Aussienitro

I have one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_KLxiDTTmQ More accurately described as a tilting block action, mines a .357 magnum and they are single shot but yes some were converted to 12ga. Still don't see any real reason to say its a shotgun at all though, my moneys on an artistic impression of a rifle. Though its a good find the remington if you stand by it being a shotgun craftyshot, probably a gun originally in .45-70? as they will chamber and fire .410 shotshells.

Yep! I think last time we spoke it was only a silhouette. I was one of the ones that was modelled though I couldn't animate its "effect" so I just had it fire some bullets off. I just called it "Adrenalin" in vid while "TARR115 Adrenalin" in pdf. I think its the only gun that went right through without significant modification. And thanks fellas.

Then no, it definately has an under barrel tube magazine which makes the barrel far too small for a shotgun, which in this case would look like an "olympia" due to the magazine + barrel. In fact I don't even know of any other lever action shotguns then the winchester 1887 (featured in MW2/3) which only had a partial length magazine.

I don't know why people are calling it a shotgun. If I had to guess it would be a winchester 1894 or possibly a Henry, in something like .30-30. Remington are not an obvious choice for a lever action, and neither is a shotgun. The most iconic and obvious choice.

Thanks for pointing that out! I've been looking at it every day for 10 years wondering why it looked different. Now I know :shock: .

Exactly this was done in Fallout 3, even the same name! Its better suited to there where you can actually pick up all objects, the idea itself seems too cartoony for zombies to me, something you'd see in dead rising. The same idea was presented to me last year when I was making the models for this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYPOiga4og, so instead of firing bricks and chip packets at zombies I used 2" tungsten balls, which I just happened to have on hand: Which is very heavy (same density as gold and depleted uranium). Exactly the same effect, just in a more believable form. No one did care much for this gun but in actual use I think it would probably be the most fun of the lot. Sorry I don't like your "honeycomb" g7un hunjimirmixes, for the same reason as firing cinderblocks at them, just too far out of the realm of reality. For some reason it leaves me thinking of superman. Well a more powerful shotgun is just fine kraigm345, perhaps firing flechettes, though this was actually done with the M79 in vietnam. I have some of those on hand too

