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Richtofen Actually Good? Maxis Evil


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#1 FatedTitan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 19:11 PM

The secret songs are always sung from someone's perspective. Whether they be Samantha, the zombies, or the crew, they always are sung from the perspective of someone involved. Today, I want to bring you back a few months to something that just clicked within me today. And we must go back to the song that many disliked, but wasn't awful like Coming Home...Carrion.



Fated...why are you going back to this? It's sung from the zombies perspective. It's already been diagnosed by many. There's very little story there. I BEG TO DIFFER ON ALL POINTS! :twisted:

Listen to that song. While it could be sung from the zombies perspective, I don't believe so. We haven't had a song like that since The One. Why return to it? I don't think Kevin would bring that back. Instead, I suggest that Carrion is from the perspective of Richtofen!....nothing? You don't really care do you? Why does that matter anyways, right? Well let me help you understand what clicked in me.
 

Like a dream where I'm falling and calling out
My resistance is silent
I can feel but I still can't control myself
Please forgive me
Now
Now


Imagine that sung from Richtofen. That makes no sense. Richtofen is evil. And his quotes as the announcer still back that up. There's no way that make sense.

Well what if that wasn't Richtofen? Listen to these radios really quick.



 





So after you've listened to those, you'll notice the difference between Radio 3 and Radio 4 especially. Before Radio 4, Richtofen seems sane and a normal doctor who wants improve the human condition and help bring peace to earth. He even argues with Maxis about creating weapons for the Nazis. But in Radio 4, he seems to be a bit insane and things are different with him. Interestingly enough, he also refers to Shusta as Mr. Shusta instead of Dr. Shusta, which is what he called him leading up to the touching of the MPD. Things change. It seems that something has taken over Richtofen...a demon perhaps. I know I use this show as a reference far too often, but it's like in Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood how Ling has his body that Greed also inhabits. Greed has control while Ling sits back and let's him do what he wants because of the power he has received with it. Two souls in one body. I believe that is what has happened to Dr. Richtofen. And the lyrics seem to back this theory up. Let's look at those again.
 

Like a dream where I'm falling and calling out
My resistance is silent
I can feel but I still can't control myself
Please forgive me
Now
Now


Richtofen is in there calling out trying to get back in control, but his resistance is silent. It doesn't matter what he does, he's not strong enough to regain control of his body from this demon. He can still feel things, but he cannot control himself. The demon has control. He can't do anything to stop it. And because of this, he sees the destruction of the earth and the real Richtofen who wanted to improve the human condition comes out asking, even pleading for forgiveness. He's sorry he can do nothing to stop this demon in control.
 

Shadow, nothing
All I am
Stalking, killing
All I can


Now this is the demon. For the demon, he has control now. Richtofen is nothing but a shadow. He's nothing anymore. The demon is stalking and killing all he can.
 

I was spawned from eternal night
By infernal rite
And I need your carrion
Neurons fire when I violate
Pupils dilate
And I feel your carrion


This is also the demon talking about he comes from where it's always dark and he came into being by infernal rite. Sounds like Hell. It isn't dark in a light sense, but is dark as in it's the home of darkness.
 

I could scream but I know I won't hear myself
I'm a slave to synapses
In my dream is the sound of a lullaby
Calling me the
One
I'm undone
And they'll all run from
The chosen one 1 5


This goes back to Richtofen. He can scream all he wants for help, for the demon to stop, but he won't even be able to hear himself because the demon has control. Nothing will come out. He's a slave to synapses. In other words, the only reason the real Richtofen is even still there is because his brain is still functioning. You can't just take a soul out of the body that easily. It's like the demon's and Richtofen's soul are tied together in a way now. The real Richtofen is still attached to it. The next part seems like a shoutout to all the old secret songs, and it is in a way. But we can still look at it. In my dream is the sound of a lullaby...Lullaby of a Dead Man. Richtofen seems to be a dead man. If he gets his body back, he'll be killed. If he doesn't, he mineaswell be dead. And if you listen to Lullaby of a Dead Man, it sounds like it could be from Richtofen if you take him in this perspective.



Then, he references The One. If you listen to it, you can also see many parts that could be taken as Richtofen under the control of another. I understand Kevin has said that it was written from the Zombies perspective, but he could have easily made it fit both if he desired.



Then he references Undone and as a song with no lyrics, we can only take it for it's title. Richtofen is undone. His intentions that he had to improve the human condition will never come to fruition.

After that, he references 115, the most popular song in the zombies franchise. This one is actually REALLY interesting because we've always seen it sung from Sam's perspective, and it is in a sense, but it could also be from Richtofen's perspective within his body not able to do anything.



