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Guest BlindBusDrivr

Kino is not in normal dimension?

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

I have been thinking for a while about Kino Der Toten's strange timeline. Since they are older and all. But the date of when it takes place, does not add up with Five.

At Five we have many things from Kino. To many for it to be a coincidence. Yet Kino in time happens in late 60s, while Five is early 60s. So hw can what they took still be there?

Alternate Universe.

Its like Source Code.

So they would be in a realm where everything was the same but the Americans never came.

Only thing that really makes sense currently IMO

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Guest TheFallen0ne   
Guest TheFallen0ne

In a theory , the whole thing is stuck in a time loop. Technically people already went to kino when it was fucked up but before The Team came in , so far leaving messages , they probably got the stuff there .

But thats just a theory . Maybe they took the stuff wayyy before The Team came , their age , because of the exposure of 115 too much , them returning to become young i have no idea , i think teleporting back to Shangri-la made them younger again . Somewhat .

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Guest yellow-card8   
Guest yellow-card8

I never thought of that, I will play some zombies since thats when I get a whole lot of theories, but [brains] for making us think again except of "OMG MOON !!!!!"

Regards Yellow-card8

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Guest TruTrilogYxTazzY   
Guest TruTrilogYxTazzY

I'am New But i believe kino is held around 1942 cause if u look at the manikins on bottom left i believe its says 1942. Idk just story its in the dressing room.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

I'am New But i believe kino is held around 1942 cause if u look at the manikins on bottom left i believe its says 1942. Idk just story its in the dressing room.

Welcome to the forums :D

I believe Kino's events could have taken place around then, but the characters don't get there til the early 60's, since the Berlin wall is outside the map and you can see the Berlin TV tower partially constructed, and it's construction was from 1965-1969. While Five, is in the fall of 1962. Now I just noticed this recently but the while thing with the 4 talking in the cutscene, is to show us when it takes place. It's a conference about the Cuban Missile Crisis, so I would believe that is when it takes place.

Also I would recommend reading my full story posts in the general discussion, it gives you good layout of the whole story, but so far the 3 parts total up to 4,000 words+ so it will take a little.

and enjoy the forums :mrgreen:

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Guest candlekiller   
Guest candlekiller

i think teleporting back to Shangri-la made them younger again . Somewhat .

I thought Shangri-la in real life (sort of) was a mythological place in the himalayas guarded by monks that while you were in Shangri-la you didn't age, sort of like the fountain of youth only the person searching for that was Ponce de Leon who was french.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

i think teleporting back to Shangri-la made them younger again . Somewhat .

I thought Shangri-la in real life (sort of) was a mythological place in the himalayas guarded by monks that while you were in Shangri-la you didn't age, sort of like the fountain of youth only the person searching for that was Ponce de Leon who was french.

I believe it has to do with the Vril's healing abilities

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Guest phat130y69ps3   
Guest phat130y69ps3

five takes place the same time as ascencion...this is proven because the red phones contact them in asencion.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

This has me intrigued. I never really looked into what dates the maps take place in as I always presumed that they where released in chronological order. If Kino takes place after "Five" then that means the events in Ascension take place before Kino, no? Maybe the radio in Shi No Numa explains them traveling from Der Riese to Ascension, then after that they went to Kino rather than the other way round which we all presumed? Saying that though, there would need to be a reason for them going to Kino after freeing Gersch. Despite that it does make more sense that they teleported from Kino to CotD because Ascension doesn't have a Teleporter. So basically what could have happened is they overloaded the teleporter, ended up in Ascension, freed Gersch then used a Lunar Lander to escape to Kino. Good theory? Not exactly! The dates don't make sense. If Ascension is in 1962 and Kino between 1965-1969 that means it took the crew 3-7 years to get from Ascension to Kino, it wouldn't even take you 3-7 hours on a Lunar Lander or any other aircraft for that matter.