Perfectly valid questions and since you took the time to think of them and write them out I'll do my best to answer all of them (even if it takes me all night :geek: ). Some I've answered before so excuse any copy and paste answers. I've also said above that I don't expect anything big this next game and likely the last of this generation console, the next.. they better have some big ideas in stall. To be honest it not my job to answer a lot of these questions because I'm not qualified to do so, but I will give an opinion which can be taken for what it is. I'm not a game programmer so I don't know. What I do know (regarding the FUSION guns) is that I made 9 of them, (at least modelled, textured and animated) and I had bugger all idea what I was doing just playing with the program treyarch used to make the gun models. I also recieved nothing for the trouble as I'm not a billion dollar company, so honestly I don't see new guns as a big deal. Yes the ones I done were simplistic by comparison but to someone who knows what they are doing, and making a lot of money doing it, its not too much to expect. BLOODLINE should be a one time investment, essentially creating a template and equation that will work on the released map which can be copied through onto every subsequent release. So writing a piece of code that pulls numbers from two guns, averages them and inserts them into another, I don't see it as a big deal. It may be a case that the coding prevents easy access to this but thats impossible for me to say. What I have seen complexity in is averaging a normal bullet firing weapon with a launcher, in that case one could just say you can only mate like with like (so assault rifles/smgs/sniper rifles etc. are different breeds of same thing and can be mated, rocket launchers and grenade launcers are a breed of a different species and cannot be mated with the bullet firers) Just continuing the mating analogy. This simplifies things further so it really is just a simple averaging equation. I've answered this above but will try to re-word it. The gun system as it stands is flawed, theres really nothing to work towards and no depth in gun procession. The best guns are available straight from the start through random chance so they are never seen as an achievment. People want something to work towards and other then another round ticking over a FUSION gun would be that something. There is a requirement for more powerful guns (which coincides with the removal of "rape training" which bores me to tears) so having the ability to work towards more powerful guns in a way other then sitting at a box "hitting it" over an over to get a ray gun by random chance is a huge plus. As for system resource cost, I dont see a problem there either. In MP there is a limit as every gun must be loaded at all times this is not the case for zombies, the game knows what you have and whats available and can load up the next possibilities for seamless transition unlike MP where anyone at anytime can jump in with his silenced red dot jungle pattern famas or any other combination. Weapon balancing isn't an issue because as I said there is a need for more powerful guns available at a higher tier then the ray gun (though simular in effectiveness), and BLOODLINE only averages, so you are not getting a more powerful gun as you can only tune within the parameters of those already present. I can't see any changes in level design as its only using whats already there, the mystery box and PaP machine. Nope, they had that chance in BO and added nothing that will hold over into BO2. Nothing I want to see held over anyway it was all a one shot gimmick unlike W@W whose additions seemed to all carry over. Well unless they want to spend their time making the buildable fort I gave in the bottom movie which I'd choose over all else, though thats even more far fetched the PaP: FUSION. Yes, if you were to use your money to take and PaP your weapons rather then hitting the box 10 times to recieve a single useful gun you go though far more weapons then you think. You would find yourself finding value in guns that you once did not, as money invested in them will carry over. It provides the variability that prevents one doing the same thing over and over, is a necessity but it should only influence your path and not be the beginning and the end, it gives a closed and choiceless feeling. Is that even important, or only important to the one that your have created and are holding in your hand. The "parent" weapons will always be the known standards by which breeding would begin so their individual qualities are always important so you can judge what path you should take and have some chance at predicting the outcome. Thats a difficult question as I believe I'm more revolutionary then most and would like to see a complete overhaul. I'd love to say teamwork here but it really isn't, as the most effective strategy is running around in circles by yourself. I see it as a brilliant foundation for a game rather then a refined gamemode and really wish they'd experiment more. I'm just emphasising the word "creation" and hoping it has an impact so that every game you can choose a different path or tactic and giving a feeling of achievement, experimentation and strategy. I don't want to sound too critical of Treyarch as everything I've said is only building on what they have done, and actually doing something is far harder then spouting off "improvements". Still, they've baked the cake but its in real need of the icing. Well honestly no, I think the their value is only in the fact they are all the fans have come to expect rather then any significant advancements. A single "wonder weapon" often of limited value that can only be held by one person has grown stale on me. If you are saying fusion would take away from that single wonder weapon to the detriment of the game then no, its being replaced by something far far better and theres nothing to say they cant still swap guns in and out with each release then have people trying to find what combinations work again. I hadn't actually thought of the attribute change with the bowie + Krauss, good example. They had the wave gun join into something else entirely too, granted this isn't "attribute altering" but thats the difference between BLOODLINE and FUSION. To me, its perfectly suited to the wave survival mode. What seems simple and straight forward in my mind proves difficult to write out into as many words as one would read The example in the movie is a long one but in game I'd expect you would only run strings of 2 or 3 tiers before swapping back out for a powerful gun and starting again. Imagine starting with only one BLOODLINE tier and a leveling system that unlocks more tiers in BLOODLINE, imagine attribute modifiers being used in the BLOODLINE equation, imagine an easter egg that required a 4th tier bloodline gun and the odds someone would stumble across it. (I'm taking real easter eggs not the rewarded objectives which they have become). Imagine a name generator like the "gangsta name generator" but instead operates alongside the BLOODLINE equation giving cool gun names for your creation. It opens up a lot of room for expansion and discovery.

Thanks Alter72. The BLOODLINE could be expanded on I've just given the simplest to impliment. Next gen they could be looking at making the guns truly modular, mate an AK with a L96 and you get a AK stock with L96 barrel, the actual models of each modular gun part can swap around. Problem is that would be really hard to do on "real" guns for example the magazine wells are different sizes. They would been to create a variety of models for each part. This was actually already done on borderlands, though it was all just randomly generated, barrels mags etc. swapped between guns. With Zombies I'd love them to stick with the "breeding" analogy as close as possible so you can actively create and evolve your gun not just randomly get it, nor just make it by fitting parts which is too simplistic and you would find yourself doing the same thing over and over without any real experimentaion or unknowns. Now a couple generations down the road they can make it truly hybrid by averaging all the vertices in the modular gun part models to make the guns truly unique when fused but for now, really, I'd be perfectly content with averaged numbers.

Umm thats the beauty of BLOODLINE, and the reason it was thought up. There is no extra memory needed, or at least very little. There is already perks that change reload time, fire rate, recoil, power etc. They are not producing another gun for all of these possible combinations, just a number in the coding. The only thing needed is a distinguishing texture which is minimal, they use a tonne of camos in MP. And the "1300" was just the first tier, now mate one of the 1300 with the other 1299+, then think about how big the 3rd tier number will be and you'll see how vast BLOODLINE is. Allows complete tuning of your gun, though still at the mercy of a random box.