My suggestion would be when Elena sings, listen to it as Richtofen, then when the more screaming Elena sings, take that as the demon. It's actually quite interesting how all of this is tying together in ways I didn't even see it when I started this post. And something I think you have to notice in this song is the underlying, background male voice when Elena is singing.

Now back to more Carrion.
 

Vermin martyr
Just as planned
Asking
Why must I be damned


The most interesting part of this is how demonic the voice of Clark Nova gets for this part. It's almost as if he's the demon yelling at Richtofen. Richtofen in a sense is a martyr, sacrificing his body for this demon's purpose. Imagine a demon screaming at the soul of the body he's occupying "You vermin martyr! This is going just as planned! Now stop asking 'Why must I be damned?'!" Richtofen is sorrowful. Why must he be the one doing this? He doesn't want this.

There's more to the song that can be seen as sung from the demon's perspective. I think the things we must question is this:

1. Who is this demon?
2. I suggested yesterday that Hell's Retriever could refer to Maxis and Richtofen could refer to Hell's Redeemer due to their matching colors. Could Richtofen really be the Redeemer of the situation and save the world? Could he gain control back and take the zombies out?

So if Richtofen is good deep down, could Maxis be the evil one. You've heard from me countless times how the radio in TranZit tells of someone wanting to destroy this planet and kill everyone, but then mentions that the one he is yelling at speaks through electronics(Maxis). Could Maxis actually be the more evil of the two. Could inner Richtofen have a plan that the demon does not know about? Blue has always represented good and red/orange evil. Could this hold true even in this situation?

So that's what I have left you to dwell on today. PLEASE comment and give me feedback. I'm a glutton for people's comments and love to see people reading and giving their thoughts. It's a fault of mine. :roll: So thanks for reading and I hope to see your comments!


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#2 tinasrob

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 19:38 PM

Wow. Very interesting. You should put this in your best threads
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#3 PINNAZ

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:27 AM

Another solid observation & topic Mr Titan. You sure are wearing those Cyan robes well this month. 

The songs do tell so much about the story & with any art it can be interpreted in many ways. It's good to read your perspective & relating each song or lyric to different characters. The change in Richtofen's character is interesting through the Radio Transmissions. Well pointed out ther mate. 

I like how you bring up Full Metal Alchemist.

I know I use this show as a reference far too often, but it's like in Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood how Ling has his body that Greed also inhabits. Greed has control while Ling sits back and let's him do what he wants because of the power he has received with it. Two souls in one body. I believe that is what has happened to Dr. Richtofen.


The plot sure does have a lot of similarities to the zombie story. Though I don't know much about the manga series or movie, there is a spin-off which talks about Shangri-la aswell isn't there?

The MotD Pach-a-punch Camo also looks like some of the symbols from that series. MixMasterNut brought up the point that it looks like 'Alchemy Transmutaion Circles. With the PC version being released today we shall get a good look at the PaP textures.


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Transmutation circles are what alchemists use to perform alchemy

(I don't know the meaning of different colours?)

some links about FMA -
http://www.personal....228/essay2.html

https://en.wikipedia...metal_Alchemist

Edward and Alphonse Elric are two alchemist brothers searching for the legendary catalyst called the Philosopher's Stone, a powerful object which would allow them to recover their bodies (which were lost in an attempt to bring their mother back to life through alchemy). 

After their mother's death, Edward became determined to bring her back through the use of alchemy, an advanced science in which objects can be created from raw materials. They researched Human Transmutation, a forbidden art in which one attempts to create or modify a human being.



Sorry if this is too far off topic. Keep em coming' Fated!
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#4 FatedTitan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 15:50 PM

I'm extremely interested to see those camos now haha! Thanks for the kind remarks both of you!
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#5 DeathBringerZen

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 15:57 PM

Yeah, great post again Fated, and one that I am sure is probably correct.

Either way, I am definitely convinced that Richtofen IS the lesser of two evil's in this tale of twists and turns.

Maxis is the bad guy!
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#6 GRILL

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 19:28 PM

very nice post, fated.

Really interesting how you brought in "Undone", makes me think that the whole story starting from Nacht was "undone". Which in turn makes me wonder if the story was actually "done", and how this may be involved with breaking the cycle.

I have long thought Richtofen to be bipolar, or under possession - as I have seen outlined in many videos. I think you are totally spot on that he was changed after touching the MPD. He was a logical doctor with a fairly monotone vocal intonation, and then suddenly, he's a Van Wilder-esque maniac with a vocal intonation that could be described as flamboyant AT LEAST. "DEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAR DIARY" I think says it all.