My guess is that upon overloading the teleporter in Der Riese they ended up causing some kind of tear in the aether which caused them to be 'spat out' in a different time and through the receiving node in Kino which Maxis had set up before being 'killed'. My evidence for this is that when you teleport in Kino you're taken to different locations, a feature which wasn't present in Der Riese, which makes me believe that the aether is no longer stable or at least the teleporter. This can also be used to explain how they got from Kino to Ascension. Maybe they used the teleporter in Kino then they went through an 'opening' in the aether which was caused by the Kassimir Mechanism, sending the crew back to 1962. Upon arriving at the Ascension Cosmodrome Richtofen instantly sees the potential of this mechanism seeing as though he can use it to complete his 'Grand Scheme', however he needs to get hold of it and that means freeing Gersch. After doing this he tries to 'tune' the mechanism so it will take him to CotD where he can get his Golden Rod. The rest is pretty much explained from there on out, although i'm not sure how they get to Area 51 from Shangri-La!

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

This has me intrigued. I never really looked into what dates the maps take place in as I always presumed that they where released in chronological order. If Kino takes place after "Five" then that means the events in Ascension take place before Kino, no? Maybe the radio in Shi No Numa explains them traveling from Der Riese to Ascension, then after that they went to Kino rather than the other way round which we all presumed? Saying that though, there would need to be a reason for them going to Kino after freeing Gersch. Despite that it does make more sense that they teleported from Kino to CotD because Ascension doesn't have a Teleporter. So basically what could have happened is they overloaded the teleporter, ended up in Ascension, freed Gersch then used a Lunar Lander to escape to Kino. Good theory? Not exactly! The dates don't make sense. If Ascension is in 1962 and Kino between 1965-1969 that means it took the crew 3-7 years to get from Ascension to Kino, it wouldn't even take you 3-7 hours on a Lunar Lander or any other aircraft for that matter.

My guess is that upon overloading the teleporter in Der Riese they ended up causing some kind of tear in the aether which caused them to be 'spat out' in a different time and through the receiving node in Kino which Maxis had set up before being 'killed'. My evidence for this is that when you teleport in Kino you're taken to different locations, a feature which wasn't present in Der Riese, which makes me believe that the aether is no longer stable or at least the teleporter. This can also be used to explain how they got from Kino to Ascension. Maybe they used the teleporter in Kino then they went through an 'opening' in the aether which was caused by the Kassimir Mechanism, sending the crew back to 1962. Upon arriving at the Ascension Cosmodrome Richtofen instantly sees the potential of this mechanism seeing as though he can use it to complete his 'Grand Scheme', however he needs to get hold of it and that means freeing Gersch. After doing this he tries to 'tune' the mechanism so it will take him to CotD where he can get his Golden Rod. The rest is pretty much explained from there on out, although i'm not sure how they get to Area 51 from Shangri-La!

Well the 115 overloaded them at Der Riese, so that's how they got to Kino, the radio at solo says so. After that, something happens in between then and Ascension, and they get out of the Dimension because it's back in 1962 there. Then the Gersch takes them to the Russian outpost at CotD when it counteracts with the Casimir Mechanism. After that they teleport to Call of the Dead, where they are stranded til the actors send them to Shangri La, then somehow get to Area 51. Likely by the same random methods they got to Der Riese from SNN from.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

Well the 115 overloaded them at Der Riese, so that's how they got to Kino, the radio at solo says so. After that, something happens in between then and Ascension, and they get out of the Dimension because it's back in 1962 there. Then the Gersch takes them to the Russian outpost at CotD when it counteracts with the Casimir Mechanism. After that they teleport to Call of the Dead, where they are stranded til the actors send them to Shangri La, then somehow get to Area 51. Likely by the same random methods they got to Der Riese from SNN from.

I don't understand what you're saying? To me you have just written what I posted but made it a lot more brief and hard to understand. Seeing as though the moon achievement/trophy states something like 'complete richtofens grand scheme' you would have to assume that everything is exactly that, a scheme. There is a reason we go where we do, it's not just random methods. Understanding how they get to and from these locations can only reveal more of the story to us.

I think you should revise your post and make some structural changes to make it easier for everybody to understand what you are trying to get across.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Well the 115 overloaded them at Der Riese, so that's how they got to Kino, the radio at solo says so. After that, something happens in between then and Ascension, and they get out of the Dimension because it's back in 1962 there. Then the Gersch takes them to the Russian outpost at CotD when it counteracts with the Casimir Mechanism. After that they teleport to Call of the Dead, where they are stranded til the actors send them to Shangri La, then somehow get to Area 51. Likely by the same random methods they got to Der Riese from SNN from.