I doubt there will be a BO3, as it seems likely that years release will be on the next gen consoles thus I would think it a marketing fail to have its name associated with the past when people will be expecting something grand and fresh for the next generation. I really don't want them to stretch the story/era out that far anyway.

I think its pretty good. Though remember you cant run through people/zombies so if you are in a tight spot you will get stuck up on those laying on the ground, for that reason and others it wouldn't be as good as monkey bombs and people would bitch about that. So as a weapon would be prefered, particularly if the shakes from a direct impact passed from one zombie to the next if they touched in a cascading effect. I links into tesla doomsday weapons as well as he (i believe) was working on an earthquake weapon, well it was him or someone else. So it would be a "grenade launcher" that has a spiked projectile that sticks in trhe ground or a zombie. Love the name fault liner too. [brains]

The following is a copy and paste from one of my posts on the official cod forums. It was in reply to someone elses "wonder weapon" idea that was a bit well over the top but I think the process can be applied to a good many peoples ideas.. "I think you need to organise your train of thought better. Balls of plasma.. OK, its a real world phenomenon that could very well be weaponised. But it surely does not "suck zombies towards it", "shred them" with "kinda more electricity". You're adding anything you can think of together and ending up with an undescernable mess. Now there is the ray gun that is best explained by plasma already, lets pretend the "rings" around each shot are ablated magnetic matter that protect and keep the projected plasma (heated ionised gas) together and on target. So I believe plasma is already done. Heres how to organise your train of thoughts: Think of a real world example that could form a weapon. We'll keep the charged particles but this time in the form of a particle beam. What real world phenomenon creates a stream of particles? the solar wind there you go you have a name for your gun. Need another name for PaP, well what links with solar wind? aurora is the interaction of the solar wind with the earths magetic field so we have that to give a name. Think of what effect would a stream of partcles actually have? well theres mass in particles so its a kinetic effect on target and associated heat from the impact and energy transfer. Its effect is the cause of a comets tail. What range and spread would it have? well particles would be very hard to direct in earths atmosphere so its range would be quickly eaten up by heating the air that it has to pass through, there is also no force to direct it so it spreads out once leaving the weapon. This gives it a short range and high spread. What we've ended up with is: Solar wind (PaP = Aurora Zombralis) looks like your thunder gun but projects a stream of particles in a shotgun type of range and spread but as a constant projection like the flamethrower. Effect on target is like being sand blasted with billions of subatomic particles, the skin is ripped away then muscles then a brief shot of bone which are then picked up and carried away as dust and ember in a "tail" like a comet. So it doesn't have to be in any way practlical in the real world, but needs to be tied to real world physics. For example the thunder gun shooting a torroid of air is easily demonstrated in real life, but in real world practical terms the firer would have shot backwards far faster then the zombies that were hit by it The wunderwaffe would be an electron beam fired guided by firing through ionised air. The Winter howl would be a burtst of N2 etc. they can be explained."

I have to say I normally roll my eyes when I read something starting with "W@W was better" but I read every word of what you had to say and not only was it well written but I agree with near all of it, and whatever I didn't wasn't really important. I particularly agree with you on the subject of the poll, the gameplay degenerating into running in circles has been the biggest problem. The solution isnt that easy, indeed the guns really are not powerful enough to do much else (something else you highlighted). So perhaps a cure would be to have the zombies target something other then your person at times and providing guns capable of actually holding them back. Yes in agreement with gun variety as well, why do they ALWAYS make all the sniper rifles and shotguns completely useless or run out of ammo 1/4 way through a round. Its got to the point where I dont even want the ray gun to return because its just so damn banal. Yeh I tried to address this with the PaP: fusion which I see you mentioned, there needs to be a way of beefing up the guns in order to provide viable alternatives to running in circles and that damn ray gun.

