain on the floor, but it is not rendered as closely, or with as much detail, as the comparisons from the first room. There is a new wall added, with equipment as well. The only thing I can confirm between the two is that the dimensions of these spaces is the same between the two maps:

IMG_04019.jpg

which isn't especially helpful

Now, I'll break down the most important parts: The rooms are 100% the exact same dimensions as on Verruckt. I spent many hours painstakingly drawing out every dimension of every room of this map foot by foot, there is no doubt in my mind that it is the same. All of the cabinetry is in the exact same positions in Verruckt as in FIVE, everything in that first room is exactly the same apart from the switching out of one locker for a cabinet, and complete texture update.

The second room has the exact same dimensions as the same place in Verruckt, apart from the new wall being added. The addition of the heavy steel door in the other room leads me to believe this area has been sectioned off either in a quarantine or as workspace for the staff, kept separate from the research subjects. The usage of a similar door in Mason's holding area suggests the latter.

But this is no comparison to the evidence presented by the last room. The collapsed bookcases, books on those cases, and books on the floor are completely unchanged from Verruckt. There is no way this is a coincidence or mistake, changing these things is simply too easy for a programmer to do.

Now, why are they at Verruckt? What experiments are they replicating? Well, I did some scouring of the terminal files earlier, and this is what I think:

The following is a summary of techniques developed by [REDACTED] under the

term "Psychic Driving."

STAGE 1:

Patients are to be "depatterned," which is defined as being reduced to a

vegetative state through a combination of high level electroconvulsive shock,

drug-induced sleep, and sensory isolation. When fully depatterned, patients

will be reduced to incontinence of urine and feces and will be incapable of

feeding themselves and will show an inability to state their name, location,

or date.

STAGE 2:

This is where "psychic driving" is introduced. The process consists of playing

to the patients hundreds of hours of audio loops via earphones,

specially-designed helmets, and/or speakers in the sensory isolation room.

For further details, see "A Study of Personality Change Due to Prolonged Repetition

of Verbal Signals" by [REDACTED].

The room has several power boxes wired together and then connecting to instrumentation at the chair; this would be the electroshock. There is no light other than the floods at the top; this is sensory deprivation. Drug induced sleep is possible as well, but I do not yet know the full use of the surgical implementations scattered about, they do not comfortably fit into this theory.

Sorry Aegis but when I noticed that that's the exact same door as the one to the room Mason is in, I just had to spread the word.

Thanks for the pics though, they're awesome.

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Guest aegisknight   
Guest aegisknight

Like most things in zombies they're reusing campaign skins, i.e. just like clarke as the theif, and in WaW demspey being a reused model of polonsky, but this doesn't mean he is polonsky! Likewise we shouldn't jump to the conclusion clarke is the theif or this is the CIA.

But that doesn't make sense. If the wanted it to be Verruckt, why wouldn't they just make it Verruckt? If they wanted it to be a CIA building, why not just copy one directly without the mixture?

This is different. The dimension line up EXACTLY with Verruckts, but yet the parts that aren't in the structure have changed to the stuff in the government's facilities.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

I said its a scene of Verrkuct not-so-destroyed (before or after ww2, you decide :P), using the templates from black ops to achieve this. Thats where the art comes from, but what I am saying is that the style doesn't always prove its origin :D I think you're right, we just need better evidence than skins for models! [brains]

the better evidence is the Juggernog room. See my post above yours with screenshots and explanations.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Some of the GKNOVA6 Documents back this up

3292027.jpg

3292012.jpg

Project Paperclip and Dr. Blome, hired Nazi Scientist after the war, mentioned in almost EVERY document...

And then a German IG complex that was later claimed to be a CIA HQ.

Seems like I've got some more support for this theory

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Guest aegisknight   
Guest aegisknight

that location is in Poland, which isn't Wittenau

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Guest football5699   
Guest football5699

After looking at the pictures, i have concluded that I am scared and Treyarch has literally scared the shit out of me.

Have we found the discovery we were missing from Kino?

The question is, where could Treyarch go from this....There was a mappp...i forget what i guess maybe revolution from WaW where it is so identical that you shit your pants saying wow....I am looking at the Bowie Knife but no Bowie Knife.

Anyone from last summer knows that I would love aftermath maps like what happened after and you tour the maps. That would be ridonculous. :D

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Guest Tac   
Guest Tac

that location is in Poland, which isn't Wittenau

He is not saying that the IG Farben building is Verruckt, more that it proves that the CIA was making safe houses around the area.

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Guest aegisknight   
Guest aegisknight

well it doesn't seem to be a safe house to me

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Guest aegisknight   
Guest aegisknight

I went through the campaign, and the water cooler that replaces Juggernog is indeed also located at the pentagon

photo4-1.jpg

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Guest Shoreyo   
Guest Shoreyo

[brains] to alpha! Some solid evidence :D It reminded me of the terminal! How could I forget, all the references to Der Riese and Verruckt found in a CIA database...

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