I don't understand what you're saying? To me you have just written what I posted but made it a lot more brief and hard to understand. Seeing as though the moon achievement/trophy states something like 'complete richtofens grand scheme' you would have to assume that everything is exactly that, a scheme. There is a reason we go where we do, it's not just random methods. Understanding how they get to and from these locations can only reveal more of the story to us.

I think you should revise your post and make some structural changes to make it easier for everybody to understand what you are trying to get across.

Well I'm saying we don't know because we don't. Richtofen didn't have the jet suit at Kino, did he just decide he wanted to wear one? Something happened in between, probably to be revealed much later. And they don't teleport everywhere, the could have taken a plane or something. I doubt they're taking the ground during the zombies apocalypse.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

Well I'm saying we don't know because we don't. Richtofen didn't have the jet suit at Kino, did he just decide he wanted to wear one? Something happened in between, probably to be revealed much later. And they don't teleport everywhere, the could have taken a plane or something. I doubt they're taking the ground during the zombies apocalypse.

Oh I see what you're trying to say, but I'll stick with what I said in my original post; The crew didn't fly from Kino to Ascension because Ascebsion takes place before Kino. Which means they must have somehow travelled back in time and the only device they have at Kino capable of that is the teleporter. The crew must have then used the gersh device/mechanism to teleport 'back to the future' to end up in CotD which, I think, takes place present day onwards. So teleporting and time travelling seems a bit more plausible than using air transport because the dates don't make sense.

As for the space suit, I don't think that they travelled directly to the ascension cosmodrome but rather just outside of it or something because the intro to ascension has the characters coming down on a lunar lander suggesting that they acquired it from somewhere with the purpose of entering the cosmodrome. My 'evidence' for this is that each lander that's available to you in Ascension is marked with a Russian letter, which I think, in english, translates to B, D & F which would seem to indicate that there are possibly more landers seeing as though A,C & E are missing. But you're right about something happening in between for Richtofen to be wearing a spacesuit. I dont know the significance of it, if any, so I guess that's still up for debate.

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Guest BlindBusDrivr   
Guest BlindBusDrivr

Well I'm saying we don't know because we don't. Richtofen didn't have the jet suit at Kino, did he just decide he wanted to wear one? Something happened in between, probably to be revealed much later. And they don't teleport everywhere, the could have taken a plane or something. I doubt they're taking the ground during the zombies apocalypse.

Oh I see what you're trying to say, but I'll stick with what I said in my original post; The crew didn't fly from Kino to Ascension because Ascebsion takes place before Kino. Which means they must have somehow travelled back in time and the only device they have at Kino capable of that is the teleporter. The crew must have then used the gersh device/mechanism to teleport 'back to the future' to end up in CotD which, I think, takes place present day onwards. So teleporting and time travelling seems a bit more plausible than using air transport because the dates don't make sense.

As for the space suit, I don't think that they travelled directly to the ascension cosmodrome but rather just outside of it or something because the intro to ascension has the characters coming down on a lunar lander suggesting that they acquired it from somewhere with the purpose of entering the cosmodrome. My 'evidence' for this is that each lander that's available to you in Ascension is marked with a Russian letter, which I think, in english, translates to B, D & F which would seem to indicate that there are possibly more landers seeing as though A,C & E are missing. But you're right about something happening in between for Richtofen to be wearing a spacesuit. I dont know the significance of it, if any, so I guess that's still up for debate.

Well, there's one problem with that theory. It would mean Ascension is before Der Riese as well, since the new radio at Shi No Numa says they get tele ported to the theatre because the Wunderwaffes at der Riese overloaded with 115 and sent them to Kino.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

What? How? Ascension is happening in 1962(or 3) while Der Riese is happening during WW2 or just after. Read through my posts again and you will understand.