This thread seems better cared for then the sticky, so.. If this is the list then I will add my contribution of what I've written that I hold to the highest value, Gun Fusions: Fuse two guns to vreate a new one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYPOiga4og Gun Breeding: Breed two guns via teleportation creating a single gun with the average properties of the two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlqA4q75LOQ Buildable Defences: Fortify a building as your home base to defend. Examples on page 23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Daylight and Midnight rounds: Daylight opens up a larger map and provides the break to load up, hunt, build complete "easter eggs" etc. Description on page 21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Gameplay objectives (not "easter eggs"): A number of objectives or challenges could be implemented; these are optional and show themselves throughout the course of the game. The reward provides incentive to complete them; however there is no penalty if they are not attempted. Examples on page 26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Map: "Banjawarn", set on Banjawarn station, scene of doomsday cult and supposed meteorite impact, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZ0s1rKkrk

Heh yeh I did, I actually sent them the vid with their name on it before I uploaded it, but there were no takers (nor replies) they do their own thing.

If this is the list then I will add my contribution of what I've written that I hold to the highest value, Gun Fusions: Fuse two guns to vreate a new one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYPOiga4og Gun Breeding: Breed two guns via teleportation creating a single gun with the average properties of the two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlqA4q75LOQ Buildable Defences: Fortify a building as your home base to defend. Examples on page 23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Daylight and Midnight rounds: Daylight opens up a larger map and provides the break to load up, hunt, build complete "easter eggs" etc. Description on page 21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Gameplay objectives (not "easter eggs"): A number of objectives or challenges could be implemented; these are optional and show themselves throughout the course of the game. The reward provides incentive to complete them; however there is no penalty if they are not attempted. Examples on page 26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarcFns7SCY Map: "Banjawarn", set on Banjawarn station, scene of doomsday cult and supposed meteorite impact, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZ0s1rKkrk

Im fully OK with them ditching the normal campaign and adding zombies campaign. Im not sure many people care for normal COD campain, I couldn't care in the least if it was dropped as it holds no interest to me, always linear scripted run this way killing those that jump out crap. Zombies campain, normal MP & zombies survival. I enjoy normal MP more then the current zombies, more staying power. Though I half expecting this time it would be set in the post apocalypse, though it seems not the case.

You really want to buy the W@W maps 3 times? Activision loves you.

If it was like the der riese -> kino transition, no innovation added at all and no major additions throughout the whole BO releases (Im thinking PaP, perk bottles, traps big, not small time stuff like a new perk or new boss). I just think zombies is the ideal platform to experiment with, few will agree with me but I don't want them to play it safe and do the same gameplay over and over. They need to think about what will be funner instead of what will be harder. + Im all for a new "crew" and their story linked into that which has been done. Its time to start killing them off :P

What part of its complex? you put two guns in they average and out one comes full of ammo. Its as simple as you make it or as complex, you would have a pretty good idea what the gun will come out as but you won't know for sure until you try. Yes you'll get kids sitting in theit maths class drawing diagrams and calculating properties trying to find the ideal gun.. fuse this with that, then that, then that... but in game its not complex at all. Coding it in may well be, though it should be straight forward at least for bullet firing weapons. Thankyou. I tried to emphasise creation in the idea, the buildable defenses in the "document" was another way I tried to add this anything to prevent that rediculous running in circles. While I don't really expect much in the way of innovation this year, the following zombies will be most likely be released on the net gen consoles so hopefully the possibilities really open up then. I posted it to them in the mail haha, though the document doesn't elaborate on bloodline which was a bit of an afterthought.

I don't really know the motive behind Elite, because no, you don't pay more and they do give away more in prizes and hosting movies etc. I guess the only real way they get more money is by having all elite member buy every map whereas before they may have missed one or two. So while as it stands it no a bad thing for those that buy everything, it splits the community and that is whats detrimental. It seems very probable that Elite members will get zombie maps earlier thus friends lists will be split between elite and non-elite. MW3 has no drawcard (MP maps aren't a big deal and can be waited for) but the zombies drawcard provides a bit of adventure and discovery which will pull in a lot of memberships if it allows early access as the adventure feeling will be lost if you get in months after others, and by doing so guarantees all those now buy ALL map content just because they wanted that one map early. So it seems very likely Activation will do this. To clarify, I don't like Elite at all, not because of cost or content but the splitting between the haves and have nots in release dates. Another bad thing is Elite is outside the game, things that should be in game like stats now are contained in a seperate program! just a messy arrangement.