Chances are the human side of Richtofen was unable to compete with the presence inside of the MPD, thus giving it total control of his "carrion" (dead or decaying flesh of animal). Now when people hear dead or decaying flesh, they immediately think zombie - I'm going to contest that and point you a different part of the description for "carrion"... the use of the word animal.

To me, the use of the word "animal" goes hand in hand with the MPD presence calling a human "vermin". If you've seen the Matrix, you've seen how Mr. Smith describes the human race - as a parasite, a disease... to paraphrase, he saw the human race as vermin.

Fated, you've really cracked a window and I can smell the fresh air of theory. I need to think on this all some more, and I'll get back to you. Awesome thread.
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#7 RequixEclipse

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 20:21 PM

Fated....I do believe I 1uped in the lower quarters. This is a very nice thread! Good work my friend!
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#8 Scoldon

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 16:43 PM

I don't think that this song is about Richtofen. I know Mob of the Dead came AFTER Green Run, but I think the song is about Brutus. He feels, but he can't control himself. He was spawned by Lucifer to stop the crew and lock the perks down. He says he's sorry for what he does. I think it's about Brutus, even if this song existed before Mob of the Dead.
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#9 FatedTitan

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:28 AM

Very possible Scoldron. I'll have to think about it some more. Thanks for all the great responses guys!
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#10 Electric Jesus

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

One thing you need to keep in mind is that richtofen still has his personality intact after touching the MPD. Of course he wasn't exactly bathing in spleens in his early days, (his personality is greatly exaggerated) but he does seem to have some level of self-awareness in-game. His actions might still not be his own, but he is still conscious to a degree, contrary to how you describe it as "total control." Unless by some coincidence this demonic force also likes spleens. ;)

One possibility is that his being under the control of a demon could be a metaphor for some mental illness triggered by contact with the MPD. He could be bound in his body, witnessing a second personality take over as ge struggles to conquer his mental illness and undo what his evil side has done. By that idea, the voices aren't actually some omnipotent force looming over him; he really is just insane.

But yes, i totally think the song is from eddie's perspective. To you sir i say bravo!
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#11 FatedTitan

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 16:41 PM

One thing you need to keep in mind is that richtofen still has his personality intact after touching the MPD. Of course he wasn't exactly bathing in spleens in his early days, (his personality is greatly exaggerated) but he does seem to have some level of self-awareness in-game. His actions might still not be his own, but he is still conscious to a degree, contrary to how you describe it as "total control." Unless by some coincidence this demonic force also likes spleens. ;)

One possibility is that his being under the control of a demon could be a metaphor for some mental illness triggered by contact with the MPD. He could be bound in his body, witnessing a second personality take over as ge struggles to conquer his mental illness and undo what his evil side has done. By that idea, the voices aren't actually some omnipotent force looming over him; he really is just insane.

But yes, i totally think the song is from eddie's perspective. To you sir i say bravo!



Was looking over some things and noticed this great response and wanted to respond. Sorry for necro haha.

Richtofen doesn't change automatically when touching the MPD. But he does start hearing voices immediately. I would state that the possession was a gradual thing and by the time he arrived back in Germany, he was fully possessed. Obviously, some of him is still there, but the sane, doctor side of him is hidden within, unable to escape and take control.
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#12 SkylinexBleedsxRed

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 20:27 PM

I love this thread. I've never believed that Edward was the bad guy. Maxis was such a jerk to him. He never appreciated him or his efforts. Everyone thinks that Samantha has issues and is a demon child or whatever, but look at her father. He's a real a-hole. LoL I have always believed Edward to be the fall guy. I think that Maxis was more involved with the creation of the zombies, not Edward. He had tried to stop them, obviously. He was trying to do good by research and development; not be involved with the creation of super soldiers aka the zombies.
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#13 Tasty Applesauce

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:33 AM

I'm not really sure either of them could be considered good, but I would consider him to be the lesser of two evils and would rather take his chaotic sadistic personality over Maxis' apparent lust for total annihilation and destruction.
Maxis is the liar, the deceiver who see's people as nothing more than tools to help him carry out his goals. Probably the only other human he actually felt anything for was his daughter but she was taken from him so what is left? He's a genius sociopathic psycho who has taken advantage of every character that has ever given him the benefit of a doubt and completely turned it on them. First he gets's the O4 to nuke the Earth and now he has the N4 helping him gain control of the Aether, I think its really a showing of true colors with what he does to Richtofin. He subjects him to die over and over again in a body of rotting flesh, making him cease to exist or just killing him off for good would be too easy, Maxis wants not just Richtofin, but all of us to suffer.
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