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Guest The Courtesy Caller   
Guest The Courtesy Caller

I've never really payed much attention to where Kino came into the story, but since we know FIVE and Ascension are at the same time, then they overloaded the Kassimir Mechanism to get to the Siberian facility, THEN use the Vril Generator to go to Shangri-La, we seem to be stuck at two completely different parts of the timeline. We know HOW the crew got to Kino, but we don't know WHEN. What we do know is that it has to be sometime after Shangri-La, but before Moon. Why? Because if Ascension is in 1962, and CotD and Shangri-La follow, but we don't know when Moon takes place, then Kino must be the one to fill the space. I know a lot of theories say that Kino is before all of them, but remember at XP, Jimmy Zelinksi said that we haven't found nearly eenough of the little secrets in each map. So I suggest that we all get hunting and hopefully we can find the evidence we need!

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

I've never really payed much attention to where Kino came into the story, but since we know FIVE and Ascension are at the same time, then they overloaded the Kassimir Mechanism to get to the Siberian facility, THEN use the Vril Generator to go to Shangri-La, we seem to be stuck at two completely different parts of the timeline. We know HOW the crew got to Kino, but we don't know WHEN. What we do know is that it has to be sometime after Shangri-La, but before Moon. Why? Because if Ascension is in 1962, and CotD and Shangri-La follow, but we don't know when Moon takes place, then Kino must be the one to fill the space. I know a lot of theories say that Kino is before all of them, but remember at XP, Jimmy Zelinksi said that we haven't found nearly eenough of the little secrets in each map. So I suggest that we all get hunting and hopefully we can find the evidence we need!

Let's just try and clear something up.

Without sounding like a bitch, it pains me to see so many people failing to understand this. All of the jumping to and from different points in time is what causes most of the confusion when it comes to this discussion, when really it's not that hard to understand if you think about it. The confusion comes when you start discussing in which period of time a map takes place then it gets misconstrued with when the maps are taking place IN THE STORY.

I see what you're trying to say about Kino coming after Ascension, CotD and Shangri-La but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. If you are however talking about real time then Kino is taking place after Ascension but before CotD. Ascension is confirmed to be taking place during "Five", we know that, we don't know exactly when that is though. I've heard theories saying that it is happening in the fall of 1962 however in the war room on "Five" there is a huge board with the year 1963 on it. Despite that it's still before Kino der toten as we can see a semi-constructed Fernsehturm Berlin (Berlin Television Tower) on Kino which according to Wikipedia was constructed between 1965 - 1969. So Kino takes place sometime in between 1965 and 1969, going by the state of the tower I'd say it was pretty far into construction making it around about 1967-68, a potential 6-7 years after the events at Ascension happened. Call of the Dead is supposedly meant to be happening sometime in the present day/very near future which is 40 odd years after either of those two maps happened.

IN THE STORY the characters go to Kino first. There are a few factors that point towards this, probably the most obvious one being the loading screen to Kino.

Kino_Der_Untoten_Loading_Screen.jpg

I guess it's pretty safe to say that this loading screen depicts the events preceding the characters arrival at Kino. It shows all of the old maps in the first three frames then, for the last two, it shows the characters using the teleporter and being sent forward in time. This also ties in with the radio on Shi No Numa, the one that says about them overloading the teleporter at Der Riese. After Kino they go back in time to Ascension. It's not know how or why; My theory for this is in my OP on this thread, they get sent there via a 'glitch' in the teleporter, possibly because it is faulty as it sends you to various locations when you use it (Veruckt, the Pentagon, Sam's room etc...). However they got there, something happened when they did because Rictophen is sporting the space suit and they are shown to be arriving via Lunar Lander.

After Ascension they arrive at CotD which is happening present day/near future. Now from here it's hard to judge whether they travel back or forwards in time or stayed present day because, as far as I know, nobody knows when Shangri-La is happening, or moon for that matter. The way the story progresses just wouldn't make sense for them to go to Kino before going to Area 51 and ultimately the Moon. For starters there is no reason and wouldn't Rictophen be holding the Golden Rod/Focusing Stone?

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Guest TheBrockstah   
Guest TheBrockstah

You guys have to remember they can teleport to any timeline. Kino could have happened in time after Ascension and five, but the event's happened BEFORE they went to Ascension. Same could be said for all the maps. It could be set up in a weird constructed timelines where all the years are jumbled up.