I made this a while ago as I was playing in radiant, I got the ground plan and building done but really couldn't impliment the effects required to make a large open map work like the darkness being used as a barrier and temporary lighting etc. So I'll just present it as a possible map location. Anyway I had made a bit of a trailer: Essentially Banjawarn was the site of a supposed meteorite impact, which was then immediately occupied by a doomsday cult whome was researching tesla doomsday weapons. They used the site to test weapons (sheep killed by sarin gas were discovered). Then departed. There was a lot of chemicals discovered at the station as well as documents in Japanese on the extraction of nuclear material from the ore (the land was rich in uranium) the area was also visited by the nuclear physicist and cult follower Hideo Murai which sources claim hes IQ was higher the Einsteins (he was later assassinated). This is all a true story and lies uncannily close to the zombie storyline. Supposedly they chose this location for the cult as in the event of an apocalypse (which they were intent on creating) it would be one of the last safe areas being so isolated. So we have the meteorite, the crazy cult, the scientists extracting nuclear materials, tesla weapons, the doomsday apocalypse.. story sound familiar? Search terms for further reading: Banjawarn station, banjawarn bang, tesla, doomsday weapons, meteorite, Aum Shinrikyo cult, Hideo Murai, tokyo sarin gas attack

Firstly the big "easter eggs" are not easter eggs at all, rather rewarded objectives. I'll go against the grain and say I don't really care at all for them and have not done most of them. I do value the small "whats that mean" easter eggs far higher so am in agreement with wunderwaffe-JZ3 regarding this. 99 point something percent of people look up the "easter egg" on youtube or wherever then follow the steps. There is no real discovery nor can there be with the millions of players. So while I value the depth they add to the maps and the wonder they create in what will the next one be, I don't see them as having any gameplay value in their current form. With all that said, the "big easter eggs" are definately not a bad thing, just a way over rated thing and over emphasised. Theres no reason to make them harder so that 0.05 percent of discovers becomes 0.005%, as its going to be on youtube within days (or hours) of release anyway. So my vote goes to numerous smaller "easter eggs" giving details, and a larger but simpler objective giving the wider story.

Thanks. I think people understand the concept but the significance and possibilities it opens up is completely lost on them, that or they just don't care enough to give it any thought. In the movie I kept it to simply averaging the stats, thus they will always be bound by the abilities that are already present. The guns wont get more powerful then the most powerful nor slower then the slowest, just the way averaging works. And there is quite a significant reward in that you get ammo refill each time, this prevents the trap in a normal "ammo machine" where one would just get the most powerful gun and keep buying ammo for it which would make for a very boring game. With bloodline the guns continually evolve for better or worse. In the document I alluded to the ability to insert multipliers into the "bloodline equation" to improve certain stats. For example if they added leveling to the game one of the rewards could be "1.2x firerate multiplier at level 10 or 1.2x damage multiplier on 2nd tier fusion at lvl 30 etc. as they couldn't give guns or perks as rewards like in MP. Just one way of expanding on the idea.

All critisism is welcomed, but I will argue my point as I really don't agree. Firstly I did make effort to insult all races and genders in the video black, white, male female.... even Einstein was grey. I used 36 standard guns in the example because that is how many I drew, this is more then any previous game and more then those likely to come. This can be toned back a bit to reality. Its MUCH more then a visual addition to the game, you're thinking too shallow about the end result and not the lead up to it. "Pack 'a Punch" as it stands is purely a "rinse and repeat" mechanism, along with some glitz and visuals, with the exception of the crossbow/b.knife all it does is make your gun as good as it was a few rounds before, yet its hailed as the most awesome thing ever. FUSION and BLOODLINE are very different from the gameplay and development point of view. FUSION, development wise is much the same as all guns made before. Gameplay wise it provides real purpose to some of the guns that have been forgotten and never seen the PaP machine and provides an avenue for producing more powerful guns that have to be worked for not just given by random chance out of a box (which as it stands I see as a flaw in game design). Fusion guns are also characterised by unique abilities that can't be done in standard guns which gives a lot more variation then the single "wonder weapon" format we've been given before. BLOODLINE is purely code/equation based there is no new gun models or animations needed, just a distinguishing texture. You can't understate the importance of being able to experiment and create, this is the reason "minecraft" is so popular, its certainly not because of visuals or compelling gameplay. Let people create things in game and it will be a big hit. Note that BLOODLINE is also in effect the ammo machine people have been asking for, but to get ammo you have to choose what to breed it with and in doing so changing its properties for better or worse. Its all complex, no question about it. But we are talking of the most popular game in history raking in what.. a billion dollars. Saying its "too hard" is no excuse. Treyarch will only act on what the community expects, makes good business sense, but if the community expects more then they are more then capable of providing.