Each map is in order of how it is done, but not in time.

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Guest jc18378   
Guest jc18378

None of these maps are in the normal dimension, they jump around alot through time. Gunning and running. Five was mainly set to explain how the US had been testing with the 115. It is all a big conspiracy with all the main powers of WWII working together to use 115 for teleportation.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

None of these maps are in the normal dimension, they jump around alot through time. Gunning and running. Five was mainly set to explain how the US had been testing with the 115. It is all a big conspiracy with all the main powers of WWII working together to use 115 for teleportation.

Yeah I too believe that with all the jumping to and from different points in time they have somehow ended up in a kind of parallel dimension. I also agree that "Five" was there to show how the American's have been extending on what research group 935 did with element 115. I don't however think that the major powers are working together, rather they have each acquired knowledge of the element and are using it in various ways to compete against each other. i.e, Space race and moon landings.

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Guest jc18378   
Guest jc18378

None of these maps are in the normal dimension, they jump around alot through time. Gunning and running. Five was mainly set to explain how the US had been testing with the 115. It is all a big conspiracy with all the main powers of WWII working together to use 115 for teleportation.

Yeah I too believe that with all the jumping to and from different points in time they have somehow ended up in a kind of parallel dimension. I also agree that "Five" was there to show how the American's have been extending on what research group 935 did with element 115. I don't however think that the major powers are working together, rather they have each acquired knowledge of the element and are using it in various ways to compete against each other. i.e, Space race and moon landings.

They are working together. If you listen to the radio on Moon you can here Dr. Maxis say that they are working with other scientist from all over the world but they cant say anything to anyone. There is a painting in five and one of them is blacked out. That is Dr. Maxis and he was working along the americans and russians. They were all working to achieve different goals but they were in a coalition.

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Guest die Doktor   
Guest die Doktor

Think about this. If the tower was built in the 60's then it should be in the 60's. BUT if this was so, then there should be NO Swastikas, No Nazis and no broken theater? So why is there? :?: Further I think the civilian population would notice zombies in the alleyway but they don't!

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Guest jc18378   
Guest jc18378

There should be swastikas, remember there is a zombie break out. Zombies usually dont take down the decor. Besides you should know that if there was a zombie outbreak in the late 40's there would probably be one in the 60's. As for the tower, I think its just a set piece to show you where you are.

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Guest strange-bow7   
Guest strange-bow7

There should be swastikas, remember there is a zombie break out. Zombies usually dont take down the decor. Besides you should know that if there was a zombie outbreak in the late 40's there would probably be one in the 60's. As for the tower, I think its just a set piece to show you where you are.

I've speculated about this before and I have to tell you that you are wrong in saying that the storyline is happening during a Zombie apocalypse. In fact, I made a thread a while back discussing this very subject - Are the Zombie maps happening during a Zombie apocalypse or are each maps separate outbreaks? I'm not going into detail about it here but you can take a look at the thread and see what other guys think about it: http://callofdutyzombies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17247

As for the swastikas, posters, absence of citizens and other Nazi parafunalia it does point towards an 'Alternate Reality/Time period/Universe. However, despite all of the date and time confusion, I think that we have been given enough information to work out what's actually going on.

First off we are given the name of the theatre.

Check out this link: Kino_der_Toten_Zombie_Map_Select_Menu_Pi

In this image we can see that the name of the theatre is 'Deutsches Sol Kino'. Now, after some research I found a guy who had actually found the location of this theatre on google maps and therefore found the location at which Kino is supposedly taking place. For those of you who haven't seen this image, check it out...

30l2u01.png

All credit goes out to the guy who found this, don't know who it is, but after seeing this it inspired me to further investigate the location of Kino in hope that it would shed some light on the questions that surround it.

I did some digging and came up with my own rendition of the real world location of the theatre. Let's take a look.

realkinocopy.jpg

I used maps to find the spot and it's pretty much identical to the original that I found. I also highlighted the tower and overlayed a map of the Berlin Wall which is coloured purple. Putting all this together seems to make sense, the theatre is situated next to a straight stretch of the wall and the TV tower is in plain view in the distance. This all corresponds with what we see in game and further backs up that this is indeed the 'real' Kino Der Toten.

Up until the Berlin Wall was torn down the four main Allies from World War 2 each had their own sector of the city. At first I thought that Russia would be the power controlling the sector in which Kino is found due to the Thundergun being there. However, it's actually Britain that controlled the sector with Kino with Russia controlling the East side of the wall. It's pretty irrelevant information, I know, but I thought that it may have some bearings on the story.

berr.jpg

So that's the location pretty much covered. Not only do we have an understanding of where its happening but we can safely say that the scenery isn't there just to show us where we are but is actually corresponding with the real world. While this doesn't entirely disprove that they are in an alternate reality, it does show that the characters aren't in any kind of dimension where the real world has been altered.

With that in mind we move on to the next question - When is it happening?

There is nothing more frustrating than trying to pin this map to a date when there are so many different factors that point towards different dates. With these different factors it's hard to tell whether the map is riddled with continuity errors or actually taking place in some kind of skewered time frame. The best way to sort this out is to compile a list of everything we know about in Kino that points towards a certain date/time frame and go from there.

First up, the TV tower. I feel like I've used this over and over again and you guys don't need me to repeat that the tower is under construction during Kino and it was being built between 1965-69 blah blah blah... For some reason, though, people choose to ignore this despite it being one of the biggest indications to a specific date that's on the map. I'm no construction expert but if we were to believe that the date is determined by the tower then it would have to be like 1968-69 due to the state of the tower. If this were the case then we would have to question the swastikas and absence of civilization. It's not impossible that the theatre had been abandoned after Maxis did his thing with the teleporters back in World War 2 (Not sure what the date is that he set everything up there) and therefore the Nazi symbolism remained there untouched. It is questionable though. Why would the Theatre still be there with functioning teleporters and swastikas when Western Berlin was one of the most populated German cities during the Cold War Era? (Wikipedia!!) Surely it would have been cleared out immediately and possibly even destroyed. It doesn't mean that the map isn't happening in the 65-69 timeframe but it does raise some questions.

Next up is the Car outside the map. I can't remember exactly but it's a VW bus that was in production some time in the 70's. This too indicates a possible alternate time frame as it doesn't fit in with the construction of the tower and further backs up what I was saying about the swastikas and teleporters. If they weren't removed by 1965 then surely they can't STILL be there in the 70's. Can they?

Another factor is the weapons. The AK74u to be precise. A model that wasn't in production until 1979, a possible 10 years after the Tower is built.

So, as for the date, it's still wide open for debate. There are loads of possibilities,

1965-69

1970-79

Countless continuity errors

No date at all but rather an alternate reality where times have been merged.

Whatever it turns out to be my money is on it being in the 65-69 timeframe. The tower seems like too much of a clue to be ignored, even with all the other factors clashing with this theory.

So, we know where, we kind of know when but we don't know whether it's in an alternate dimension.

I have a theory though that sounds like it might not be too far from the truth.

I think that when we are in Kino we are experiencing the same kind of 'frozen time' like in Der Riese. If you played Der Riese you will know that the clock on the tower is stuck at 1:15, an obvious reference to element 115 but it was also there to show you are stuck in a certain point in time; While space and time carry on like normal the characters are stuck and existing in a fixed period in time, in this case, quarter past one. I think that arriving in Kino caused the same thing to happen. No civilization or sign of life? That's because the characters are stuck in a certain time, and while they can live, breath, move and fight like normal but the time never advances until they travel to Ascension.

Bit of a long read, I know, but these are the facts guys. Thanks for making it this far and be sure to let me know what you think is occuring at Kino.

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Guest die Doktor   
Guest die Doktor

Im not saying I agree or disagree about the Kino time thingy-paradox-majig. I'm just saying that the tower and the swastikas should not match up. No matter what time its in, as its still in the same British sector. My question( or rather second) is how did it escape bombing being so close to the Reichstag? At the time accuracy is poor, still is. So how does this old, decrpit building survive? with flags teleporter ( no doubt a sensitive machine) and other things survive?

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